I have now cancelled my pre-order for Rogue Trader and picked up a SHADOWRUN 20th Anniversity Edition from CATALYST GAMES - It is great - Check it out.

FFG really need to get a grip of customer service and realistic release dates.

DW.

Sorry, Shadowrun just doesn't float my boat. Elves and Orks might work fine for space operas and science fantasy settings, but not cyberpunk.

Some things are just worth waiting for Orks and Elves on a space freighter are definately two of them!

DENZ said:

Good. We didn't want you to play anyway.

Now go home and grow a pair. The game will come out in due time.

There are many better games out there than Shadowrun. For one, you could have chosen "Chutes and Ladders" and it would have been more impressive.

It would, however, be nice to know when RT is coming out. We are all eagerly waiting.

Curiously enough I was determined to run either a Rogue Trader game or Shadowrun game this (academic) year. After a great Dark Heresy campaign last year I opted for Rogue Trader and am still holding out for the books to arrive in my FLGS before the start of term, from what I hear on the designer diaries I should be able to run most of what I need for the first few sessions from the seat on my pants and a solid grounding in DH.

So yeah, while there are massive differences between the two games, I think some of the venom towards Shadowrun is maybe a little misdirected, I think they're both good games which occupy very different but in many ways similar nieces in the rpg market.

But you made it this far on waiting for Rogue Trader, and your dropping your order now? It's like making it to 3rd base in baseball and going "Bah! Home is just too far away from here!"

Well, IS there any sort of release date, firm or flaccid, other than "sometime in September"?

The game's been printed. We know that because a few lucky people who went to GenCon got a copy.

You can't blame us for being impatient. It's not like they gave us any sort of excuse why it's not on the shelves yet or a firm date on when it will be.

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the "Designer Diary" teasers on how to play the game when I can't have one. I'm not three years old. If you show me the lolly, lick it a couple times and keep exclaiming "Oh, doesn't the lolly taste good?!?" while not letting me have one, I'm likely to shove the lolly up your....

While I like Shadowrun.... Okay, that's nice.

Granted, I'm probably going to think about buying anything else from Fantasy Flight after this, doubly though Amazon (which is actually pretty good if they HAVE the books) but I'm still going to wait for the game at this point.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

So you're a three year-old with the body of an adult? Didn't your mother tell you that patience is a virtue?

The game will be out when it's out and until then, enjoy the tidbits that are posted. They would post those exact same "designer diaries" whether or not the sold a limited amount of copies at GenCon. It's fun and interesting to get additional perspective on the book's contents.

Your whining isn't going to change the release date of the game, or anything else for that matter. Except for everyone's perception of you.

Psion said:

I've pre-ordered FFG books from Amazon several times for the discount and when its been out a week and they haven't sent it to me, I send them a polite email pointing out that the book, has infact, been released and why haven't they shipped it. I'm usually too busy with work and whatnot to care about getting the book a few weeks after its release and its nice to save the green as well.

Cervantes3773 said:

Again, spoken like someone who's already got a copy.

I'm sure the game will be good and I'm definately going to buy a copy, but business is business and as a customer I have a right to express my dissatisfaction in hopes that this doesn't become a ongoing problem with this company.

FFG may not realize it, but printing articles on how to creat Characters and complete Endeavors and build starships while very interesting ...is antagonizing to their customers who CANNOT obtain a copy because it simply isn't available yet.

I don't need more hype. I need the game. It's pretty hard for the majority of us who don't have a copy to participate in the fun and entertaining gaming discussion when WE DON'T HAVE THE GAME. Simply put, I (and most likely the majority of the forum readers who don't have a copy) feel left out on the fun. How does this make me a juvenile whiner?

Is it too much to ask to simply let us know the PROGRESS on shipping the thing?!? Just because I didn't fork out $100 bones for the "Collector's Edition" (which hasn't shipped yet either to my knowledge) I don't have the right to pester FFG for a release date or at least some update? I think not, so bite me, Cervantes.

...at least I didn't cancel my order and buy Shadowrun!

Maxim C. Gatling said:

... But you know, it has been an ongoing problem with this company. The problem being that FFG has been overly ambitious about their release dates. (remember the "knowledge is power" pdf? How many products stated to come out actually did came out for their anticipated release dates?)

But with Rogue Trader it has been written "Fall 2009" for quite some time now. And considering how they have manage to sell off a few copies at Gen Con (which was clearly a publiciy stunt and not actually an official release) I think we can expect the books at... Fall 2009! (like promised!)

So in this regard, it has been an ongoing problem, but it has actually been rectified!

Maxim C. Gatling said:

It makes you a juvenile whiner because instead of being an adult, writing them a letter/email with your complaint, and participating in these threads in a positive manner, you cry and whine at every step about how you didn't get your copy yet. It's "agonizing" because they're publishing the RPG equivalent of movie trailers? Seriously? Step back for a minute and think about your reaction to that. It's a game.

For the record, I'd tell you to man up whether or not I got a copy at GenCon. Being frustrated and writing the company is one thing, continually complaining in a public forum is just bad form.

I see what you're saying. I see where giving us a firm release date can bite them in the butt. But they must know it's incredibly aggravating for us to go from that to virtually no release date. "Fall 2009" is virtually no release date when it's already Fall 2009.

Here's what would make me happy (and get me to shut up):

FFG Ross or other moderator posts a date when they will at least know when shipping should occur (barring unforseen difficulties). An un-firm date if you will.

How about "Everything is going well in the warehouse and we expect you'll get it before X." (giving themselves a healthy week or two "Scotty" time, so if they come early they look like heroes).

The "cover our butts until October 31st" approach doesn't work very well. Hey, I can understand if UPS goes on strike or the printers has a problem or whatever, but the "you'll get it when you get it" doesn't sit well.

I'm used to GW release dates, where they tell you what's going to be on the shelves next month . They don't always hit the mark, but close enough.

And Cervantes, go stuff your dice up your ass. Check my posts. 99% of them are positive, game related discussions totally unrelated to the Release Date (or lack thereof). Unlike Mr. Shadowrun (who's post I'm replying to) I'm a fan, not a hater.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

I think some serious introspection is in order if you lose your cool this easily.

troll tread successful

ffg forums are remarkably civil for the internet, so lets try to remember that insults and speaking in bold are rarely product, if highly satisfying.

For those with the book; the reason people are so annoyed at the lack of release date is that the game looks so good we can't wait to get our hands on it. The teaser are, well teasing us, and now are chomping at the bit. Good job FFG, you magnificent bastards.

Lastly, the fact that it was available at gencon really means nothing. A limited print run with no distribution is much easier than a mass printing with internation distribution.

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly someone had mentioned that FFG Ross had written somewhere that it would be shipping out at the end of September. It may be no "The things are gonna ship on September 20th", and sure it kinda sucks to have pre-ordered the Collectors and not have it before the few people who were able to snag a copy at GenCon, but it's a continuation of the 40k universe and you know the saying, 'The ones you can hurt the most are the ones that you can love the most'. I'd gather since where here we love the game in some fashion so it really can make us irate when things don't go how we want or think.

Personally, I'll keep on having fun with Dark Heresy till my copy rolls up to my door like some overdue and thought to be missing in the Warp Rogue Trader ship that I'll enjoy heartily and forget promptly why I was concerned in the first place.

Cervantes3773 said:

What did you expect when you start flinging personal insults at him because he dared express his displeasure at the release date? Who died and made you Forum Moderator?

When you cast aspersions to his sexual preferences, of course he's going to retaliate by suggesting an unimaginative and uncomfortable place to stuff your Greater Daemon of Khorne miniature. YOU started a flame-war and YOU are the one who looks bad. You've got big balls telling people off who don't have the book when you already have one . It's like telling the kids not to whine because they're hungry, dinner will be on the table when you're good and ready, meanwhile you're finishing off a bowl of ice cream dessert. Makes you look like a ******, which is a shame as your posts are normally quite good.

Maxim, if you're reading this, take out the bitter for baby Emperor's sake! We want the FFG Mods to feel like they're in a safe and secure environment. If you're the same Maxim Gatling from the PlanetSide Forums, then I don't have to explain what I mean when I say we don't want a repeat. You're a good poster, but when you get a bug up your butt you can be a real jackass.

So, kiss-kiss and make nice. Don't do it for yourselves, do it for the rest of us.

By the way, the release date is Friday, Sept 25th . Assuming they don't push it back again. I went to the game store today and my local merchant said the distributor said that FFG told them the 25th. While hardly "official", it is there job to know these things and one can easily see where FFG would tell their distributor and not us.

I see Maxim is already trying to make nice on http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=123&efcid=3&efidt=193015&efpag=1

So Cervantes, do the right thing. or the wrong thing, I don't care as long as you both shut up. I don't come in here for insults, I come in here for the love of the hobby.

You guys that own the book, I totally understand you're excited and want to talk about it. I don't blame you, in fact, I want to join you. So understand that when guys like Max say they don't feel included, the vast unwashed masses of us know where he's coming from, so give us a break.

So two weeks give or take (knock on wood)...I'm marking the calendar!

I can understand that DENZ canceled hier pre-order (was thinking about that myself). The products from FFG are really good but their customer relation politics are horrible and the only thing i as custom can show me displeasure about their actions would be to cancel since they seem to be very resistant to demands in the forum, but maybe that will change with Sam Stewart who knows. Its just not acceptable for me that FFG is pushing the relase dates further back and back without saying why. I dont even care if they do but i want to be taken serious and told why the cant ship the books. Just tell me "Our warehouse burned down we have to reprint, it will take 2 additional monhts" and im ok but dont let me stand waiting in the rain. Just a little bit information PLEASE !

Cervantes3773 said:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

While I am in the position of someone with the book, I have frequently been in the position of the people waiting. This was my first year at GenCon, and I was barely able to organize things properly given how rarely I attend Cons. So, trust me, I know what its like to be the one waiting for the tantalizing release that everyone is talking about and half the internet who isn't you seems to own a copy of....

I've been through release blunders far worse than Knowledge is Power' s optimism or the slight nudges to when in the fall the core comes out. And trust me, they are slight nudges. For example, in early-ish 2007, White Wolf conceived of a limited run supplement for Exalted as a holiday release to say "thank you" to their fans. It wasn't put on the market until May the next year. And it still had editing problems that make anything I've ever seen in the 40k RPG look like canonized gospel.

The thing about that story, though....when I finally got what I'd been waiting so long for? I was able to forgive the wait, because it was a fun and exciting change to the way I gamed. Sure, I was annoyed about the remaining errors. And yes, I still occasionally gripe about the wait on forums ....

But I don't condemn WW. I thank them. Because they put themselves in the line of fire for any fan with a grudge to take potshots at, and still continue to make products I like, and to care about what their fans want.

So, back to the topic of Rogue Trader and FFG, I think we should take a moment to think about what an awesome feeling it is going to be when the book is finally released. I'm even looking forward to it myself, so I can get more copies for my group, and have more open discussions here on the forums. Someone else pointed out something people should take note of--if you're angry about not having a thing, chances are its because recognize how awesome it will be to finally get it.

Could one of you disgruntled potential customers with an ego issue please cancle your collectors edition so I can buy one?