There isn't power creep. FFG gives the new ships roles by making them different, not more powerful.

The only OT ship that's weak is the X-wing and that's because it's a Wave I ship and the design priorities were different then.

When a new product wholly supplants an older one that fulfills the exact same function, you have power creep. I would say the B-Wing almost universally replacing the X-Wing is a fair example of power creep, but that's limited to generics, and luckily one of the few instances I can cite.

There isn't power creep. FFG gives the new ships roles by making them different, not more powerful.

The only OT ship that's weak is the X-wing and that's because it's a Wave I ship and the design priorities were different then.

When a new product wholly supplants an older one that fulfills the exact same function, you have power creep. I would say the B-Wing almost universally replacing the X-Wing is a fair example of power creep, but that's limited to generics, and luckily one of the few instances I can cite.

This. The E wing did not surpass the X-wing, the Defender did not surpass the Interceptor, and the Interceptor did not surpass the fighter.

Maybe if the B-wing had a base 2 attack, things would of been different.

When a new product wholly supplants an older one that fulfills the exact same function

Which is why FFG doesn't intentionally make ships that fulfill exactly the same function.

One ship being behind isn't power creep.

But the hounds tooth is a bloody awful design, it really does look like a damaged house brick with wings.

That's actually my favourite of the new ships (not that that's saying much)

Because... ponies?

Well let's see. I always kinda' liked the prequels, don't hate Jar Jar, I thought RoTS was an honestly good film for the most part, and as a boy at the age of ten I watched Powerpuff Girls religiously at 4:00PM on School Days (I just loved that show). I was always a huge Sonic fan as opposed to Mario (fret not, I don't like the bad games. But I do love the Adventure series and Generations). I ended up becoming a diehard Furry roughly ten years ago (doooooon't even start with me 'bout the stereotypes), nigh exclusively played Khajiit or Argonian in Elder Scrolls games, and boy oh boy do I love MLP:FiM.

I've always liked things out of the ordinary or been a generally out of the ordinary, or an outlier type of person. I had what was basically a boyfriend long before any Girlfriend, and just, y'know. I'm an outlier kind of person and fairly often told what I enjoy is not right or the standard, and people are at least right about the second one.

But I know where I stand. I can't act like what I love is the standard, so I don't. I don't hold others to mine and I respect when they don't do so to me. It's why I generally don't judge until someone's decided to attack me for what I like as if they're higher/mightier.

So, a myriad of reasons is why I have no right to judge. It'd make those I associate with, and even don't on a grand scale but do in a small way represent, look bad to others. What's the point?

Love what you love, I say. I think the Hound's Tooth is a boxy weird amalgam of bad design choices, but the same could totally be said about the HWK-290, N1, ARC-170, ETA-2, and even most of the OT ships.

So that's why. But enough about me, that's off topic.

I play Khajiit too

Guys, guys, guys... you're all forgetting the benefit to releasing terrible ship designs: it gets them out of the way now so we can have a stream of good designs later.

I'm disappointed in the ship selections, but oddly... it doesn't really bother me now that I've seen the models. I suppose I'm just a sucker for new toys, but I'm starting to look forward to them now.

17th April 2015. FFG announce wave 7, it's 4 four ships no one ever expected or wanted......

17th April 2015. GW announce a new Eldar codex, it's supposed to be nerfs, the Wraithknight is a gargantuan creature.....

The streams have been crossed, cats marrying dogs, Pandora is looking deep into her box, we are through the looking glass people.

There isn't power creep. FFG gives the new ships roles by making them different, not more powerful.

The only OT ship that's weak is the X-wing and that's because it's a Wave I ship and the design priorities were different then.

When a new product wholly supplants an older one that fulfills the exact same function, you have power creep. I would say the B-Wing almost universally replacing the X-Wing is a fair example of power creep, but that's limited to generics, and luckily one of the few instances I can cite.

I'm not even sure if it's power creep per se. When the X-Wing is unable to fulfill its role in its budget, I can't fault FFG for not compounding the mistake by making the B-Wing a bad buy.

I think the B-Wing would have found a different place in the game had the X-Wing been better at doing its job.

In fact: Wave 3 was supposed to be the Ordnance Wave, with the B-Wing and Tie Bomber being torpedo/missile carriers. The Lambda and HWK were supposed to be the supports to make those munitions carriers work. All of that was in service of making Han Shoots First builds a bit less good. And now I'm suddenly worried about Wave 7 in a way I hadn't been before.

Different designers. Also, keep in mind the X-wing was doing just fine until the B-wing came along.

I have B-Wings and X-Wings. I still use the X-Wings and rarely touch the B-Wings. Then again, the gaming in my area is just about entirely 100% friendly so we don't have tourney types fine-tuning to the smallest detail. I try to run Rogue Squadron as best I can, he wants Vader and his guys and gals, we have a grand ol' time.

As for the K-Wing/Wave Seven: I think the ships look really interesting. Will I get any of them? Maybe the K-Wing, but I don't collect Imperial or Scum. The Scum players I know are excited, the Imperials are indifferent.

Justified or unjustified, it does seem to me that all the outcry against the Wave 7 ships is indicative of some failure on FFG's part.

Now, maybe it's just because it's an EU wave, but it does strike me that the the outcry is louder than for Waves 4, 5, and 6 which were also EU waves. The EU is multifaceted with some ships showing up in some EU media and not in others. FFG seems to draw heavily from ships coming from the video games, and not really from the roleplaying games, books, or comics. I can understand why that might be, but even the games had some games that some people played and some that people did not.

It strikes me that people favor those ships that strike a nostalgic chord, and people dispute the authenticity of the EU-material from the media that they did not grow up with.

Did anyone read the stats on the ships?

17th April 2015. FFG announce wave 7, it's 4 four ships no one ever expected or wanted......

17th April 2015. GW announce a new Eldar codex, it's supposed to be nerfs, the Wraithknight is a gargantuan creature.....

The streams have been crossed, cats marrying dogs, Pandora is looking deep into her box, we are through the looking glass people.

Human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria...

There isn't power creep. FFG gives the new ships roles by making them different, not more powerful.

The only OT ship that's weak is the X-wing and that's because it's a Wave I ship and the design priorities were different then.

When a new product wholly supplants an older one that fulfills the exact same function, you have power creep. I would say the B-Wing almost universally replacing the X-Wing is a fair example of power creep, but that's limited to generics, and luckily one of the few instances I can cite.

I'm not even sure if it's power creep per se. When the X-Wing is unable to fulfill its role in its budget, I can't fault FFG for not compounding the mistake by making the B-Wing a bad buy.

I think the B-Wing would have found a different place in the game had the X-Wing been better at doing its job.

In fact: Wave 3 was supposed to be the Ordnance Wave, with the B-Wing and Tie Bomber being torpedo/missile carriers. The Lambda and HWK were supposed to be the supports to make those munitions carriers work. All of that was in service of making Han Shoots First builds a bit less good. And now I'm suddenly worried about Wave 7 in a way I hadn't been before.

Budgetary constraints most certainly contribute to power creep. Look at what's happened in Magic; vanilla beaters with power-toughness-cost parity were amazing back in the day. Now? A 2/1 for one mana or a 3/4 for three mana are increasingly sub-bar at the competitive level, because you aren't getting enough value for what you're paying.

Also, I think some people have a mistaken sense of history with this game. The X-Wing did not phase out over night with the release of the B-Wing; it still had a healthy place in the game, and only the generic X-Wings were eventually supplanted by the B-Wing. More importantly, jousting in general sort of went out the window with the release of wave 4, once the Phantom and its counters started to dominate the meta. The X-Wing is more a victim of that than any failings we can attribute to its value-cost ratio.

Which is why FFG doesn't intentionally make ships that fulfill exactly the same function.

One ship being behind isn't power creep.

Intent is a tricky subject. Whatever FFG might have intended, the B-Wing has replaced the X-Wing as the jouster par excellence. They may differ mechanically in various ways, but functionally they fill the exact same role. So yeah, that is power creep. Looking at it backwards won't change that.

Fine. Fine. It's a lovely adjective, isn't it?

"of very high quality; very good of its kind".

But it doesn't really mean that nowadays, does it? It's becoming more of a satisfactory statement or a palm-wave than a superlative.

"How's your Nan doing?"

"Oh, you know, she's fine. Apart from the scrofula and the forgetfulness and that incident with the milkman. She's fine."

And maybe Wave 7 is fine (...from a certain point of view). But I'm hoping Wave 8's going to be awesome.

At this point, I am utterly convinced that the "Tie Bomber love" that was mentioned in the Jodo Cast interview is the reason why we got the Tie Punisher. I'm pretty sure it's a title card that works on "Tie Bombers" of all variants (including the Punisher). It's something that will improve the Tie Bomber. It's why they chose the Punisher instead of the Assault Boat...or whatever floats your boat.

17th April 2015. FFG announce wave 7, it's 4 four ships no one ever expected or wanted......

17th April 2015. GW announce a new Eldar codex, it's supposed to be nerfs, the Wraithknight is a gargantuan creature.....

The streams have been crossed, cats marrying dogs, Pandora is looking deep into her box, we are through the looking glass people.

Not to go completely off topic... I'm not sure what source you're reading but the new Eldar codex is almost entirely buffs all across the board; scatter lasers don't twin-link every other weapon anymore, and the Wave Serpent's shield can only be fired once, but otherwise outside of Guardians and Wraithlords everything got better. So business as usual.

Not to go completely off topic... I'm not sure what source you're reading but the new Eldar codex is almost entirely buffs all across the board; scatter lasers don't twin-link every other weapon anymore, and the Wave Serpent's shield can only be fired once, but otherwise outside of Guardians and Wraithlords everything got better. So business as usual.

you're forgetting the insane D-weapons across the board. talk about a miniatures game being broken by a new release.

srsly tho....I'm all in for wave 7.

Wraithknights are LoW now. But yeah, it seems like GW is really trying to push Apoc elements down into the regular game, and it's going to seriously unhinge everything until they follow up with all of the other releases... and we all know that won't be nearly fast enough.

Wave 7 is the first wave to really dig deep into the EU. Other EU ships have mostly been either from well known EU material, connected to popular characters, or part of the scum faction which caters specifically to people who don't mind digging into the EU.

In general it's pretty pathetic how much whining there has been about wave 7. It happens every time a new wave is announced but this is worse than usual. It's fine to not like something, but it's almost as if some people take pleasure in coming on the forum and proudly proclaiming just how much they don't like it.

There are civil ways to say "I'm not a fan of this," and then there is childish whining.

And then there's whining about whining, which one might consider both ironic and unflattering.

I'm not even sure what the backlash was about. The 2 loudest arguments against wave 7 were this:

1. The K-wing is ugly.

2. The Imperial ship isn't an Assault Gunboat.

I can let number 1 slide, after all its matter of taste. (I personally think the Aggressor is ugly)

But was a gunboat ever teased or hinted at 'officially?'.

But was a gunboat ever teased or hinted at 'officially?'.

No. People just expect it.

Oh god, I have so many mixed feeling about this wave! I'm very glad for Hound's Tooth, another bounty hunter is always a good thing! For the Interdictor and K-Wing, why not? It's getting harder and harder to find a good rebel or imperial ship that is not a copy-paste of what we already have... but for the Kirhraxz/Vaksai... That was my favorite ship in SWG when I was playing the neutral faction! I'm very glad they went with it first and I expect it to be the scum X-Wing... I mean, I should be very excited to see this ship coming in X-Wing and soon being able to field a Vaksai squadron.... but why did they had to pick the worst design?

Easy, because the other styles share the same profile as the E-Wing and that wouldn't be good for their design philosophy.

I have a new theory of why we got the fairly obscure Tie Punisher/Interdictor instead of the Assault Gunboat: Ease of production. With the Punisher they can basically use the same molds and plastic bits as the Bomber. Probably saves them a bunch of money.

Only thing I can think of. The Tie Interdictor was in one video game. That's it. The fairly decent but not wildly popular Star Wars Battlegrounds. SW:BG was basically a Star Wars version of Age of Empires. I just don't understand why they went with a starfighter that obscure into the EU, when they had a lot more options available that are more wildly recognizable.

For the Rebels you have to scrap the bottom of the barrel a lot more. I just wish it wasn't the K-wing. Hardpoints... ****ing hardpoints... Don't belong on a Star Wars Fighter. And do the Rebels really need another turret, even at only 2 attack? They already have 4 turret ships. Just doesn't seem necessary.