BECAUSE IT SUCKED, OKAY?

Flat out dude, it sucked! It just sucked! Just as much as the prequels!

Now, steady. I agree with your general point, but let's not say stuff we can't take back, eh?

Everything in the prequels is 100% better than most of the EU (save Stackpole, Zahn and Allston), especially anything written by Kevin J Anderson

I cannot agree. There's some utter, utter garbage in the EU, but nothing comes close to the terribleness of the Anakin/Padme "romance" in Episode II. I cannot watch the movie anymore, I find those parts so cringe-worthy.

Look, gents. I want to say something.

My most favorite game of all time, is Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. To this day it is still the single most well designed video game I have ever played. Play it on the hardest difficulty, and you'll see why it makes such an incredible video game. But, as a game from when I was but a youngling... It holds an incredibly special place in my heart. Kyle Katarn is my hero, Jan Ors is one of my biggest crushes and the sole reason I developed a HUGE thing for female pilots, and the things he pulls off are incredible, heroic, and he's just an average guy.

Kyle Katarn is the reason I treasure the story of the average man overcoming greater odds than himself. His old starship, is my most favorite starship in all of Sci-Fi. There is no character more intrinsic to my being than Kyle Katarn.

Yet, the EU wipe may or may not just utterly annihilate Dark Forces as a whole... And I'm willing to accept that loss. If it means we can go forward, if it means we can really, truly get the best out of Star Wars, to get it as far away from The Prequels, The Vong, as possible...

...Then I'm willing to lose Kyle. The Crow. Jan. Not have them in the Canon. I mean, I'm not going to kid around, I see tons of Kyle in Kanan, and Jan in Hera. I like them too- they're not the same, but... Well, that's alright.

But I'm willing to put aside those things, even though they're intrinsic- essentially to my very being, for what I honestly believe is the greater good.

Yet, the EU wipe may or may not just utterly annihilate Dark Forces as a whole... And I'm willing to accept that loss. If it means we can go forward, if it means we can really, truly get the best out of Star Wars, to get it as far away from The Prequels, The Vong, as possible...

You do realise that the Prequels are one of the few things that have retained their canon status, yes?

EDIT: I also question the belief that the new stuff will "get the best" out of Star Wars. Especially since it's not off to the best start. The movie is the big one, of course, but it has everything riding on it. Rebels is a vast improvement over Clone Wars (which is also one of the few things to retain canon status, so maybe that doesn't count), but that was never going to be difficult and it's still not truly great. Not yet. Meanwhile, the new books have been mediocre at best, and unreadable at worst. Heir to the Jedi actually has the dishonour of being just the second book -- Star Wars or otherwise -- that I've ever not finished.

Could the NewEU surpass the old one? Certainly. Will it? Maybe. But it really needs to get its act together before it can.

They'll resurrect Kyle and Jan. I mean, the first EU ship to get into X-Wing was the HWK. That says a lot about its popularity at LFL.

How's this for a hypothesis: the First Order arose after the death of the Emperor and the Battle of Endor. Despite losing a large portion of the galaxy to the Rebels, their own systems remains devout and loyal to the ideals of the New Order. From within those systems, perhaps, we have Episode VII's story, with the Resistance still fighting, supported by the new government established by the Rebels.

Yet, the EU wipe may or may not just utterly annihilate Dark Forces as a whole... And I'm willing to accept that loss. If it means we can go forward, if it means we can really, truly get the best out of Star Wars, to get it as far away from The Prequels, The Vong, as possible...

You do realise that the Prequels are one of the few things that have retained their canon status, yes?

EDIT: I also question the belief that the new stuff will "get the best" out of Star Wars. Especially since it's not off to the best start. The movie is the big one, of course, but it has everything riding on it. Rebels is a vast improvement over Clone Wars (which is also one of the few things to retain canon status, so maybe that doesn't count), but that was never going to be difficult and it's still not truly great. Not yet. Meanwhile, the new books have been mediocre at best, and unreadable at worst. Heir to the Jedi actually has the dishonour of being just the second book -- Star Wars or otherwise -- that I've ever not finished.

Could the NewEU surpass the old one? Certainly. Will it? Maybe. But it really needs to get its act together before it can.

Of course I realize that. What would ever indicate otherwise? I just realize that Disney is doing everything in their power to move far, far away from the Prequel era.

All the old EU has to do to surpass the old is to put the Vong on the grill and serve it as some variant of Sushi.

I don't think the New Republic exists, but I also think there's probably a lot more to the transition from the Empire to the First Order.

They'll resurrect Kyle and Jan. I mean, the first EU ship to get into X-Wing was the HWK. That says a lot about its popularity at LFL.

I seriously hope they do. They're the EU's best characters bar none.

I don't think the New Republic exists, but I also think there's probably a lot more to the transition from the Empire to the First Order.

You see, The New Republic not existing is what REALLY gets me giddy. Because I just... I just never liked it. It never felt right, for them to suddenly be in this position of Galactic Power.

Look, gents. I want to say something.

My most favorite game of all time, is Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. To this day it is still the single most well designed video game I have ever played. Play it on the hardest difficulty, and you'll see why it makes such an incredible video game. But, as a game from when I was but a youngling... It holds an incredibly special place in my heart. Kyle Katarn is my hero, Jan Ors is one of my biggest crushes and the sole reason I developed a HUGE thing for female pilots, and the things he pulls off are incredible, heroic, and he's just an average guy.

Kyle Katarn is the reason I treasure the story of the average man overcoming greater odds than himself. His old starship, is my most favorite starship in all of Sci-Fi. There is no character more intrinsic to my being than Kyle Katarn.

Yet, the EU wipe may or may not just utterly annihilate Dark Forces as a whole... And I'm willing to accept that loss. If it means we can go forward, if it means we can really, truly get the best out of Star Wars, to get it as far away from The Prequels, The Vong, as possible...

...Then I'm willing to lose Kyle. The Crow. Jan. Not have them in the Canon. I mean, I'm not going to kid around, I see tons of Kyle in Kanan, and Jan in Hera. I like them too- they're not the same, but... Well, that's alright.

But I'm willing to put aside those things, even though they're intrinsic- essentially to my very being, for what I honestly believe is the greater good.

you do know the hwk made it into a background shot of mos espa in one of the latest releases right? she's certified canon.

Look, gents. I want to say something.

My most favorite game of all time, is Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. To this day it is still the single most well designed video game I have ever played. Play it on the hardest difficulty, and you'll see why it makes such an incredible video game. But, as a game from when I was but a youngling... It holds an incredibly special place in my heart. Kyle Katarn is my hero, Jan Ors is one of my biggest crushes and the sole reason I developed a HUGE thing for female pilots, and the things he pulls off are incredible, heroic, and he's just an average guy.

Kyle Katarn is the reason I treasure the story of the average man overcoming greater odds than himself. His old starship, is my most favorite starship in all of Sci-Fi. There is no character more intrinsic to my being than Kyle Katarn.

Yet, the EU wipe may or may not just utterly annihilate Dark Forces as a whole... And I'm willing to accept that loss. If it means we can go forward, if it means we can really, truly get the best out of Star Wars, to get it as far away from The Prequels, The Vong, as possible...

...Then I'm willing to lose Kyle. The Crow. Jan. Not have them in the Canon. I mean, I'm not going to kid around, I see tons of Kyle in Kanan, and Jan in Hera. I like them too- they're not the same, but... Well, that's alright.

But I'm willing to put aside those things, even though they're intrinsic- essentially to my very being, for what I honestly believe is the greater good.

you do know the hwk made it into a background shot of mos espa in one of the latest releases right? she's certified canon.

If I recall correctly, we on the forum analyzed that and came to the conclusion it wasn't.

People, there's one thing we're losing sight of, what would the T-70's stats be in our favorite starship combat game? My bit of uninformed speculation/wishful thinking:

PVW: 4

AGL: 3

HULL : 4

SHLD: 3

Actions: Target Lock , Focus, Boost

Upgrades: (Elite), Torpedo, Astromech, System Upgrade.

People, there's one thing we're losing sight of, what would the T-70's stats be in our favorite starship combat game? My bit of uninformed speculation/wishful thinking:

PVW: 4

AGL: 3

HULL : 4

SHLD: 3

Actions: Target Lock , Focus, Boost

Upgrades: (Elite), Torpedo, Astromech, System Upgrade.

You're missing the most important part. Cost. Let's see, an extra die seems to be 7 points (heavy + mangler, HLC on anything but M3A and non-titled YT-2400, EI+Expose). So that brings the PS1 to 27 points. A 3rd agility is probably 5-6 points (3pts for a partial in SD, Reds > Greens, 27 pts for a PS1 E wing vs. 20 pts for PS1 X wing, with the main differences being shield vs. hull (1pt), BR, and 3rd agility)... That brings it to 32 points. And then an additional SU and HU, brings it to 39 points. Boost action brings it to 43.

And then there's the fact that we typically pay more to get something as a mod instead of built in, so figure a 1 point reduction on all of those to bring it back to 39 points.

Let's walk from the phantom. It has 4 attack dice and 23 points PS1. Add 5 points for the 3rd agility, 6 for the two hull, 4 for the shield, brings it to 38 points. Boost over BR adds another 2 points, but the lack of evade removes another. Another 2 points for lack of cloak action. And then a 2 point discount for all of those addons. 35 points. Seems like that's probably about right.

But it better come with one heck of a torpedo since it's better off with it's primaries in almost all cases.

The trailers raise a bunch of questions and it's weird not knowing what the state of the galaxy is.

However, it did answer one big question I've always had: How effective could the little pyre Luke built for Vader possibly be effective?

Answer: It wasn't.

I remember reading in one of the later Vong books (just give me a moment okay?) that not all the galaxy wanted to be liberated. Leia tells Jacen that only about 5% of the galaxy was ever at war because they were such a fringe group. Plus, the human majority often didn't mind the position of power the Empire ushered in for them.

So maybe after Endor the Empire breaks up but many/most of the human systems recommit to the Empire. This would make for an interesting moral and political dilemma. You can't rescue people from themselves if they choose the Empire and still claim to be an organization founded on freedom. Perhaps the Galactic Civil War has become a more officially human v. alien war, the intimidation of the Empire giving way to open Nazi-like (uh, "stormtroopers" remember?) prejudice. This would be a seriously awkward turn of events for the Rebellion, to fight and realize they weren't wanted by many systems who'd grown to like the Imperial ethos. Now the humans who are part of the Rebellion are a minority and you're less a Rebellion to an oppressive order than a Resistance to the largely welcomed order.

That's one of those numbers to justify the scale of a galaxy.

More likely, is that The Rebellion, once seen as bringers of hope, are now seen more as a group that has ended up doing far more harm than good. These last 40 years of war, are all their fault.

Were they just? Yes. But that long of a war ends up wrecking things. I mean, just look at that Super Star Destroyer. Just... Imagine how many worlds have been ravaged by this war that some people have known their entire life? Shoot if Ezra is still alive, he's 60.

60, and his entire life would have been fighting The Empire.

Just to put things into perspective.

Or, more likely, the Alliance and Empire/First Order are at peace. And the Resistance is essentially the new rebellion that has popped up.

Helped in secret by key Alliance personal, of course...

Or, more likely, the Alliance and Empire/First Order are at peace. And the Resistance is essentially the new rebellion that has popped up.

Helped in secret by key Alliance personal, of course...

Conspiracy theories about a fictious universe set in the future but actually a long time ago that are made as new canon over established literature now rendered apocryphal?!

That's, like, so meta dude. [Mind blows fizzles]

**** it jar jar why can't you just work inside established cannon, why do you always change shiz just for the sake of it..

Because the canon at this point in the timeline is terrible?

Not talking about the eu I'm on about changing the names of the factions, going from rebellion to resistance is a down grade in my eyes.

Empire going through changes due to losing the emperor makes sense, but rebel name change is not for the better.

**** it jar jar why can't you just work inside established cannon, why do you always change shiz just for the sake of it..

BECAUSE IT SUCKED, OKAY?

Flat out dude, it sucked! It just sucked! Just as much as the prequels! Alright? Flat out, it sucked. NOTHING was on par to the Original Trilogy- not even the Thrawn Trilogy, which, while good, still wasn't on par to the OT! And don't get me wrong, neither are the friggin' prequels!

But can we just

Can we just stop acting like the EU was so great? To actually like it you REALLY had to cherry pick it.

BECAUSE IT SUCKED, OKAY?

Flat out dude, it sucked! It just sucked! Just as much as the prequels!

See above.

Now, steady. I agree with your general point, but let's not say stuff we can't take back, eh?

Your new so you probably don't know that's how he is, he burnt his bridges with me a long time ago and he will get banned again soon anyway so I'm not bothered.

People, there's one thing we're losing sight of, what would the T-70's stats be in our favorite starship combat game? My bit of uninformed speculation/wishful thinking:

PVW: 4

AGL: 3

HULL : 4

SHLD: 3

Actions: Target Lock , Focus, Boost

Upgrades: (Elite), Torpedo, Astromech, System Upgrade.

Seems too powerful.

POW: 3

AGL: 3

HULL: 3

SHLD: 3

Actions- Target Lock, Focus, Boost, Evade. (Play up that agility, son!)

Upgrades: I'm good with yours, sans Elite as standard.

he will get banned again soon anyway so I'm not bothered.

Gee that's awfully threatening.

he will get banned again soon anyway so I'm not bothered.

Gee that's awfully threatening.

And here comes the victim act again when you get called out on your behaviour, seen it all before.

he will get banned again soon anyway so I'm not bothered.

Gee that's awfully threatening.

And here comes the victim act again when you get called out on your behaviour, seen it all before.

gr8 b8 m8 r8 8/8

Not liking this so much. Things don't get named "first" or "one" until there is a second. Calling something the "first order" implies that there have been additional orders since then, but that text is in the present tense.

So, so, so very true!

Or not, not, not true!

The First World War, for example, was named as early as 1918 per:

http://qi.com/infocloud/the-first-world-war

British Officer Lieutenant-Colonel Charles à Court Repington recorded in his diary for 10 Sep 1918 that he met with a Major Johnstone of Harvard University to discuss what historians should call the war. Repington said it was then referred to as The War, 'but that this could not last'. They agreed that 'To call it The German War was too much flattery for the Boche.' Repington concludes: 'I suggested The World War as a shade better title, and finally we mutually agreed to call it The First World War in order to prevent the millennium folk from forgetting that the history of the world was the history of war.' Between the wars most people did refer to the war as the Great War, even though that had originally referred to the Napoleonic War. In the US, it was ‘The World War’.

Or as late at 1933:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/19/who-named-first-and-second-world-wars

In English, the term "First World War" was used in the book The First World War: A Photographic History, edited by playwright and war veteran Laurence Stallings and published in 1933.

Now, steady. I agree with your general point, but let's not say stuff we can't take back, eh?

IIRC Captain Lackwit actually likes the prequels. I think he's trying to make a point, or maybe doing to others what they've done to him and his preferences.

Yeah, I was just trying to make a point and I do like The Prequels. But, they aren't as good as RoTJ. I mean, for The Force's sake, The Empire Strikes Back is my #1 Favorite Movie of All Time and it's been that way forever. What the hell else can compare?

I actually liked the Thrawn stuff too, but, I just don't view it anywhere near as good as the OT.

Yeah, my tongue was mostly in my cheek. I mean, the prequels DID have Jar-Jar and "FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE JEDI ARE EVIL!". But the EU had slime races and the motherhugging Sun Crusher so, you know. Let's call that a nil-nil draw.

The main thing is that it would be bloody stupid for the new film to be beholden to "established" canon. What works in a novel/comic/whatever doesn't necessarily work on screen, and the new film has a different purpose and a different audience to the EU material. Let's be honest here - the new movies are going to be seen by orders of magnitude more people than who ever gave a toss about anything in the EU. Restricting what stories you can tell and how you can tell them because you want to service "established" continuity that only a relative handful of people know or care about would be wildly irresponsible.