Beatty, you at absolutely right! Here is my favorite method of handling that with 3 VSD's.

I like to use a staggered formation and I would have my turn 2 and 3 commands as navigation. 4 and 5 I expect X Wings so that will be engineering commands. Using the nav commands to allow me a speed 1 two click turn. This will let me predict where things will be (seems silly but watch). Having the ship's staggered I can force my opponent to move a few ways. Usually within my front arc of something.

While the rebels can dance like a butterfly they don't yet sting hard enough. Wave 1 will change that a bit though, but at the same time imps get a speed 3 as well

I suppose we could just pretend that the potency of crits, dedona, and the rebel capital ships don't exist while the Victory is busy being swarmed to death

also don't forget that brace does jack diddly to X-wings unless they roll double hits

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

Try fighting a 3 VSD II list and say that. . .

Well I'm basing off of two core sets. Because I see no reason I should spend 200$ on starter stuff. I'll wait for expansions. I'm patient like that. Still though. Rebels have the numbers and maneuverability. This game is all about tactics and numbers/maneuverability favors the tactics mentality over brute force. Both sides are playable and competitive. I just think most people haven't nailed this game down yet where tactics are thought of and employed wisely enough for rebels to be successful. Imperials are easy because of firepower and hull size. But I could equate the skill level needed for it to fat han in xwing. Just lazy fly and fire away.

Meh. Rebel swam build of 6 CR90As with Mon Mothma. Those redirects will come in really handy. Sure you lose initiative at 294, but you get to roll 12 red dice at long range. Or one could go 7 CR90Bs with Dodonna, but I think Mon Mothma is better for survival.

A better imp build is Vic 1s with ties making up the difference. This lets you have an answer to ywings and Bwings (the real threat)

Edited to add:

I actually like the rebels better, as they are currently more fun to play. And if you get behind the trailing VSD, they really can cover each other.

After playing a game last night being the Rebs and losing out on the initiative bid, I can say that a Frigate is more than welcomed. If the Imps get their bid and there is nothing that helps the rebs at all, you are screwed. I am excited to see how much the new ships will shake things up.

anyone know when wave1 will be shipping to us?

anyone know when wave1 will be shipping to us?

The laboratory premise of this little experiment is completely flawed from the beginning. Also remember that the Rebel player is not just fielding 6-7 Xwings in this scenario. The Imperial player seems to assume that he gets to field his three destroyer battle group with Tarkin against puny snub fighters alone. Like ficklegreendice pointed out, there are so many OTHER effects going on in this kind of engagement. For example (and this didn't take me long):

Nebulan B Escort Frigate (Dodonna, Weapons Liaison)

Nebulan B Support Frigate (Weapons Liaison)

Corvette B (Pride, Nav Team)

Corvette B

Xwings x 6

That's more than enough to down your egineering 6 destroyer. Squadron commands are not even necessary. Simply fly the Xwings at max speed toward the target destroyer and let them get bumped and placed. Free damage. It's so easy to predict the Destroyer's movement.

If you don't take anything else away then take this: it's not as cut and dry as the 3 Destroyer proponents like to think.

The laboratory premise of this little experiment is completely flawed from the beginning. Also remember that the Rebel player is not just fielding 6-7 Xwings in this scenario. The Imperial player seems to assume that he gets to field his three destroyer battle group with Tarkin against puny snub fighters alone.

If you don't take anything else away then take this: it's not as cut and dry as the 3 Destroyer proponents like to think.

I don't know that anyone is proposing that 3 VSDs is a "cut and dry" victory; I'm certainly not. What I am saying is that snubfighters alone are not a significant threat to the fleet. If anything, I think both sides of this argument are beginning to degenerate into strawmen arguments.

Objectives: yes, both sides are going to bring objectives that favour them. Since 3 VSDs is not a balanced list, bidding for initiative seems highly important, because if the Rebels are allowed to leverage their strengths by forcing you to pick from 3 objectives that favour them, you may not be able to make up for the disadvantage by simply destroying them.

Yes, Rebel ships are fast and maneuverable and can get behind you, but if you're playing king of the hill over Fire Lanes, Contested Outpost or Intel Sweep, that speed is mitigated. Likewise, allowing the objective to be Superior Positioning, Hyperspace Assault, Opening Salvo, or your opponent's Minefields is a catastrophe, exposing the weakest elements of your ships.

Yes, if your opponent concentrates 300 points worth of fighters and ships on one VSD, that ship will go down in less than 6 rounds. It should be expected that a 3 VSD list will lose one ship, and it should be the goal to more than make up for that loss with Objectives and inflicted casualties. With strong play, two VSDs may be destroyed, which basically requires that either the enemy fleet be eradicated, or that the Objective provides enough points to compensate.

Rebel ships will not just line up in your front arc and take the hits, but neither should the VSDs simply trundle slowly forwards. If there is a goal like the station, the Rebels might get there first, but staying near it sacrifices their maneuverability. With no goal, the VSDs should slowly pivot, turning to cover the next one's rear with Navigate commands. If a Rebel fleet starts in one corner to get behind them, all three VSDs turning to face that way creates a gauntlet that needs to be run, and covers a lot of the board, making it harder for the Rebels to stay at long range.

Now, am I saying Imperial victory is "cut and dry"? No, it should be an interesting match. I'm only arguing that it's competitive despite running few or no Fighters. Yes, the ships are slow, you aim to play an objective that compensates for that. Yes, the other ships are more maneuverable, you aim to turn to cover your own flanks. Yes, the fighters will inflict damage unchecked, you aim to score points and deal equal damage back.

The entire point of crafting a list like this, as I said back in the first thread I created about it, is to focus on your strengths and attempt to mitigate your weaknesses. Therefore, much of how this list plays will be determined before the game begins, when choosing Objectives. If you can play Contested Outpost or Fire Lanes, your opponent's speed is almost irrelevant. If you end up playing Superior Positioning, you're likely already dead.

GAThraawn is completely valid on his points.

To add to that, When using objectives that do not provide an objective, one can start the VSD's in a corner angled for the most part to have max coverage and start them at speed 1. From there they can use tarkins tokens to reduce sped to 0 for a couple of turns forcing the Rebel playing to them. By turn 2-3, another Tarkin Nav token will get them moving so that they can use defense tokens.