So I have been seeing responses about how Rebels will get such a boost from Wave 1. Now thesy will get a bost but I dont think it will be as huge as people are predicting.

Many people are stating that until the Assault Frigate MK2 gets here that imperials will lose most of the time. While I agree with the fact that the rebels are at a HUGE disadvantage compared to the Imperials, I personally dont think that the MK2 is going to change much for them.

Here is my reasoning.

The MK2 will likely run about 72-81 points ( as per current spoiled images), It will have more shields than the VSD (1 more in the Fore and the Aft of the ship), it gets 3 different types of defense tokens (this is good if you just stay in the red dice range since evade is amazing at that range), and lastly while the MK2 gets to go speed 3 compared to the VSD's speed 2, its lack of overall firepower means that it cant heavily take advantage of its strengths comparatively.

The MK2 A is arguably the best unless you are running Gallant Haven with the B version which together is 1 point less than the A. The A comes with 2 Anti-squadron dice, an extra blue dice in the fore and aft and the standard MK2 3 red and 1 blue on the port and starboard sides. It has only 6 hull points and is really more like a tougher version of the Gladiator then a VSD, even though the cost is roughly the same with the VSD.

Now command wise the MK2 is roughly on par with the VSD. The B variant actually has the same command stats and the A variant only loses 1 squadron. That is pretty good but if all you are doing is planning on using engineering all day to heal the damage that might occur to you.

Now lets talk upgrades. The MK2 comes with the same upgrade slots for both versions. It gets an Officer, a Weapons Team, an Offensive Refit (Hanger bays for the B variant more likely) a Defensive Retrofit (like the Weapon teams I still have not found a good card for this slot. . . ), and lastly Turbo Lasers. That is a lovely 5 upgrades, and since the

Why does this mean that the MK2 wont be as amazing as people think? Its base cost of 72-81 points means that Rebels will have less ships (that is already almost to over double a CR90 B), and will have to dedicate more portions of our lists to this single ship. Now it may seem like a great idea at first but lets go over some basic strategies or thoughts and what their pros and cons are.

First strategy is to use the MK2 B with fighters, Bombers, Gallant Haven, and either Adar Tallon (or my personal favorite) Raymus Antillies.

Now in this strat, what you will likely do is keep a Neb B with Yarvis nearby to (and likely Adar Tallon) to the MK2 and use the fighters and bombers to demolish the enemy ships one at a time. A few issues with this is that the Imperial player is going to get to have many a tie fighter which does not worry the Neb B so much but it an pose an issue. Thankfully X-WIngs have Escort and Y- Wings have Heavy (though B-wings are better bombers it is arguable that one would not want the true bombers engaged), the next issue is that you will have to get close to the ship you want gone. We are talking close to medium range with the Yarvis, and Distance 1 with the Gallant Haven. This can be suicidal after a while due to needing to pump out repairs and repair tokens (which is why Raymus is AMAZING!) to repair shields and hull.

Another Strat involving the MK2 A is to angle them at the start and use navigation commands to get tight Speed 2-3 turns to stay in Red dice range (Enhanced Armaments becomes REAL good here) while you circle your prey VSD. This can be dangerous but possibly rewarding. It Is better with 2 MK2's though which is a HUGE point sink. . .

One can use the MK2 to force a different targeting priority (make the opponent go after it instead of the flimsy Neb-B's or CR90's) though any smart Imperial player is just going to go for the smaller ships first because they are easier points.

Personally I dont think the Rebels will be really balanced until wave 2 with the addition of the MC30c but that is me.

I know this is super long but it is just my thoughts.

Gladiator with upgrades is crazy and can outmanouver any rebel ship. Also again with upgrades it can 1 shot things as well as victory.

Gladiator with upgrades is crazy and can outmanouver any rebel ship. Also again with upgrades it can 1 shot things as well as victory.

It can POSSIBLY destroy any ship. I am not sure it can outmaneuver any rebel ships. It cant catch a CR90 for one and has a weaker turn radius than a Neb B. In fact it only has a better maneuver at speed 1 compared to the MK2. You also need to get the ship in to close range (which can be hard against Rebels) and you need to do it at an angle so that your fore and side armaments can both get a shot in meaning that if you dont kill things, you will likely be losing those 2 shields as well. Mind you since you HAVE to get into close range, the evade you get is pretty useless at that point so that is only 2 defensive tokens you will have if you dont kill what ever you are aiming at.

You also have to question, if you want to attack, move, attack. OR get medium ranged Black dice against ships that are as maneuverable or more so than you (unless you are playing against another Imp player)

FYI,

The heavy keyword dosen't make the y-wings unengageable, they just can't engage others. They will still be unable to move or shoot ships other than those they are engaged with if enemy fighters get within range 1 of them...

FYI,

The heavy keyword dosen't make the y-wings unengageable, they just can't engage others. They will still be unable to move or shoot ships other than those they are engaged with if enemy fighters get within range 1 of them...

You are absolutely correct. Hmmm Mkaes B-Wings all the better. . . but still a HUGE point sink. . .

Microscop, the only way the Gladiator can be faster is with the Engine Tech but at the same time all rebel ships BUT the MK2 can have that as well.

I believe what the Mk2 will bring to the table for the rebels is a blocker. It posses to great a threat for the Imps to simply ignore. So while it keeps the heavies attention, the Nebs and CRs can act as skirmishers and flankers.

1on1 the Vic will probably come out on top every time; but acting as the meat shield for a rebel fleet of smaller ships will make the Mk2 a valuable addition to their ranks.

I believe what the Mk2 will bring to the table for the rebels is a blocker. It posses to great a threat for the Imps to simply ignore. So while it keeps the heavies attention, the Nebs and CRs can act as skirmishers and flankers.

1on1 the Vic will probably come out on top every time; but acting as the meat shield for a rebel fleet of smaller ships will make the Mk2 a valuable addition to their ranks.

I dont think the MK2 is that huge of a threat though. I would rather kill a smaller ship with one of my VSD's and use the other to keep the MK2's attention.

The mk2 is not an offensive powerhouse like the victory, what's exciting is its manueverability (relative to the victory) + solid firepower concentrated on the sides rather than the front.

After playing with the neb (and liking it, mind) I can see why people are excited to field a less spindly ship . If you run around the victory and trade broadsides the AF should reliably come out on top.

IMO though, wave 1 is FAR more than the AF

1.) Freaking a-wings (tie killers to a T) to enable your slower ships

2.) Yavaris & salvation for high impact NEB's (imo redemption's effect is so subtle at a core set level)

3.) Character officers (raymus and that dude coming with the AF, specifically)

4.) Gallant haven to give ties fits

5.) New commanders (including mini tarkin )

Wave 1 is exciting because it will offer a much broader version of the game. While I love it as is, the dynamics of the core set options are getting a bit repetitive.

With wave 1, the rebels can slug it out more and the empire can move more quickly

The Mk2 is easily able to outmaneuver a Star Destroyer and pour some potent max range firepower. Those elements alone have incredible potential. Throw in a frigate with Redemption and you have a capital ship that can out repair the Star Destroyer.

My thoughts are this: the Rebelllion has three ship types in Wave 1, and the Imperials have two ship types. This makes both factions extremely different from one another, both from a tactical standpoint of deployment and overall change of flexibility. The Rebel ships are all very different from one another and require a TON of thought to movement and escape. The Inperials have the advantage of being able to use fewer ships that have lots of health and some extremely serious guns. Does this mean the Rebellion is weaker? Not really. The ability to throw out more ships and with more mishmash variety is cruicial to flexible and responsive combat options can absolutely make or break their chances at being successful. Conversely, Imperials get away with being effective in planning in advance, especially when considering movement (especially Vic and Glad I's) and even more in pregame with how they might or might not want initiative.

In the end both factions feel very distinct with ships, and that's so cool. The Assault Frigate, while by no means my favourite, is going to be awesome with those broadside guns and Squadron commands. It is no pushover.

Victories will kick butt.

Can you imagine 5 of them in 400 points lists?

Victories will already kick butt.

Can you imagine 5 of them in 400 points lists?

visual approximation:

I played this scenario out with my two medium bases, and one AF is going to kick one Victory's butt most of the time. There's pretty much nothing a lone Victory can do to stop it from getting behind and pummeling it into submission. The best part is the AF can then stay there because of its speed two maneuvers. EA is pretty much mandatory on them.

The counter to the AF is going to be the Gladiator or bombers covering your rear.

I kind of feel bad for the Victory right now, because it really isn't that good of a ship. The front arc is really, really easy to dodge once you've figured out the maneuver tool.

Also when we've navel gazing about what Wave 1 is going to be like, can we at least try to include discussion of objectives? They're kind of how you actually win games most of the time, because killing ships can be rather hard. Using the AF as your Most Wanted ship is going to drastically change how you play it compared to playing with Intel Sweep or Fire Lanes. In fact I think the AF might be pretty good for Fire Lanes, at least compared to the other Rebel ships.

LOL...... Well let's discuss how much the Rebels suck in a month or so.

I've been looking and comparing ships to Objectives and looking at each faction and their weaknesses and I see both factions as being very strong in their own way. Right now the Rebels are having a harder time becuase of the learning curve and lack of some more offensive upgrades that would help at such low point games.

After wave 1 playing at 300 points with these extra options will make the Rebels more agressive in some ways and if Imperials do not use the GSD and just rely on the VSD to pull all the weight the Empire will be struggling with Missions.

But everything ks theory right now and in a couple of weeks we will be testing them.

The AF will be good at missions that involve Command score and such.

I think the Engine Tech's is an amazing card! Letting a CR90 do a medium range attack and then getting a move 4 with a 0, 1, 1, 2 clicks and then a move 1 with 2 clicks. Mmmmm that is going to be AMAZING! I may need 5 of them or so . . .

I'm firmly with ficklegreendice on this one. While I cant wait to start playing with an assault frigate (I like the look of paragon personally), its the upgrades and squadrons that are really exciting.

Played a game today with a single Yavaris Neb-B escort, three CR90's (one of which had Ramius(sp) on board), three B's and three X's. While I haven’t been a huge fan of the Neb-B up to now a single Yavaris was very impressive indeed, and the enhanced squadron commands on the CR90 was extremely helpful as well, all this lead to swift rebel domination of the squadron game. The imperials had two victories with Motti, five bombers, and five fighters.

The imperials has a very hard time of trying to keep the CR90's from sitting behind them, and not ignoring the Yavaris while it punished them mercilessly with B-wings.....my god, when those things work!! It wound up being the single biggest victory I have seen so far, both victories destroyed, and just a few bombers left. We played superior positions and the rebels attacked on the outside of the offset imperial formation, this meant the victories ended up one behind the other as they turned towards the rebels.

I will likely use an AF-MII-B myself in my Rebel lists, Raymus and Expanded Hanger Bays with Paragon, that gets me a 5 squadron activation on the dial, and it can throw 7 dice if I line up my firing arcs, with the maneuverability to do so, I think.

Overall it looks to be a solid ship, its flexible and adds a much needed durable ship to the roster. Also it looks like a dogs head, so Dogeship will be hounding out those imperials, Much Shields Many Reddice Such WIN

(I couldn't help myself)

I found so far that once you use objectives if the Imp fleet has the initiative they get their butt well and truly whooped. Remember that the one without initiative places the objectives (at least has done in the 2 I've used) and where will you place them? Of course closer to your ships. Rebels can jump them a bit like Eldar in 40k can. In a toe to toe fight I found rebs get hurt; but once objectives come in you can make it very hard for Imperials big and slow (max 2) VSD to get close to them.

I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

Counter. The A-Wing attacks, the TIE attacks, the A-Wing gets another free attack.

I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

Counter. The A-Wing attacks, the TIE attacks, the A-Wing gets another free attack.

this and speed 5 means they'll be rolling before Ties

you won't be bulldozing them like X-wings, but you will be striking first and surgically removing swarm bonuses before the activate, making them unable to kill your a-wings

I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

Counter. The A-Wing attacks, the TIE attacks, the A-Wing gets another free attack.

OK, but I am seeing lots of plans talking about the Gladiator also if they go with the Interceptor the A-wing is on the losing side. A wing hits and unless it hits with every shot does not kill the Interceptor, Interceptor takes it counter attack and then follows up with normal attack most likely killing A-wing as it will be rolling two (maybe three dice) likely with a re-roll on its counter attack, and then follow that up with four (maybe five) dice again likely with a re-roll on its attack. So all it looks like to me is that it would be a trading of fighters leaving ships, where as right now the X-wing will most likely still one shot it and would survive the counter attack. The Interceptor also moves at five and still has swarm.

I must be missing things, I keep seeing people talk about how great they think the A-wing will be for killing Tie's? Yes it is a little faster, but it also loses an attack die, I am thinking that the X-wing will still be the best anti-fighter fighter they have. What am I missing?

Counter. The A-Wing attacks, the TIE attacks, the A-Wing gets another free attack.

OK, but I am seeing lots of plans talking about the Gladiator also if they go with the Interceptor the A-wing is on the losing side. A wing hits and unless it hits with every shot does not kill the Interceptor, Interceptor takes it counter attack and then follows up with normal attack most likely killing A-wing as it will be rolling two (maybe three dice) likely with a re-roll on its counter attack, and then follow that up with four (maybe five) dice again likely with a re-roll on its attack. So all it looks like to me is that it would be a trading of fighters leaving ships, where as right now the X-wing will most likely still one shot it and would survive the counter attack. The Interceptor also moves at five and still has swarm.

in the above scenario, they'd actually be far more likely to die simultaneously (counter occurs even if destroyed)

the interceptors' only edge comes with swarm, in everything else they are very evenly matched and have to be considered in terms of matchups versus other squadrons (both in combat against and in terms to how they work within their respective factions) and with/against capital ships

For example,

the A-wing stacks up a lot better against capital ship anti-squadron firepower than the interceptor. That single hitpoint will go a long way to letting it not die in one activation.

meanwhile, the interceptor's four dice + potential re-rolls are going to make character squadrons wet themselves

It's more likely that Imperial players will use Fel+Mauler with 2+TIE Advanced and any leftover points going towards TIEs, their abilities are auto-damage and that is a huge advantage, Fel on his own basically gives counter2 to every TIE Advanced engaged around him, activate Mauler last so he can dive in on any 1 or 2 HP squadrons and finish them off or leave them in a position of suicide against your TIE/As. This combination will likely mop the floor with whatever it engages with.

In a mirror match it will probably come down to who gets squadron commands off to get the best engage, basicly catching the other players Fel and Mauler with your own so your auto-damage finishes them off first.