So I was looking at some of the new promos and something caught my attention. Namely the most broken discard I think I have ever seen in the game... if it’s worded the way it was actually intended to be. The card states:

“R (5+): After your opponent reveals any number of cards from their hand they must discard 1 card.”

Did we forget that the sequence of events when playing a card goes:

Reveal the card
Make the check
Add to card pool

Does this actually mean that every single time you play any card, Kisheri can force you to discard, and then an extra time when she attacks? I know she has an 18 vitality, but 3 hand size against a 7 hand size character seems a little rough when almost all the anti-discard in the game has just been effectively banned.

If this is working as intended I’m in awe. If it isn’t she badly needs an errata.

You know, I think the guys that test this stuff out missed that one. Most people tend to forget that ruling. I think the intent is if they reveal due to a card effect, but we might actually have a need for errata on this.

Wasn't Hata playing a Kisheri deck or something at World's? Shouldn't he have noticed that (unless he too forgot the ruling)?

I had asked Hata about it and he said that Kisheri only triggers off of card effects.

Yes, and that may be true and the intent of the card. But that is not how it is written, and what is actually written on the card is what matters, until they make an "Official" ruling or Errata.

maybe something like when playing a card it isn't "revealed from your hand" but it is placed from your hand (hidden zone) into a transitional zone (public knowledge zone).

It becomes known but it is not "revealed from hand" it goes from hand to a revealed zone.

Legacy Kisheri with shinobi is still dumb though. Specially if first turn is PotM, Shinobi, Shinobi. 2nd turn do SSS loop for lawls

Nothing a simple functional errata can't correct.

But awesome catch. You should become a playtester lol

Smazzurco said:

page 29. section 8.1.1

to attempt to play a card, a player reveals it from their hand.

yeah thats is really interesting actually...

But its a simple fix all that needs to be done is errata it to say when your opponent reveals cards due to a card effect then.....

kiit said:

Word.

But i have seen antigoth and others answer questions frequently with "play it like this for now, and it will be fixed in the next AGR"

So maybe that would get changed in the next AGR.

To advance the discussion.....say Kisheri is errata'd or AGR changed so that when a card is played, she cannot respond.....what about reversals? Is she "meant" to be able to force a discard on the opponent announcing a reversal? (this is different than playing a card, as it is technically 'R, reveail a reversasl from your hand: play said reversal" or something like that

I'd say this all depends on the errata that is given to the card. If it says 'reveals due to your card effect' then a reversal would not trigger. If it says 'reveals due to a card effect' then it doesn't...

Now, hopefully the wording is done right so the difference between cost and effect is respected, we are having troubles with that elsewhere ^^

How they errata it will be to match the intent of the card, which is probably to work in combination with played effects, and not the players standard process for playing cards.

- dut

dutpotd said:

Eh either way again, when I had asked Hata about this, I was told that "She only triggers off of card effects, not the game mechanics"

also note: kisheri is NOT legal yet as she has not been distrubuted? or were they given during pre-release

Hayamachop said:

Pulled from booster packs. like alot of other promo cards (like the UK team asset I pulled from a pack)

I heard they were given out at UK Nats

Functional Errata for Kisheri -

R(5+): After your opponent reveals any number of cards from their hand due to the cost or effect of a card, they must discard 1 card.

Please note that the revealing a card to play it is not a cost of the card, but part of the core game rules.

This is official - the errata documents and omni-faq will be updated with it when time permits.

dutpotd said:

Please note - This is what the AGR has to say about reversals:

8.3.4 The Reversal Step

The Reversal Step happens after damage has been resolved, and gives the defender an opportunity to play special attacks called Reversals.
8.3.4.1 If a complete or partial block effect was generated, the defender may play the Reversal Response.
8.3.4.2 Playing a Reversal follows all of the normal steps in playing a card from hand (See 8.1 Playing cards from hand).

Section 8.1 reveals a card as a game rule, not as a card effect.

(For those of you just reading the most recent page - Functional Errata was issued on the previous page)

Antigoth said:

2.14.2.7 Reversal
Reversal: (Response) - R Reveal this card from your hand: After an opponent’s
attack has resolved, if a player with this card successfully blocked the attack, he
may immediately attempt to play this attack from his hand, proceeding as if he
played a regular attack. Once this attack has resolved, his opponent continues
with his Combat Phase. A player may only attempt to play one Reversal per
attack. (See 8.0 The Combat Phase for more information on playing cards and
resolving attacks.)

the cost of reversal is to reveal it (which would trigger Kisheri unless reversal's cost (revealing it) isn't applicable anymore)

kiit said:

Not applicable anymore as revealing it was part of playing it. This is being cleaned up in the next AGR revision.

2.14.2.7 was basically a copy / paste out of the old rules, and was done before we formalized the transition zone.

With the implementation of the transition zone, the reversal is revealed when it goes into the transition zone. At that point is the window to negate the R. If it's negated it's returned from the Transitional zone to the hand.

isnt the main reason to reveal the card to show that you have a reversal? (just as you show your hand if you have none of that B.Jenet attack that forces your opponent to toss 2 cards)

Hayamachop said:

Pretty much. Hence revealing the card to play "during the reversal step", which there never used to be, facilitates the exact same thing.

so wait...to clarify

When playing a card as a form, kisheri CANNOT react.

When your opponent plays a reversal, Kisheri ________ react.

Fill in the blank with can or cannot please.

lol, thanks

Smazzurco said:

When playing a card from hand as a form, react, enhance, or block, Kisheri cannot react unless part of the cost or effect of the card being played is to reveal the card. Part of the game mechanic of playing a card is to reveal the card being played. Kisheri CANNOT respond to a game mechanic, only to a cost or an effect printed on a card.

When a player plays a reversal, unless there is an additional cost of revealing the hand, the revealing the reversal is considered part of playing the reversal, which is a game mechanic, and not a printed card effect.

So to fill in the blank

CANNOT