I think everything I didn't like about the Star Trek movies done by JJ (too much focus on action, overly-simplistic story) would make him a solid choice to direct the new Star Wars films.

I also think movie opinions are a subjective thing, and it's difficult to put opinions into words sometimes, so I don't want anyone to feel like they have to defend their opinion of any of the Star Wars movies, but...

The prequels were bad. Like, embarrassingly, terribly bad.

They were. Each one had only a few scenes I liked. Particularly RotS, which while bad, was at least the best of the three.

And some performances were consistently good...(cough) Palpatine (cough)...

The prequels weren't all bad.

Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Palpatine, Jango Fett, Grevious - all cool characters which make for awesome action figures.

Scenes of awesomeness:

Ep1 - Qui-Gon cutting the blast door open with his lightsaber - I was drooling

- Darth Maul giving you your first canon glimpse of a doubel bladed lightsaber - a shame this was in the trailers though.

- Revelation of Padme's decoy - nobody saw that coming.

- End fight scene - was soo good and gave us "Duel of the Fates".

EP2 - You don't Want to sell me Death Sticks - loved it

- Yoda training younglings interupted by Obi-Wan - that scene was both funny and explained why Obi-Wan claimed to have been trained by Yoda

- Jango Fett vs Obi Wan

- Purple Lightsaber! Sam Jackson tearin it up! Also first large scale jedi battle.

-Yoda turning on that saber for the first time - I almost had a geek seizure.

EP3- Entire opening scene was awesome.

- Grevious fighting Obi-Wan - that was awesome!

- Anakin with Palpatine at the Opera - strong scene.

-End double fight scene - Anakin vs Obi Wan and yoda vs palpatine at teh same time!!

- YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!!

The prequels weren't all bad.

Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Palpatine, Jango Fett, Grevious - all cool characters which make for awesome action figures.

Scenes of awesomeness:

Ep1 - Qui-Gon cutting the blast door open with his lightsaber - I was drooling

- Darth Maul giving you your first canon glimpse of a doubel bladed lightsaber - a shame this was in the trailers though.

- Revelation of Padme's decoy - nobody saw that coming.

- End fight scene - was soo good and gave us "Duel of the Fates".

EP2 - You don't Want to sell me Death Sticks - loved it

- Yoda training younglings interupted by Obi-Wan - that scene was both funny and explained why Obi-Wan claimed to have been trained by Yoda

- Jango Fett vs Obi Wan

- Purple Lightsaber! Sam Jackson tearin it up! Also first large scale jedi battle.

-Yoda turning on that saber for the first time - I almost had a geek seizure.

EP3- Entire opening scene was awesome.

- Grevious fighting Obi-Wan - that was awesome!

- Anakin with Palpatine at the Opera - strong scene.

-End double fight scene - Anakin vs Obi Wan and yoda vs palpatine at teh same time!!

- YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!!

Grievous was comically bad. The very definition of cartoon character for kids bad.

They deleted the one scene that actually bothered to demonstrate him being a real monster, probably to "think of the children".

As to Darth Maul being good: He wasn't. He wasn't anything aside from a snarling lightsaber wielder. He was the "only good thing" in that film because he didn't appear long enough to actually be developed. I suspect if he was, he would have been shite. There wasn't any sense of real menace to him... or even competence. Of the bad guys of the trilogy Christopher Lee's was the best, as he at least seemed like someone you could entrust with a job.

Lucas never gave Maul the chance to be menacing. He is in maybe 15 minutes of the movie. He was given the Fett treatment. Badass looking character that doesn't do a whole lot. Had he lived after killing Gui Gon, you would of had a nice cliffhanger to hold on to going into the 2nd movie. Yeah the good guys won, but there is still a Sith out there. Kind of like ANH... Imagine that. You don't gain much at all by watching TPM. Its a expendable movie.

Look at it like this.

Watch the first 10 minutes of a new hope.

We have: torture leading throat crushing, ignoring diplomatic immunities, murder of people on life boats, gunfire killing lots of people. Eventually burned corpses x 2 (murder defenceless Jawas and the aunt and uncle). In other words NOT a PG movie.

In Phantom Menace, it was a resounding kids movie. Add in the terrible directing (those actors were excellent in their other movies) and weird child molestation (Anakin and Padme), and it was a major disappointment. That is why people are still bitter.

People that grew up with it loved it, but it doesnt age well (try watching one of Jim Carrey's old movies.)

Look at it like this.

Watch the first 10 minutes of a new hope.

We have: torture leading throat crushing , ignoring diplomatic immunities, murder of people on life boats, gunfire killing lots of people. Eventually burned corpses x 2 (murder defenceless Jawas and the aunt and uncle). In other words NOT a PG movie.

In Phantom Menace, it was a resounding kids movie. Add in the terrible directing (those actors were excellent in their other movies) and weird child molestation (Anakin and Padme), and it was a major disappointment. That is why people are still bitter.

People that grew up with it loved it, but it doesnt age well (try watching one of Jim Carrey's old movies.)

That parlays into the comment I made about Grievous being a terrible villain. He spends most of his screen time bullying droids. The only scene in which they had him murder a Jedi POW got deleted. He never gets to do anything that really makes him seem to be a credibly dangerous villain.

Even Dooku at least got to preside over a puppet court attempted execution. Most of the rest of his screen time is a waste (which is a shame because it's Christopher Lee).

And Sidious outright murdered people and ordered the murder of people.

Grevious was awesome because he had 4 arms... but youdidn't know it until he separated them... and then OMG he's got lightsabers! And you didn't know he coudl use them because he's a droid but OMG he can! And then he's spinning them like a crazy spinning machine and it was awesome!

I want a grevious SW Black Series 6" figure. Very much.

Grevious was awesome because he had 4 arms... but youdidn't know it until he separated them... and then OMG he's got lightsabers! And you didn't know he coudl use them because he's a droid but OMG he can! And then he's spinning them like a crazy spinning machine and it was awesome!

I want a grevious SW Black Series 6" figure. Very much.

Apparently lots of young kids did like Jar-Jar, but then they were not the audience of the original Star Wars trilogy.

When I rewatched the prequels I did think they were terrible. I was cringing at much of the dialogue, and wincing at much of the rest. However, though I think the original trilogy were better, it wasn't like they were masterpieces of cinema. The dialogue in Star Wars as a whole, prequel and original, was on occasion just as wooden, and frankly some of the actors were not exactly good. In fact, much of the surprise in the prequels is having genuinely good actors giving stilted or insipid performances (which does suggest the problem was script and direction, rather than the actors). The original trilogy had barely any known actors in it. Harrison Ford had been in films, but he was barely a big figure. Only Peter Cushing and Alec Guinness could really have been said to have had much of a profile before Star Wars, and even then I don't actually know how much so in the States. However, the main difference was that the initial film concentrated on being what it was, a pulpy adventure romp. In that context it was very good, especially in the lack of anything similar at that point. The prequels tried to have more character pieces and complicated plotting (which truthfully a story about the fall of a hero probably requires), which didn't really play to Star Wars' (or George Lucas's) strengths.

Personally I am unsure what to make of the new films. The trialers have been exciting, but very little has been revealed (understandably), and I have been disappointed by Abrams take on Star Trek. I am hoping he does a better interpretation of Star Wars (he always said he was more a Star Wars man than a Star Trek man), but I am still worried he will balls it up. My current fear is that the bad guy might be a reincarnated/clone or something of Darth Vader. Now, I will admit I don't have much to go on for that (purely them having the blackened skull and helmet of Darth vader in that trailer), but it is the kind of nonsense Abrams pulls, so I am currently waiting to give judgement. Not keen on the overly sleek stromtroopers though. I didn't think Abrams needed another thing in his films that looked like it was bought in an Apple shop...

As to Darth Maul being good: He wasn't. He wasn't anything aside from a snarling lightsaber wielder. He was the "only good thing" in that film because he didn't appear long enough to actually be developed. I suspect if he was, he would have been shite. There wasn't any sense of real menace to him... or even competence. Of the bad guys of the trilogy Christopher Lee's was the best, as he at least seemed like someone you could entrust with a job.

I think Abrams will do a better ob with Wars then Trek except for one front. His space battles were horrible in Trek because all you saw was the good ships getting crippled in one or two shots and having to ram the enemy or send boarding parties. I don't mind this happening sometimes but four times in two movies is too often especially when the only onscreen space battle this didn't happen in was a simulation with the AI ships crippled by a computer virus after firing a couple of shots. Hell in the last Trek film he did Enterprise never even got a single shot off in the space battle.

I loved the space battles in the OT and was disappointed by the ones in the PT. I'm worried that the space battles in episode VII will continue that disappointment.

Part of Trek's problem is that it isn't... proper for space battles to happen. In Trek the protagonists are supposed to be talking to their enemies to find common ground, not fighting them. So that the Enterprise was one-sidedly curbstomped by the Vengence is, actually, kosher to Star Trek sensibilities. Because only bad guys are warmongers.

Never mind that the best trek movies are the ones with the most action and fighting of course.

If Poe's squadron deploying is not near the climax of the film, I would guess that we haven't seen anything yet of the climactic battle that will ultimately result at the end of this movie (it did for nearly every other one). Poe's squadron could be an introductino to his unit before he gets shot down or reassigned and joins the battle later on.

I would very much like to see more of that new Star Destroyer model though, and I would like to know which Executor model that is wrecked in the sand. Even though the 2-set engines are missing I still think the design is too close to the Executor for it not to be an SSD. They show us a crashed T-65 and some variant of the Imperial II. And if the point of Jakku is to be trashed with OT vehicles for nostalgia sake, why crash a new design that doesn't have the same connection?

One of the things I love about what we see of that Star Destroyer is that really nasty, aggressive blade-like feature extending from the lower portion of the bow... As if to say, we will go through your ship if we have to. I am anxious to see more!

Can't stop watching the trailer!

Part of Trek's problem is that it isn't... proper for space battles to happen. In Trek the protagonists are supposed to be talking to their enemies to find common ground, not fighting them. So that the Enterprise was one-sidedly curbstomped by the Vengence is, actually, kosher to Star Trek sensibilities. Because only bad guys are warmongers.

I'm kind of curious about how much Star Trek you have watched? Yes Starfleet usually tries talking before fighting but when talking fails they have no problems with resorting to fighting. Of the Trek movies pre-Abrams I think there are two where there was some form of space combat. And even in the most one sided of those battles both sides got at least a couple of shots off before the loser was crippled or destroyed.

Uh, in the first new Trek they're fighting a ship from the future, and in the second they're fighting a super warship designed by Khan. I think they get a pass there. I mean, First Contact has the majority of Star Fleet wiped out by a Cube.

The fact this thread devolved into a debate about the prequels really saddens me. The irrational hatred of everything regarding them is really starting to ruin Star Wars for me. The fact it's been a decade since them and people STILL complain about them really shows how immature this community is at times. Then those same people turn around and praise the EU, which is EVEN worse and complain about it being canned.

Come on guys, just love the series entirely and enjoy the movies as one, yes you can chose to not like them but please, for finally ten years later, shut up. We heard all the arguments, we've heard all the reasons. They happened, let's move on.

If they're still cruising around in the Falcon, I don't understand the reason for new xwings, and Ties other than merchandising...

The fact this thread devolved into a debate about the prequels really saddens me. The irrational hatred of everything regarding them is really starting to ruin Star Wars for me. The fact it's been a decade since them and people STILL complain about them really shows how immature this community is at times. Then those same people turn around and praise the EU, which is EVEN worse and complain about it being canned.

Come on guys, just love the series entirely and enjoy the movies as one, yes you can chose to not like them but please, for finally ten years later, shut up. We heard all the arguments, we've heard all the reasons. They happened, let's move on.

I'm with you on this.

If they're still cruising around in the Falcon, I don't understand the reason for new xwings, and Ties other than merchandising...

I would imagie its a little like WWII. Minor changes in armor thickness or going from bolted armor to welded may not seem like much, but they make a world of difference. They may do the same job with only minor visual and mechanical differences but the new one has a real advantage. Besides, its 30+ years elapsed time in Star Wars. Technology wont stand still, especailly during war. The changes and improvements may be small, but any good general or admiral is going to use them to give thier troops an edge. Look up the developments of the Panzer IV and Sherman tanks in WWII to see a real world equivilant.

The fact this thread devolved into a debate about the prequels really saddens me. The irrational hatred of everything regarding them is really starting to ruin Star Wars for me. The fact it's been a decade since them and people STILL complain about them really shows how immature this community is at times. Then those same people turn around and praise the EU, which is EVEN worse and complain about it being canned.

Come on guys, just love the series entirely and enjoy the movies as one, yes you can chose to not like them but please, for finally ten years later, shut up. We heard all the arguments, we've heard all the reasons. They happened, let's move on.

Well, I don't think the hatred is irrational.... There are HUGE problems with the prequels, from plot points that don't make any sense to story points that ruin things from the original trilogy. The fact that things like Midi-chlorians were added to the universe actually make the OT worse.

Sorry you're annoyed by it coming up a lot, but it's hard not to discuss it when the next trilogy is about to start coming out.

For what it's worth, you're not wrong, and if you enjoy the prequels more power to you.

As for the new SSD and ISD it is more likely that JJ and crew just didnt get the ships right and they are supposed to be the originals

The fact this thread devolved into a debate about the prequels really saddens me. The irrational hatred of everything regarding them is really starting to ruin Star Wars for me. The fact it's been a decade since them and people STILL complain about them really shows how immature this community is at times. Then those same people turn around and praise the EU, which is EVEN worse and complain about it being canned.

Come on guys, just love the series entirely and enjoy the movies as one, yes you can chose to not like them but please, for finally ten years later, shut up. We heard all the arguments, we've heard all the reasons. They happened, let's move on.

Some of us were simply stating our opinions. Hell, I own the prequels and watch parts of them on occasion. Doesn't mean I don't have my qualms with them, and time doesn't inherently make me like the stupid things about them. And it doesn't mean I don't love parts of them (the underutilized Maul, pretty much every scene with Palpatine, Ewan MacGregor's very likable and reasonable Obi-Wan, a wookie army - which dammit I wanted to see MORE of, Jango - though kid Boba made me throw up a little, the clones).

I love Star Wars, I grew up with it and a whole room full of Hasbro toys. It's a part of my history and identity. But as a grown man, I am able to look at things with adult eyes and recognize the ridiculous bits (ewoks, gungans, and younglings oh brother ).

You'll never see the prequels not talked about because they part of Star Wars history. A controversial part. That's just how it is. The movies were made and here we are.

I didn't expect it to be so radically different from the ISD.

I'd bet serious money that we get the third wave in the winter (December to February).

I expect that you're right on the timing. However, I think it will be a long while before we see Armada ships from the sequel era (if ever).

I dont know. I think we will see them sooner than later, if only to capitalize on marketing. I think thats part of why the ISD and MC-80 came out so soon. Get some classic "must haves" out of the way so we would not get upset if they start putting new trillogy stuff in. Seriously, could you imagine the hysteria had that new Star Destroyer been introed to the game this winter before the classic ISD?

Totally agree. I thought the big ships would come out after some carrack cruisers and lancer frigates maybe a liberty cruiser and an interdictor before the ships I really wanted. Your point totally solved my confusion. I like the new ship, it's reminiscent of the sds from dark empire comics and some legacy era ships. Hopefully they don't go all in on the Disney series, there are still some ships from the first 6 I would like to see.

Part of Trek's problem is that it isn't... proper for space battles to happen. In Trek the protagonists are supposed to be talking to their enemies to find common ground, not fighting them. So that the Enterprise was one-sidedly curbstomped by the Vengence is, actually, kosher to Star Trek sensibilities. Because only bad guys are warmongers.

I'm kind of curious about how much Star Trek you have watched? Yes Starfleet usually tries talking before fighting but when talking fails they have no problems with resorting to fighting. Of the Trek movies pre-Abrams I think there are two where there was some form of space combat. And even in the most one sided of those battles both sides got at least a couple of shots off before the loser was crippled or destroyed.

I've been watching Star Trek since I was a kid watching ToS Re-runs. I did a pass through most of DS9, parts of Voyager, and a few episodes of Enterprise. Berman-era trek never excited me as much as the original 60s series or the original series movies.

I always felt that Trek fans held the "Exploration of the human condition" in high esteem, and the most ardent of fans abhorred the action-violence. The backlash from hardcore fans to the 2009 Star Trek is evidence of this, because they felt it wasn't star trek anymore with the emphasis on action over exploration.

Meanwhile the Star Wars fans have had no problems with blowing up planets and throwing people into sarlacc pits. What draws me to Star Wars is that action-adventure that Star Wars isn't afraid to display, and the Abrams movies i felt re-captured that adventure that was missing from trek for so, so long, and why I enjoyed them more than most episodes of TNG.

The fact this thread devolved into a debate about the prequels really saddens me. The irrational hatred of everything regarding them is really starting to ruin Star Wars for me. The fact it's been a decade since them and people STILL complain about them really shows how immature this community is at times. Then those same people turn around and praise the EU, which is EVEN worse and complain about it being canned.

Come on guys, just love the series entirely and enjoy the movies as one, yes you can chose to not like them but please, for finally ten years later, shut up. We heard all the arguments, we've heard all the reasons. They happened, let's move on.

Well, I don't think the hatred is irrational.... There are HUGE problems with the prequels, from plot points that don't make any sense to story points that ruin things from the original trilogy. The fact that things like Midi-chlorians were added to the universe actually make the OT worse.

Sorry you're annoyed by it coming up a lot, but it's hard not to discuss it when the next trilogy is about to start coming out.

For what it's worth, you're not wrong, and if you enjoy the prequels more power to you.

You're right, they had problems. However, many of those problems are blown out of proportion and the hate is irrational at this point (RLM exaggerating everything doesn't help). However! When people start *****ing about them and start saying "Hur dur, no prequel ships in my game, hur dur" that's when it starts to **** me off. The fact FFG is avoiding prequel ships in X-wing gives us stuff like wave 7 (not to mention their refusal to do certain gunboats and missile boats) means they are scrapping the bottom of the EU barrel for sub par ships for all factions. Many older craft can be divided in between the 3 groups and have some to spare before episode 7 hits.

We also have people whom will say "I don't want to play against prequel ships because reasons" whom FFG seems to be taking seriously. It's come to the point where Armada might get the REALLY Stupid and obscure ships from the EU before we see stuff like the Venator, Acclamaitor, and others for Empire/Rebels when they start running out of ships. This is NOT a healthy thing for the community because some guys can't accept the prequels happened.

Yes, we all have things we don't like about the movies (The giant space slug from Empire annoys the hell out of me) but we should just get used to the fact Star Wars does have it's turds and move on. Now let's end the prequel debate and focus on the new series.