I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

Counter. The A-Wing attacks, the TIE attacks, the A-Wing gets another free attack.

OK, but I am seeing lots of plans talking about the Gladiator also if they go with the Interceptor the A-wing is on the losing side. A wing hits and unless it hits with every shot does not kill the Interceptor, Interceptor takes it counter attack and then follows up with normal attack most likely killing A-wing as it will be rolling two (maybe three dice) likely with a re-roll on its counter attack, and then follow that up with four (maybe five) dice again likely with a re-roll on its attack. So all it looks like to me is that it would be a trading of fighters leaving ships, where as right now the X-wing will most likely still one shot it and would survive the counter attack. The Interceptor also moves at five and still has swarm.

in the above scenario, they'd actually be far more likely to die simultaneously (counter occurs even if destroyed)...

This is kind of what I was talking about, as a Imperail player I will gladly trade my fighters one for one with the rebel, if I can clear the air of fighters I belevie that my ships are more powerful, it is the fighters that in a lot of ways worry me the most.

My goal is to make Imperial players respect the Rebel Alliance. And much like the Emperor many Imperial players, from a lot of the posts I've seen, will start off over confident in their ships and forget the key to winning in this game, Tactics.

In X-Wing it is easy to throw out numbers and figure out how a fight should unfold but in Armada many of those numbers get twisted with how you command your fleet. Armada is not individual ships acting alone like in X-Wing but very much rely on the other ships and squadrons in your fleet. There is so much synergy it is crazy, and much more so than in X-Wing.

For all you Imperial players that think your ships are Powerful enough wait till Wave 1. No one is going to knowingly fly into your nasty front arc so don't count on the 6 dice to win you games, the Rebels get a lot more offensive power in Wave 1 that will surprise you. So work on your Manouvers and Tactics, you are going to need them.

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

If our theory crafting is anything to go by, and it's been on point so far, Rhymer and TIE bombers are going to be absolutely amazing. The Gladiator looks amazing, and the Rebels hopefully will get a Nebulon B that actually works (IMHO it isn't worth taking right now) with the Assault frigate finally giving them a ship that can go toe to toe with the VSDII and not die. The game will also start to involve squadrons a lot more, as of right now they are somewhat irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

Try fighting a 3 VSD II list and say that. . .

If our theory crafting is anything to go by, and it's been on point so far, Rhymer and TIE bombers are going to be absolutely amazing. The Gladiator looks amazing, and the Rebels hopefully will get a Nebulon B that actually works (IMHO it isn't worth taking right now) with the Assault frigate finally giving them a ship that can go toe to toe with the VSDII and not die. The game will also start to involve squadrons a lot more, as of right now they are somewhat irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

The Nebulon B works great as a support ship that is is supposed to be. Right now I think that the main attack force of the Rebels is the fighter. As for the Empire it is there ships that are the main attack force, there fighters are only there to keep the rebel fighters off of the ships.

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

Try fighting a 3 VSD II list and say that. . .

The counter to the 3 VSD list is lots of little ships and fighters, if the Empire is going three VSD in a 300pt game they are not going to have fighters, so the X-wings should be able to tear them up. Right now I do not think that either side have a huge advantage, they both have advantages and disadvantanges but I think that they are ballanced.

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

Highly depends on the objectives played in my opinion. Spare a few points at fleet composition to have a good bid at the initiative, then force your enemy to be first player and have him chose from three equally cruesome, equally rebell-punishing objectives which favour tanky SDs over nimble scum-ships. Advanced gunnery, contested outpost, minefield? None of these objectives help rebells as much as imperials, my SD will either be able to fire from the same hull zone at the same target, be circling speed one around an outpost till oblivion or be having a much easier time with tiny corvettes and stuff as mines do the area-denial.

Points per ponts I also find TIEs to be quite a competitor to X-Wings, and their unique squadron is heavily buffing the whole team while spoiled-brad Luke is just enhancing his solo capabilities and otherwise is bringing nothing to the table, dogfight-wise.

If our theory crafting is anything to go by, and it's been on point so far, Rhymer and TIE bombers are going to be absolutely amazing. The Gladiator looks amazing, and the Rebels hopefully will get a Nebulon B that actually works (IMHO it isn't worth taking right now) with the Assault frigate finally giving them a ship that can go toe to toe with the VSDII and not die. The game will also start to involve squadrons a lot more, as of right now they are somewhat irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

The Nebulon B works great as a support ship that is is supposed to be. Right now I think that the main attack force of the Rebels is the fighter. As for the Empire it is there ships that are the main attack force, there fighters are only there to keep the rebel fighters off of the ships

The problem with the Nebulon B is that it lacks a redirect and has a huge side arc with only 1 shield. It also has a sub par squadron value, meaning that not only does it have to be in close/medium to activate the xwings, but it is likely going to get shot at by VSD or other ships. It's only strength is attacking from the front, where the enemy will win in a stand up fight, then kill the Neb as it passes by. Xwings also cant be taken in large enough numbers at the moment to be of any real threat to enemy ships.

It's there for whittling down shields/clearing fighters, but fighters currently aren't important in the overall game. Obviously, this will change with Wave 1.

The Neb's squadron value is standard for its size/cost, going by the gladiator, not "sub-par"

The wide side is a pain in the...side, but it does enable some pretty wide anti-squadron coverage

attacking from the front is the sole strength of the support refit, and it is superior to the victory at longer range (cheaper, dodge token) especially when Salvation comes out. Against the Gladiator, it is obviously no contest (outside range 1).

The escort frigate is a very potent squadron orientated capital ship (especially when Yavaris comes out). Squadrons are incredibly important in the game as is. X-wings are the only rebel element that are can stand up to the Victory star destroyer and output a significant amount of damage to it point-per-point and they stack up quite well event against Ties provided you don't do silly things like let them get swarmed by howlrunner and co.

I would argue that at present, while the Xwing is potent, if the imperial player or rebel player is competent not enough of them will survive enemy squadrons to make an impact on the game. With only 4 stands at max, they don't have enough staying power to be a real threat.

Obviously this will change in Wave 1.

I would argue that at present, while the Xwing is potent, if the imperial player or rebel player is competent not enough of them will survive enemy squadrons to make an impact on the game. With only 4 stands at max, they don't have enough staying power to be a real threat.

Obviously this will change in Wave 1.

You must be playing with different X-wings then I have, they are a real pain in rear end to kill. If we are talking about 180pt games for the Empire I will get my VSD II, Tarken, 6 Tie Fighters, leaving me 9pts for upgrades, I can add one more fighter if I have a base for it or more than likely change one fighter to Howlrunner. That leaves me with 1pt for upgrades, so I am done with my fleet build.

I would expect to see on the Rebel side General Dodonna, Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, CR90B, three X-wing and Luke, this comes in at 300pts.

If the empire runs the Ties out front of the VSD then the Nebulon-B shoots them this will not kill them but does make them easy work for the X-wings to finish off, and if allowed two turns they will likely shoot down several with just the ship, if the fighters are keep back some then I would expect the Rebel player to set engament range. Going with that the Rebel player sends in two of his fighters with a squadron command and kills two of the Tie's, the Imperal player sends in three of his with his squadron command and kills one X-wing then when it is time to move the rest of the fighters they move them in to combat. So after the first round of combat the Rebles have 3/4 (75%) of there fighters remaining, the Empire have 4/6 (75%), assuming that they do a squadron command again (more likely for the Rebel than the Empire I think) the Rebles again kill two Tie fighters, and the Empire kills one more X-wing by fighters, however the other two Tie fightes are likely killed by the Nebulon-B. This leaves 2/4 (50%) of the Reble fightes to go and attack the VSD and the Empire has no real way to kill them, and if Luke is one of them then they will start doing damage to the VSD shortly, if not they will start picking at the shields with the Nebuon-B and/or CR90 depending on what is still alive. I am guessing three turns to get in combat and kill the Tie's, leaving three turns for all surving Rebles to kill the VSD. Can it be done yes, maybe not easy and for sure not with out some losses on the Rebel side but in some ways I think it will only be come easer with when go up to 300pts. The Empire will also get some other options at wave one keeping it balanced, but I do not see the whoa is me that I am seeing from a lot of Rebels even before you look at objectives.

Predictions of which side is going to be toast are difficult to take seriously. I think FFG knows how to make a game where it is the skills of the players that really matters, even more than the dice. Notions of which faction is going to automatically wipe the table with the other sounds like a recipe for excuses.

Predictions of which side is going to be toast are difficult to take seriously. I think FFG knows how to make a game where it is the skills of the players that really matters, even more than the dice. Notions of which faction is going to automatically wipe the table with the other sounds like a recipe for excuses.

But when the Empire DOES win, it is because of our moral and doctrinal superiority.

I'm playing with the same xwings, but for those xwings to be efficient they have to have the squadron command, which means that the rebel ships are within range of being shot by my VSD, a place they do not want to be, and if they are they certainly don't want to be using squadron commands.

This goes out the window with the release of wave 1.

If our theory crafting is anything to go by, and it's been on point so far, Rhymer and TIE bombers are going to be absolutely amazing. The Gladiator looks amazing, and the Rebels hopefully will get a Nebulon B that actually works (IMHO it isn't worth taking right now) with the Assault frigate finally giving them a ship that can go toe to toe with the VSDII and not die. The game will also start to involve squadrons a lot more, as of right now they are somewhat irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

The Nebulon B works great as a support ship that is is supposed to be. Right now I think that the main attack force of the Rebels is the fighter. As for the Empire it is there ships that are the main attack force, there fighters are only there to keep the rebel fighters off of the ships.

Personally, I see rebels at a huge advantage actually right now. There numbers and speed make a lumbering star destroyer hard to get into optimal range. If he overshoots his trajectory, he'll be chased from behind the whole rest of the game. Their TIE's are already struggling against X-wings imo. Everytime I've played rebels, Victory with little effort. Playing Imperials, I have to work for my victories. Coming from an Imperial fan boy who does better with the rebels :/

Try fighting a 3 VSD II list and say that. . .

The counter to the 3 VSD list is lots of little ships and fighters, if the Empire is going three VSD in a 300pt game they are not going to have fighters, so the X-wings should be able to tear them up. Right now I do not think that either side have a huge advantage, they both have advantages and disadvantanges but I think that they are ballanced.

I disagree with this. At most you have have is 7 X-Wings with/out luke. That is not a lot. Having to face 3 VSD 2's with. Not when they can generate 6 engineering a turn with Tarkin. How are you supposed to take that down? Now add in that the list can be done cheap at 293 points and you will likely have the choice of being second player.

This isn't X-wing

you don't have to kill 3 VSDs, you just have to get more victory points than your opponent

the 3 VSDs, meanwhile, can't do **** to even one X-wing (Squadron)

That is true but with movement and such those X wings will have turns where they don't do any thing. All the while the big guns will be taking shots at the small weaker ships.

How much damage can 7 X-Wings really do mathematically?

the "big guns" on the Victory II are only on the front between medium-close range and dominator (same ranges, any arc at the cost of applying meat tenderizer to yourself). Long range heavily favors rebel ships in terms of cost effectiveness and the dodge token

The xwing's squadron effective threat range covers the exact same distance as the ideal "big guns", only the victory's slow ass can't dance away from them. x amount of red dice +/- 1 shield piercing black is going to start pegging the Victory's fat base for at least another turn or it's going to speed up to allow the rebels to overshoot it.

without ties, you're boned. the game's kinda balanced that way (and it is a great reflection of how imp cap ships and squadrons work in lore)

the "big guns" are only on the front between medium-close range and dominator (same ranges, any arc). Long range heavily favors rebel ships in terms of cost effectiveness and the dodge token the xwing's squadron effective threat range covers the exact same distance, only the victory's slow ass cant dance away from them. x amount of red dice +/- 1 shield piercing black is going to start pegging the Victory's fat base for at least another turn or it's going to speed up to allow the rebels to overshoot it.

without ties, you're boned. the game's kinda balanced that way (and it is a great reflection of how imp cap ships and squadrons work in lore)

Last I checked a VSD has 2 red dice minimum on all sides, the front has 1 more than that. The Sides of the VSD have 1 blue/black dice, and the front has 3 of the aforementioned dice. How is that weaker than the Rebels who have at best 3 red dice on the front arc of one ship and both of their current ships only have only 2 dice on the sides and those are 1 red and 1 blue dice.

The X wings will need two to three turns to get to the VSDs in order to ever get an attack in and that is a maybe. That is not enough time to stack damage for a grand total of 2 turns.

the "big guns" are only on the front between medium-close range and dominator (same ranges, any arc). Long range heavily favors rebel ships in terms of cost effectiveness and the dodge token the xwing's squadron effective threat range covers the exact same distance, only the victory's slow ass cant dance away from them. x amount of red dice +/- 1 shield piercing black is going to start pegging the Victory's fat base for at least another turn or it's going to speed up to allow the rebels to overshoot it.

without ties, you're boned. the game's kinda balanced that way (and it is a great reflection of how imp cap ships and squadrons work in lore)

Last I checked a VSD has 2 red dice minimum on all sides, the front has 1 more than that. The Sides of the VSD have 1 blue/black dice, and the front has 3 of the aforementioned dice. How is that weaker than the Rebels who have at best 3 red dice on the front arc of one ship and both of their current ships only have only 2 dice on the sides and those are 1 red and 1 blue dice.

The X wings will need two to three turns to get to the VSDs in order to ever get an attack in and that is a maybe. That is not enough time to stack damage for a grand total of 2 turns.

Long range favours rebells as the dodge token is boss at this range, and they do get a better long range front armament (AF: broadside armament) per points spent. With the salvation title and possibly mon mothma, the Neb will outperform the VSD at long range, even though the advantage will only last one/two turns before you will be getting in medium range and/or exposing a side. As you can activate squadrons at close-med range, and the squadrons itself only need to get in range one to attack the ships, there is always a sweet spot at which you stay at long range to the enemy and still be able to activate the squadron. And with speed two at best, the SD will need at least two turns to get out of range of a squadron.

Not saying that a 3 VSD list is not threatening at this point, the area denial is heavy and it is a pretty intimidating force, yet with objectives in the rebells favour there is a good chance to win a game, and once wave 1 arrives the 3 VSD list will not be viable anymore..

7 X-Wings can do an average of 5.25 damage a round, while a VSD with Tarkin can recover 3 shields a turn. With redirects and brace, it should take 4 rounds before the Destroyer takes hull damage, and 7 rounds to destroy it (problem there). Luke speeds the clock up a little, but not enough unless he's getting critical effects.

Having played a 3 VSD II list against 6 X-Wings, I can say there were little more than a minor nuisance. Once better bombers are available, the maths changes, but at the moment an Imperial fighter screen may not be a vital fleet element.

With 3 VSD's you are looking at a huge part of the board that is denied to the Rebels. Can the X-Wings get in? Yes? Are they likely to take out a VSD? No. Even on Rear shields they will have issues. Next there is the fact that Tarkin is in one of those ships so they will always have navigation and engineering tokens which lets be honest are the only tokens they would need. The Navigation tokens lets them change speeds to mess with X-Wings, the engineering tokens will repair shields at amminimum or with an engineering command, repair 3 shields or remove 2 damage.

With 3 VSD's you have ships that can come in and provide an obstacle so that the Rebels are denied their most needed aspect, concentration of fire. Oh they can likely shoot the VSD being beset upon by the squadrons but the other VSD's are lethal and that is a great deterrent.

Now mathematically, a X-Wing squadron has a 1in4 chance of missing. They have a 1in2 chance of hitting for 1 point, and lastly a 1in4 chance of hitting for 2. (pretty sure I am remembering the red dice well enough) in the 2 rounds of attacking they will get, that is not enough.

Hesekiel, you are right in all of that. A Rebel player would need to be at 392 points in order to win the initiaive bid.

Those things you listed as upgrades will limit the ship's the Rebels can bring which will lessen their advantage.

You are right evade tokens are best at range 3, however that will still take a full turn to get into and then you will duke it out with several VSD's by then

Hmmm... Couple of things we need to remember, on a 3x6 there is little chance to deny the Rebels movement even with 3 VSD's becuase the Rebels Will out manouver you. The Rebels will also not attack several VSD's at once and will focus on one at a time when possible. Rebel Upgrades in wave one have ways to hurt VSD's bad if you are not careful. Missions, missions, missions, do not forget missions.

Three VSD's are tough but not impossible at all, the trick is movement. The VSD's are not fast enough to respond to the sudden changes and getting flanked. You will be lucky to get 2 VSD's with targets in range and unobstructed by your own VSD's. And if you have no Tie support to speak of you are looking at losing one VSD for sure and then you have to kill enough points to make up for that loss while the Rebels will be playing the Hit and Run game. (Kill a VSD and then stay out of Range of the Rest of your fleet until turn 6.)

Don't be a Tarkin and get over confident in your ship's abilities to win a game, without good tactical thinking and a planned formation made to trap your enemy you will be on the back foot the whole game.

Now this is just my opinion and you may be a far better player than your friends but going by what I have seen the VSD's do have a weakness in movement and if you don't account for it it will be your Achilles Heel.