This is also kind of a general question about how the class specific triggers on OL cards work, as well...

With Blinding Speed, if you target a Warrior and they fail both tests, do you get 4 movement, or do you get 6? Since the Warrior failed "at least one", it seems you'd get two, and failing both, as a warrior, seems it could grant four more...

You get 4 movement points. The Warrior clause at the bottom of the card should state the word "instead", but it doesn't for some reason.

Blinding speed gives either a overlord card if the hero succeeds in both tests, 2 movement points If at least 1 test fails or if the targeted hero is of the warrior archetype and both tests fail 4 movement points.

So, does that mean that Uncontrolled Power would replace the +1 fatigue surge with the damage and fatigue surge? Rather than getting both?

In the case of Uncontrolled Power you gain both. The mage clause says "the attack also gains..."

Ah. Thanks for the clarification. My OL will be sad(and that makes me happy).
I might still be bitter about the "bucket brigade" bs that cost us the Stone. (Which he used Blinding Speed to set up)

I found that thread I was looking for. It's actually 6, according to Nathan, although he admits that he always played it as 4.

I was thinking that "Blinding Speed" was the exception to the rule, but it's not. In all cases, the class specific text is additional on those cards. Go Basic 2!

For those interested, here's the bit in the rulebook. This is news to me, but I'm happy to have been wrong (I bolded the relevant sentence):

Many of these new Overlord cards have an additional effect if played

My head is exploding at the moment. Whaaaaaat?

I mean, that's awesome if that's the case (well, for the overlord, lol), but it sorts of makes the card even better than Dash in practice!

And the fact Nathan says it should be 6 according to the rules but he has always played it as being 4 is just the iceing on the cake.

Seriously, is that a miss on the card (that it doesn't say "instead") or are you guys fine with playing it by the "rules", which basically state that you get 4+2=6 movement points for a monster figure. That is crazy, man.

I foresee some future rage quits over here. I need to print this response from Nathan otherwise nobody will believe me

To the OP, I´m sorry about the confusion here. I stil think it should be 4 as the Warrior clause looks like itwould replace the normal clause, but if the designer says it's 6 then it's 6, even if said designer's been playing it wrong himself all the time... what a mess!

It makes "Blinding Speed" much more dependent on the warrior- remember, he's got to fail both tests. I don't think it's a misprint on the card- the rulebook makes it clear that the intention is for class specific effects to stack on the originals. I have also always played it with 4- but just accepted that blinding speed is usually worse than dash, but sometimes as good. Now, it's usually worse, but sometimes better. I'm OK with it. I'll get back to you in a second with the math.

OK. Based on the current roster of warrior heroes (not counting the conversion kit or guardians of deephall) there is an average 43% chance that blinding speed will actually net you the full effect. Some heroes (like Trenloe testing against a 1 book + 2 eyeball) have as much as a 69% chance of failing both tests, while others (like Orkell, 4 + 1) have as low as a 24% chance of failing both tests. That's not that bad.

Having to fail both tests to get the benefit is a pretty hard "condition" (if you'll pardon the pun) to meet. the math may make it 43% but that's unaltered 43%, it doesn't take into account rerolls the hero may have, due to otgher heroes in the party (bard anyone?) or due to items that increase the attributes targeted.

If a group of players is playing collaboratively correctly, their first goal should be to shore up each other's weaknesses so as to present a unified front to the OL. In the groups I've played with, this includes purchasing items that help reduce the likelihood of one character (usually the mage, though) failing tests.

Great News for Basic II fans!

Darnit, Zaltyre, I was hoping to sadden my OL...

Now, I'm just gonna have to hunt the forums for tips and tricks...
Though, from what I've seen, there seem to be a lot more threads offering tips and advice to OLs than to heroes...

And when you've got a borderline OCD, system abusing(not breaking, he'd never cheat, but he'll use EVERY loophole) OL, help is sometimes needed...
Maybe it'll get better.

I won't lie, after the beatdowns we suffered(all we managed to win so far was Honor Among Thieves Pt1), I'm genuinely starting to wonder why people think it's fun. And that six movement(it's been 6 every toss, our Grisban is unlucky) has been a big factor I was looking forward to reducing...

But, I figure I'll give it a few more sessions, either way...

There is also help for the heroes. You just have to look for it a bit harder.

Also, a loss is not big deal, since it's the Finale that decides who wins, not how many quests you've won.

So focus on buffing up, go for the loot, buy equipment, improve your skills and get ready to quick buttocks later on!

Darnit, Zaltyre, I was hoping to sadden my OL...

Now, I'm just gonna have to hunt the forums for tips and tricks...

Though, from what I've seen, there seem to be a lot more threads offering tips and advice to OLs than to heroes...

And when you've got a borderline OCD, system abusing(not breaking, he'd never cheat, but he'll use EVERY loophole) OL, help is sometimes needed...

Maybe it'll get better.

I won't lie, after the beatdowns we suffered(all we managed to win so far was Honor Among Thieves Pt1), I'm genuinely starting to wonder why people think it's fun. And that six movement(it's been 6 every toss, our Grisban is unlucky) has been a big factor I was looking forward to reducing...

But, I figure I'll give it a few more sessions, either way...

Probably doesn't help much that you chose Grisban, he's pretty much the worst warrior in the game.

Darnit, Zaltyre, I was hoping to sadden my OL...

Now, I'm just gonna have to hunt the forums for tips and tricks...

Though, from what I've seen, there seem to be a lot more threads offering tips and advice to OLs than to heroes...

And when you've got a borderline OCD, system abusing(not breaking, he'd never cheat, but he'll use EVERY loophole) OL, help is sometimes needed...

Maybe it'll get better.

I won't lie, after the beatdowns we suffered(all we managed to win so far was Honor Among Thieves Pt1), I'm genuinely starting to wonder why people think it's fun. And that six movement(it's been 6 every toss, our Grisban is unlucky) has been a big factor I was looking forward to reducing...

But, I figure I'll give it a few more sessions, either way...

Probably doesn't help much that you chose Grisban, he's pretty much the worst warrior in the game.

Ye gods, has some other Warrior de-throned Eliam?

-Jee

Darnit, Zaltyre, I was hoping to sadden my OL...

Now, I'm just gonna have to hunt the forums for tips and tricks...

Though, from what I've seen, there seem to be a lot more threads offering tips and advice to OLs than to heroes...

And when you've got a borderline OCD, system abusing(not breaking, he'd never cheat, but he'll use EVERY loophole) OL, help is sometimes needed...

Maybe it'll get better.

I won't lie, after the beatdowns we suffered(all we managed to win so far was Honor Among Thieves Pt1), I'm genuinely starting to wonder why people think it's fun. And that six movement(it's been 6 every toss, our Grisban is unlucky) has been a big factor I was looking forward to reducing...

But, I figure I'll give it a few more sessions, either way...

Probably doesn't help much that you chose Grisban, he's pretty much the worst warrior in the game.

Ye gods, has some other Warrior de-throned Eliam?

-Jee

Eliam is a really good skirmisher.

Just for future reference, FFG confirmed our assumption (it is 6 movement points)

(from Kara Centell-Dunk)

I can confirm that if a warrior fails both tests, Blinding Speed grants 6 movement points. “When the [basic II] card is played on a hero that matches the listed archetype, the listed effect for the matching archetype is applied in addition to the card’s normal effect.” (Labyrinth of Ruin, Rulebook, page 4).

Nathan did, indeed, play it for 4 movement points at one point. He now plays it for 6, and as the person often playing against him, in a clutch moment it can certainly disrupt my planned heroics. =)

Thanks for posting the confirmation, Indalecio!

I love that last little bit of information, that gives us a glimpse into the working of the FFG dev team...

Kara is on the heroes' side!

I love that last little bit of information, that gives us a glimpse into the working of the FFG dev team...

Kara is on the heroes' side!

You know...

That is EXACTLY what I thought when I received the response. She's working on the heroes side, which explains the delay in FFG's response to my daily emails So now I know "my" Basic III suggestion has never reached Nathan because of Kara's heroic feat forcing the Overlord to discard a design suggestion

On another note, I wish Nathan himself could share some of his experiences or views on these forums sometimes.. The question I´m asking myself is how much he plays his own game, and what he thinks objectively about balance in general.

Honestly, a designer doing a regular (yearly?) meeting with the community, like a web conference or whatever, would be really nice to keep the community informed and motivated. It would also cut a lot of BS from people constantly trying to evaluate the game's mechanisms and ranting about unfairness and unbalance (yeah... people like me, lol). I mean, either acknoledging that there is work to do to palliate some of these limitations, or just give an explanation as for what makes them think things are all perfect (thinking rumor quests, items power creep etc.).

All in all, is Descent only pouring out additional stuff, or are they trying to correct some of the "mistakes"? The fix to 2-heroes campaign in Heirs of Blood seems to be a move in the right direction and confirms the latter?

I get the impression that the developers play this game a good deal. If I recall there were at least a few improvements made in the last FAQ update (pit spaces, anyone?) and while power creep may be an issue, I do not doubt that balance is beimg considered as content is developed. As you pointed out, it seems heirs of blood has some aspects included to preserve balance.

As far as hearing from the developer(s), we often do in the form of news releases, and there is enough evidence that they are clearly reading the forums. I just assume that the majority of their time is spent designing content, rather than discussing that content with us directly.