Hey everyone, new player here.

We noticed quite quickly that VM does not suit House Stark very well. We put it in the Lannister deck for now but I wanted to hear what you folks do with it.

Just to explain, we are playing with just the core set of cards at the moment while we are learning the game.

furriebarry said:

You might prefer it in Baratheon or Targaryen. With Lightbringer, the duplicate of Robert Baratheon and Retreat (Baratheon), or with Viserys, Maester Aemon and Bodyguard (Targaryen), you might be better able to weather the deaths with these saves.

Valar doesn't work particularly well with any of the Core Set decks unmodified, really.

If you pick up Kings of the Sea - Greyjoy can you use it quite effectively.

Whichever House that needs a strong plot-based character reset in that deck.

In general, Valar works best for you if you've got good saving/CBK and/or good location/event-based control. But even if not, it may be a good way to give a board wiping. The best way to use Valar is to establish what your deck can and cannot do - if you cannot deal with your opponent's characters in other ways, or lack good (and more selective) character removal, Valar may be a good choice. Just be sure that you'll be in better board position than your opponent(s) after the wipe. That can be difficult given it's low gold and initative value.

ktom said:

what is the use for Maester Aemon in the Targaryen Deck???

wouldnt he be better in the Stark Deck?

Aemon is useful in every deck, but by default he is in the Targaryen one.

hmmm,

i dont get it.

his response says: kneel him to save one NW char from beeing killed.

so the only NW char is he in the Targ deck!!!

so he can save himself by kneeling.

is that so good??

he cant participate in any challange!!

so wouldnt he be better in the Stark Core Deck?

or would jon snow and ghost be better in the targ deck???? hmmmmm.

he is good in whatever deck he is in because he gives you a way to deal with a military challenge (by kneeling himself) every turn for the rest of the game.

in the stark deck he saves jon snow from valar and then jon snow can still die next turn....not as efficient.

chrassos said:

He kneels to save himself. Since you choose who dies when you lose a military challenge, you just keep picking him to die, and using him to save himself. On his own, he essentially lets you laugh off one military challenge each round.

Since that is, in a nutshell, all he does (and don't underestimate it!), he probably wouldn't be very strong in the Stark deck because with all their military STR, Stark probably should not be losing many military challenges unless it wants to.

cool

understood

u guys rule

Would someone please clarify how Core Set Viserys can deal with Valar Morghulis?

I know that there's a similar thread on tzumainn, but instead of clearing things up it quite confused me...

you can be saved from the killing effect of valar, so CS Viserys can trigger his text box when valar goes off and be returned to the players hand, then at a wopping one gold you can usually play him again imediatly in the marshalling phase as if valar had never killed him and help to reestablish your board, and more importantly provide claim soak from future military challenges while your board might still be feeling the effects of valar.

michel3105 said:

Well, it's probably misleading that Viserys can "deal" with Valar so much as he himself just kind of rides it through.

Visery's has his own special ability that lets you save him from being killed, then you return him to your hand. So effectively, when Viserys is killed he still leaves play, but he goes to your hand instead of your dead pile. He only costs one gold, so it's pretty easy to just play him again and keep on doing this. Like Maester Aemon continually saving himself, Viserys more or less lets you laugh off a military challenge for the price of 1 gold each round. Pretty good deal.

So Viserys rides out Valar in style by saving himself, returning to hand, then being played two phases later in Marshaling for a nominal cost. That lets you get characters back out quickly and, if it was your Valar and you're worried about your opponent's claim from whatever they were able to save/rebuild, Viserys is ready to do his trick and minimize the pain of your opponent's military challenge the round you play Valar.

That's very clear now, thanks

What I (mis)understood was that first you had to save viserys (by means of duplicates, attachements or whatever response effect), and then his ability was triggered, hence he had to be returned to your hand instead of staying in play. At the end, a very penalizing interpretation...

michel3105 said:

That actually seems to be fairly common misinterpretation of Viserys. Just remember that his Response is "save, then return," not "after you save...." So the save is built in. You don't need an additional save effect to return him to hand.

michel3105 said:

Also, just to be absolutely clear, any other saving effect used on Viserys won't end up with him returned to hand. Only if his printed ability is used to save him will he be returned to hand. Once a save has resolved, that character is saved, and cannot be saved again.