1. I only can play a card into shadows only once in phase right? One in Plot, one in draw, one in marshaling and so on?

2 I play Lanni with Agenda "City of Shadows". I can play a card into shadows ie. Barristan Selmy. I want to bring him out of Shadows. What's total cost to do this? 3 Gold or 5 gold?

1. You can bring one card out of shadows each phase (one in the plot phase, one in the marshalling phase, etc.)

2. You must pay 2 gold to play him into shadows and 3 more to bring him out (his gold cost is 2 and the penalty is 1). 5 gold in total.

Kuba said:

You have to pay 2 gold to play a card into Shadows from your hand. You can only play non-event cards from your hand during your turn of the Marshaling phase. So you can only play a card into Shadows during your turn of the Marshaling phase. However, you can play as many cards into Shadows as you want during the Marshaling phase. You can only bring one card out of Shadows per phase, at the very beginning of the phase.

Just to be clear on this: Putting cards into Shadows is like playing a character or location. You can only do it at one time during the game (unless you have some other card effect). You can only take a Shadows card out of your hand and put it face-down in the Shadows area of the table during your turn of Marshaling, and only then if you pay 2 gold to do it. At no other time can you play a card into Shadows.

The previous answer (and the timing in the question) are for bringing cards out of Shadows.

Kuba said:

To bring a card out of Shadows, you pay the part of the cost after the "s". If you are playing with the Agenda and the card in question is "House X only" from a different House, add 1 to that cost.

Bringing a card out of Shadows is a "put into play" game effect, The out-of-House gold penalty does not apply to "put into play" card or game effects.

ktom said:

Of course during setup it's also possible.

Rogue30 said:

Technically, you are not playing cards from your hand during Setup, so the point still stands, but yes; putting cards into Shadows can be part of the 5 gold worth of cards you lay out during Setup.

Syrio Forel

He win, he goes to shadows. Is he knelt in Shadows?

Kuba said:

The short answer is "no."

The detailed answer is that "standing/kneeling has no meaning for cards in Shadows." Since a card in Shadows is not in play, standing/kneeling has no more meaning in Shadows than it does in your discard pile, dead pile, deck or hand. And cards always come into play standing, so even if it was considered knelt when it went into Shadows, it would be standing when it came out again, whether there had been a Standing phase or not. Of course, this is all general treatment of cards that are not in play. FFG could always make a card or effect that would create meaning for the standing/kneeling status of cards in Shadows (or any other out-of-play area), but they haven't so far.

1:Can i lower the cost of a card that come out from shadows? Example: marshaling phase: i take "the queen of thorns" from shadows. Can I lower the cost to 0 with "Stormlands Fieldoms"?

2: playing a card of another house out of shadows has a gold penalty?

Thanks

Carnemark said:

No. You can not brring out of Shadows a card of another House. Unles You have agenda that allows to do tsih but with +1 Gold Cost.

Carnemark said:

The short answer is "No."

The long answer is that both the mechanical definition of bringing cards out of Shadows and the timing prevents it:

Mechanical Definition: The primary reason you can't reduce the cost to bring a card out of Shadows is that bringing a card out of Shadows is considered a "put into play" mechanic. All the reducers (like the Fiefdoms, Streets, Seas, etc.) reducing the cost to "play" a card. "Put into play" and "play" are different mechanics, so none of the reducers apply to the mechanics for bringing cards out of Shadows.

Timing: Even if bringing a card out of Shadows was considered "playing" a card, you still couldn't do it. Reducers are triggered effects. That means you need a Player Action Window in order to trigger it before lowering the cost to play a character, right? Well, cards are always brought out of Shadows at the beginning of the phase (i.e., during the "start phase" framework action window) before any Player Actions can be used . So the timing will never work out because by the time you can trigger a reducer, you are beyond the opportunity to bring cards out of Shadows for that phase. Sort of a lasting effect that doesn't end at the end of the phase (all reducers currently do), the timing will NEVER work out for a triggered effect to lower the cost to bring something out of Shadows. Only a constant effect (like Hidden Chambers) can do it.

Carnemark said:

I have to correct Kuba's wording a little bit here. To date, all Shadows cards are "House X only." There is no rule preventing you from bringing an out-of-House card out of Shadows, but there is a rule preventing you from putting OOH Shadows cards in your deck in the first place. That's the great thing about the "City of Shadows" Agenda - it lets you build those "House X only" cards into a deck for any House.

For example, a Greyjoy player could never build Tyrion Lannister (or any other OOH Shadows card) into their deck unless they were using the Agenda. But if the Greyjoy player used Balon Greyjoy's ability to "steal" Tyrion from a Lannister player and put him into Shadows, there is nothing in the rules preventing him from bringing Tyrion out of Shadows, Agenda or not.

As for the original question, the +2 OOH gold penalty is only paid when you "play" an OOH card. That means the same mechanical definition that prevents you from using reducers to bring a card out of Shadows also protects you from having to pay the OOH gold penalty.

So that Greyjoy player who stole Tyrion with Balon would only pay Tyrion's regularly printed "non-s" cost to put Tyrion into play from Shadows. The OOH gold penalty is not paid. A player using the Agenda must pay a +1 gold penalty to "put into play" from Shadows any card with a "House X only" restriction from a different House (and just the +1, no additional +2 for OOH), but this gold penalty is not considered an OOH gold penalty.

Now i got it! thanks Kuba and Katom!

One more queston.

When card come out of Shadows in Dominance? Before player claim power for Dominance or after?

Kuba said:

Before. Shadows is at present, by the rules, the very first thing that happens each phase. So yes, that Syrio Forel you just returned to shadows in the challenge phase can indeed pop out standing again for dominance to help you win it.

ktom said:

A question about Syrio Forel: let's say that my opponent is the first player and he plays Lannister. I win a challenge with Syrio Forel and my opponent (who is the first player) plays A Lannister Pays His Debts killing Syrio. At this point can I activate Syrio's response and return him to the shadows before he goes to the death pile?

Normally I would say no, but shadow mechanic maybe works different in this case...

Another question about shadows and in particular the new Margary Tyrell (RESPONSE: after a card comes out of the shadows, choose a non-LADY character. Until the end of the phase treat that character as if its printed text box was blank). Does Margaery blank even the traits?

I have this question in mind because on cards that blanks (like Milk of the Poppy or Renly's courtier) it's specifically written that they DON'T blank traits. But on Margaery's text that is not written, so I assume she can take away the KING trait from a Robb Stark in order to make my Robert Baratheon do his stuff, or blank a RAVEN trait so that Carrion Bird cannot re-shuffle my White Raven and so on. that's because I am assuming that TRAITS are part of the text box.

Am I right?

thorin_81 said:

Well, ktom lastly said that it's strange to treat "leaving play to shadows" different

Maybe FAQ should be updated to read:

Out of play states are the dead pile, the discard pile, a player’s hand, a player’s deck, and shadows area .

thorin_81 said:

No. FAQ says that card abilities refers to anything in a card's text box, except for traits, keywords, and flavor text.

These helper texts (e.g. "Limit 1 Limited Response per round." can make more confusion than helping. But that's my private opinion.

Rogue30 said:

But this question has nothing to do with that. This is just a basic timing question. Syrio's ability is a Response. You can't trigger a Response that doesn't use the words "save" or "cancel" until after the previous effect is completely resolved. So ALPHD kills Syrio and he is "all the way dead" before you can trigger his "return to Shadows" Response. Triggering it won't change the fact that he is dead or undo the kill, so in the end, it doesn't matter whether you can return him to Shadows or not. He's already dead. This would only work if his ability specifically said "instead of being killed."

Rogue30 said:

You are giving the definition of "card ability." But Margaery does not blank "card abilities" - she blanks "card text," so this definition does not apply. Keywords, traits, etc. are all part of the text box. So yes, since Margaery does not say "except for traits," any that are printed on the card (since she only blanks printed text) go away. (Note that any trait a card gains from something like Old Nan is not printed and will not be blanked.

ktom said:

Sorry, my mistake

thank you so much! Understood!