was it a bigger stretch going from 3e D&D to 4e, or will it be a bigger stretch going from 2e wfrp to the 3e version?

I'm just talking from a 4e D&D perspective, but when I played 4e, truthfully ,I didnt have a clue what was going on imagination wise. everybody had all these new powers and stuff but I couldnt picture anything. " Iron butt strike" was the same as "flaming balls of pain". back in the old days when some body threw out a lightning bolt or a hold spell you knew what was going on. you could imagine it.

Is Whfrp going to be like this? a bunch of cards with crazy names that all boil down to a hit point rodeo, with some sliding and shifting here and there? From what I have seen so far, besides the abrupt change of the resolution system, wfrp v3 looks pretty modest by comparison. it looks like a solid attempt to be warhammer.

chojun said:

I've found 4th Ed much more fun to play than 3rd (and 3.5). They were just so unwieldy, combat dragged, especially if you had nothing to do and you really needed to understand the micro rules to the nth degree to ring some kind of fun out of it. I'm not a powergamer and didn't like ubering up my character. 4th, to me is really cinematic and classes have nice ways of playing and once players start working together tactically then encounters are enjoyable and a breeze to play. Never needed to create play aids as I didn't really find it too difficult to remember my skills.

I think 3rd ed WFPG is going to be similar, it's a huge shift from the original rpgs to a new style of rpg centered around cards and dice pools rather than the d% and huge array of careers that we're used to. This is something that I have issues with. I love 2nd Ed and I guess I don't like the change. Yes, I don't have to play 3rd ed, but FFG have stopped creating resources for 2nd. Sure I can create my own, google user made adventures but i like the real mccoy. I feel, that's moving away from the warhammer world, especially with the class system. There's not really a downside to going to any class yuo want, so long as you meet the race for the class. Sure it'll cost you in Advance Points but that's it. A Trollslayer can go an be a Merchant if he feels like it. In Warhammer lore a Trollslayer only has 2 options - glorious death or become a Giantslayer. They've brought shame upon themselves that is so great that they must seek to offset that shame that by killing the biggest, nastiest things they can find or die drying. There is NO other option for the Slayer.

My 2 cents

Casamyr said:

I call shenanigans on this.

I seriously doubt it.

Casamyr said:

Actually, in 2e any PC could spend 200xp and switch to a Basic career, which includes a Trollslayer changing to a different Basic career. So, it's not much different in 3e. We also don't know if there are any requirements or prerequisities for careers, which might be in addition to advance costs. It has always been more a matter for Roleplaying the career change, than the rules restricting the players.

dvang said:

True. I completely forgot about that. I haven't played 2nd for a while. We must of house ruled it to stay in theme. If you rolled a Slayer, you weren't allowed to spend the 200xp to swap career. Lots of enjoyment of our slayer trying for glorious death, but being too good to die.

I would say that the change from 3e to 4e D&D was actually a smaller stretch. They still use the D20 system, but instead of having only strength as a hit modifier (or Dex with Weapon Finesse), they utilized abilities in order to have it so various stats could affect the to hit right off.

AC still ascends, and HP works similar, though it is set instead of random...normally to the average or higher average of what a die roll would have given them (for example 6 HP if the character would have rolled a d10 for HP previously). They still have Fort, Will, and REF saves that at least look the same, if arrived at differently, and everyone now levels up via how they would in epic rules in 3e (+1BAB and +1 to saves every other level instead of varying levels).

Hence I'd say the bigger stretch by FAR is in 2e to 3e Warhammer. A like comparison would be as in maybe 1e D&D to 4e D&D which is a pretty big stretch. Looking at GW games perhaps it would be more apt as to looking at Heroquest (which used symbols on dice to resolve things) to Advanced Heroquest or Warhammer Quest (stats based more on percentages, a system more akin to WFRP, etc), though it would ironically be in the opposite direction (moving to using symbols instead of away from using dice symbols).

chojun said:

D&D 4e is a solid attempt to be D&D. I suspect WFRP 3e will use many of 4e's more successful concepts in helping to streamline the game and make gameplay more fun.