I was reminiscing over a bunch of beers with bydfues the other day about the last Rogue Trader campaign we've been a part of and we pretty unanimously agreed we blew it with the spaceship part. Most if was due to our starting ship selection: we went with a Frigate as we reasoned a well equipped small ship would perform better than a bare bones larger ship. Also, since frigates are fragile we went for speed and range. Everything went toward those two idead: a Firestorm with a Sunhammer Lance and a Sunsear Laser Battery, archeotech engines, energistic conversion matrix, eldar solar sails the component that removed the long range penalties and a very skilled void master and explorator.

We ended up with a highly effective but completely boring ship: anything slower without Sunsears/Hecutors we could just circle out if range wearing them down with the Macrobattery/Lance combo. If they could keep up/shoot bqck, just go full Evasive Maneuvers (minimum 4 DoS guaranteed at the end) since our gunner was way more likely to hit something than the enemy.

There was also little to strive for in regard to the ship, as it was pretty much complete from day 1 (only item we actually added in game were the solar sails.

Anyway, long story short, what would be your ideal staring vessel? I'm looking for something that's:

- Versatile (can do some battle, some endeavours etc.)

- Useful (so not really 'will be useful once you buy these extra 20 components', I'm more interested in a starting vessel rather than end goal)

- Has room to grow (some free power/space)

I don't have my books on me, but I was always partial to the [Conquest-Class Star Galleon], the [Goliath-Class Factory Ship], and [universe-Class Mass Conveyer]. The first, acting as both a Transport and a Cruiser, has a wide selection of aggressive and non-aggressive ship options from square one. The second has the wonderfully fluffed "Powered by Stars" passive; if nothing else, manoeuvring around a star can inspire all sorts of roleplaying. The third just has so many possibilities seeing its generous Space rating. All of them play to my aesthetic sense as well.

When creating anything from scratch, I look for "unique passives" that can't be obtained later. Thus, my baseline starts with things like the [Turbulent-Class Heavy Frigrate] and the [Meritech Shrike-Class Raider]. Next, I consider outliers or those that "play against type", such as the [Orion-Class Star Clipper]. Lastly, I consider what I'm looking for in a ship and decide from there. Admittedly, while I've never played a game of Rogue Trader, I enjoy the shipbuilding system.

We went for a Dauntless Class light cruiser with Macros, Torpedoes, 2x speed warp drive and some of those fancy split up cargo bays and empyrean mantle. Later on we added Teleportatorium, better Gellar field and external garden-thingy component.

(Yes, we started with 15 Profit Factor.)

The ship is awesome because it gets big-ship grade gear but it's still very agile. We can get a decent amount of cargo on the ship, we are very good at fighting all kinds of ships, and if we run into something too dangerous we can just hide very easily.

I think in some ways you're better off doing the low PF high SP thing and then getting a really big, but under-equipped ship. That way the PCs can upgrade the ship and improve it over time, and there would be more satisfaction having earned the better ship through play.

I'm rather inclined to agree. You might start with nice cash, and a crumby ship, hoping to up the cash, and then just buy better, but you have to find something, and then pay more to fill it up with Rogue Trader flagship rated goodies, but regardless of what you are doing, be it flying around, raiding enemies, traipsing through ruins better left alone, or whatever else your party can think to do, the PF is what will go up, whether you use the ship, or not, whether you see any good ships/ship components you MIGHT be able to pilfer along the way. Finding a part here or there will be easier than finding a ship, and the parts, and either pay out your ass for them to all be together, or wait for someone to put all the paid for pieces together.

Me being me, and not always the smartest builder, I prefer the idea of going big, and then getting big parts to oomph it up. My two RT builds, while certainly not strung together through the happenstance of actual play, both favored the cruiser hull; one a Tyrant, and the other a Dictator, and I've liked the idea of both. You might save some points, and go Light Cruiser, but they aren't always popular. Of course, it also depends on what your party wants to do. Pirates and waylayers will want speed, so probably NOT a Cruiser, but crews that want to duel it out in space, punching Orks' teef out, or shattering the glass hulls of Eldar pirates, might want a bigger ship, to carry bigger guns, and survive more punches. I like the idea of knowing what you want, letting the initial PF take a bit of a hit, if need be, and then recouping it through the general progress of the game.

Vruiser is what we were thinking too. That or Onquest Star Galleon.

Frigates seem quite limiting and battle/grand cruiseres are so expensive odds are you won't even be able to fully arm it from the get go.

As far as cruisers go, does anything beat the Dictator?

Dominator can be better in combat. Any cruiser is better than dictator in orbit-to-surface bombardments or long patrols far from inperial space.

Also, people complainig about escorts having no room to grow (which is arguable) seem to forget that you can have several vessels in your fleet if you can afford them.

Dominator can be better in combat. Any cruiser is better than dictator in orbit-to-surface bombardments or long patrols far from inperial space.

Also, people complainig about escorts having no room to grow (which is arguable) seem to forget that you can have several vessels in your fleet if you can afford them.

Also, my main thing against multiple ships is that they will be operating at NPC crew levels of effectiveness.

Yeah, it'll also directly depend on allowances of the GM. If you use the main book, or even stuff, but NOT BFK (why? I don't know, but maybe your GM likes the whole "Rogue Traders and the Navy often forgo the use of torpedoes and attack craft, in favor of more big guns on true warships" BS, and if they take those weapon systems away, bye bye Dictator. If all of that goes, it's very good, and if you look around here, you'll find hints on maximizing attack craft that beg the question "what DOESN'T the the Navy like about these? They can kill anything, with next to no losses."

If you want an escort, also maybe ask if you can purchase exceptional NPCs, before you commit to it. The Exalted Wyrm , for instance, is a powerful ship, as torp-toting Tyrant cruisers often are, but any big ship will tell you that having little brothers isn't always all bad, and the Wyvern , a Hovoc merchant raider also armed with torpedoes, because Aedan spends like crazy, makes sure the Wyrm gets home safe, but he wouldn't use it if its captain was "only crew level", and she's set up to be very good, probably the best his money can buy, plus some story elements. So, like with some other stuff, make some inquiries, before you commit to anything (if the GM is going to bump up the NPCs as you improve, and they should, if you've ever seen one of their stat blocks, they might also allow your NPC help, in places to get substantially better.)

Bombers can be intercepted by planet-based interceptors, and a planet can hold way more aircraft than a single carrier - not to mention surface-to-air defences. Lance beam, on the other hand, cannot be intercepted, is much more potent, precise, does not need to be replenished, and can be fired from outside planetary defense envelope.

You don't need to make much rolls for your extra ships. Buy a scout sloop with passive sensors, have it scouting far ahead of you on silent running. Buy a dedicated transport to carry your own little army, or lots of booty which you just can't store on a capital ship made for combat - better still, buy two of them. Buy a luxury star clipper, it's hull clad with jade, with sensorium, melodium, glided hull, best-craftsmanship crew improvements and the like - then approach that daughter of planetary governor you absolutely need to marry before your rival does, and offer her a voyage. Buy an old Secutor, a venerable relic of Mechanicum Calixis and a veteran of hundreds of deep-void runs, then use it as a flying laboratory/librarium as you explore the unknown reaches of Astra Incognita.

Lunar or Dauntless, but the Lunar takes the cake. You need a handful of components really to make it useful in most Endeavours and if you're using vanilla rules for space combat and not Mathhammer and its various variants you'll only need standard macrobatteries.

Plenty of room to grow. Forgiving of many mistakes, and it turns heads. Cruisers aren't that common after all.

Lunar or Dauntless, but the Lunar takes the cake. You need a handful of components really to make it useful in most Endeavours and if you're using vanilla rules for space combat and not Mathhammer and its various variants you'll only need standard macrobatteries.

Plenty of room to grow. Forgiving of many mistakes, and it turns heads. Cruisers aren't that common after all.

Isn't it worth paying the extra 1 SP for the 2 extra space of the Tyrant?

My three times as a player in RT games I wasn't involved in the ship build, either because I was joining a game already in progress, or because the GM made the ship along our general guidelines. As a GM I made about a dozen ships, ranging from 30sp to 80sp, and let the players decide. The ships varied on theme and purpose and about 1/3 of them had significant empty space/power as room to grow. The thing is, unless every component is Best Craftsmanship, you've got all the Ship Upgrades, and the best possible NPC crew men you can imagine, even a ship with 0 space and 0 power remaining has room to grow. I haven't seen a single ship build that literally can't be challenged. by anyone or anything. Quick and long range weapons? Silent running, Ork or Rak boarding actions, nova cannon roulette, ,

I figure you should build your first ship for the play style you want the game to run.

Do you want the important stuff to happen on the ground with Kirk and the away team, or with your military forces, or your political intrigue? Then get a relatively cheap ship with a teleportarium/barracks/ostentatious displays of wealth and have a high profit factor in order to kit out the player characters themselves.

Want to be a fleet admiral? Then grab yourself something tough and good at hit and run/boarding and focus on capturing enemy ships for components/hulls. Salvage systems, barracks, murder servitors, disruption macro cannons, Storm troopers, etc.

Want a generalist that can get by most place because you're new to the game, or not sure what type of play style you want? Then get a nice frigate like a Sword or Turbulent and toss on a spread of enhancement and Achievement components with some decent guns and leave a little space blank.

If you build a ship murderer I'm going to assume you want a space combat heavy game and put together stuff to challenge you on that level, which is very possible to do.

If you want a very capable ship that will last you a while, Dauntless class Light Cruiser, Macrocannon Batteries and a Lance and go from there.

My old group survived well into Rank 8 with that thing just plugging away at buying Good and Best quality upgrades and other components.

We started with 30PF and 60SP iirc built up a great Vessel.

Another Group, we started with a Grand Cruiser. This made life hard. we had so little PF we couldn't afford to buy anything, the GM was generous and gave us 5 PF from out first adventure which got us to 21PF... yep. Made for a blood tedious start not being able to buy anything.

My three times as a player in RT games I wasn't involved in the ship build, either because I was joining a game already in progress, or because the GM made the ship along our general guidelines. As a GM I made about a dozen ships, ranging from 30sp to 80sp, and let the players decide. The ships varied on theme and purpose and about 1/3 of them had significant empty space/power as room to grow. The thing is, unless every component is Best Craftsmanship, you've got all the Ship Upgrades, and the best possible NPC crew men you can imagine, even a ship with 0 space and 0 power remaining has room to grow. I haven't seen a single ship build that literally can't be challenged. by anyone or anything. Quick and long range weapons? Silent running, Ork or Rak boarding actions, nova cannon roulette

While you are technically right, it's one thing to have like 5-10 power and 5-10 space left over and be able to go like 'I think I'd like to do some planetary invasion stuff, let's buy a barracks' and completely different thing to be on a frigate with 0 space and 0 power left, and have to think like 'I think I'd like to do some planetary invasion stuff, if I upgrade 5 or so components to best craftsmanship, taking maybe 3 RL months of side quests I can get a barracks'.

Also, I never claimed there are builds that couldn't be challenged, rather that there are builds (like the frigate we did) that you need to specifically tailor in order to challenge, because they absolutely shred run of the mill opponents that were not prepared for them specifically. When the kinds of encounters you can throw at your players fits on the back of a bus ticket, then the game quickly becomes boring and repetitive.

With a frigate you have more than enough PF to hire someone to make planetary invasion for you

The last game I played in, we started with a Conquest-Class Star Galleon. Low profit factor and powered ship is a fun incentive to get those endeavours done.

I'm also a fan of the Turbulent-class Frigate and the Repulsive-class Grand Cruiser. The Universe-class Mass Conveyor is fun too, we got one as a massive troop transport alongside the Conquest.

I really do like the Conquest; I frequently have to remember that it looks more like what it does than some age of sail pirate ship. I understand why, but still really do wish, though, that it had a prow mount. Still, the first expanded NPC/story dynasty I fleshed out had a warrant that came complete with one of these ancient vessels, since it was an ancient warrant (won't make you roll eyes with the details that smack of my twink-writing), and while the bearer favored his Dictator, the Conquest was a great fallback vessel. If I was actually playing in a game, and had to choose a ship, if it was available, and we weren't going for a more military themed craft, the Conquest is one I would whine and push for the group to pick, for the panache, if nothing else. Militarily, I'd favor the Dictator or, barring carriers, the Tyrant. Cruisers might not be the best for everything, but I still like to know I've got that oomph if we need it, in the inevitable ship battles to come.

I really think Conquest is the ideal starting ship. It's exactly like what a Rogue Trader should want. It can be a military ship, or a diplomacy ship, or a carrier, or just an oversized cargo hold often all at once.

I like the conquest as a starting ship, so long as you don't care over much about being mobile. It's a bit weak as a non-carrier warship though, due to the armor/turret/limited weaponry. The price is right though, and it's sturdier and just as quick as most transports.

I asked my guys a couple questions and then built then went with a high SP low PF sort of deal(like 73 SP I think). A really decked out ambition class cruiser, that makes short work of most ships it runs up against. Something that would be hard to buy even with a high PF group. They like it because they didn't have to worry about having to hunt down a badass capital ship to anchor their battle group. They could just steamroll others out the gate and start collecting weaker ships from jump. It fit their concept of a new money rogue trader who just got their Warrant as a reward when they themselves weren't from great wealth. They wanted to have a martial bent to everything, and they wanted a tough ship so that if it turned out they didn't take to naval combat at least when it did come up it would be easy.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127634-on-the-virtues-of-the-lathe-cruiser-or-why-not-just-get-a-dauntless/?p=1343727

So I wrote up some ships specifically that seem interesting... specifically, the Swiftwind, as a 'better than many' transport, though a Carrack or Orion would work as well. And I think I've come up with an interesting idea for a 35 ship point starter ship... with a focus on getting the dynasty a lot of money very quickly, AND being relatively easy to get MORE of these ships (for MORE profit, you could actually just buy these things if your PF gets high enough!)... and they are designed to travel in a gaggle, and be very very useful at protecting one another... and a starting Rogue Trader group can start with 2... Thoughts?

Swiftwind Carrier-Merchant Loadout

Lathe

miloslav

Gellar Field

Commerce Bridge

Single Void

M-100 Augur

Bilge Rat Quarters

Integrated Main Cargo Hold

Main Cargo Hold

Main Cargo Hold

Hold Landing Bay

Hold Landing Bay

Luxury Passenger Quarters

Luxury Passenger Quarters

Luxury Passenger Quarters

The idea is that get a few of these, and they can all protect one another with tonnnsss of fighters and bombers, and still make lots of money with the cargo hold and passenger quarters...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/127634-on-the-virtues-of-the-lathe-cruiser-or-why-not-just-get-a-dauntless/?p=1343727

So I wrote up some ships specifically that seem interesting... specifically, the Swiftwind, as a 'better than many' transport, though a Carrack or Orion would work as well. And I think I've come up with an interesting idea for a 35 ship point starter ship... with a focus on getting the dynasty a lot of money very quickly, AND being relatively easy to get MORE of these ships (for MORE profit, you could actually just buy these things if your PF gets high enough!)... and they are designed to travel in a gaggle, and be very very useful at protecting one another... and a starting Rogue Trader group can start with 2... Thoughts?

Swiftwind Carrier-Merchant Loadout

Lathe

miloslav

Gellar Field

Commerce Bridge

Single Void

M-100 Augur

Bilge Rat Quarters

Integrated Main Cargo Hold

Main Cargo Hold

Main Cargo Hold

Hold Landing Bay

Hold Landing Bay

Luxury Passenger Quarters

Luxury Passenger Quarters

Luxury Passenger Quarters

The idea is that get a few of these, and they can all protect one another with tonnnsss of fighters and bombers, and still make lots of money with the cargo hold and passenger quarters...

You can't have more than one Hold Landing Bay, it must be installed in the pre-equipped Main Cargo Hold of a Transport. Ignoring that, the Orion ran out of space after the second Luxury Passenger Quarters, and it has more space than the other two ships mentioned. An interesting idea though.

Following a similar line of thought with an Orion: (with 1 archeotech from Planet-Bound, or Warrant Origin choices)

Modified Lathe Drive; Miloslav Warp Engine; Gellar Field; Single Void;

Commerce Bridge, Vitae Life Sustainer, Bilge Rat quarters, M-100;

Main Cargo Hold, Luxury Passenger, Munitorium, Observation Dome, Temple-Shrine, Sunsear Laser Batteries x2

With Planet Bound I'm guessing replace the Temple-Shrine with a Teleportarium.

A fair amount of bonus Achievement points, a fairly decent punch at a range, coming in at 35 SP

Ah, you're right, INTEGRAL main cargo hold only. Hmmm... Tricky!

How about...

Lathe 1
miloslav
Gellar Field
Commerce Bridge
Single Void
m-1.r Life Sustainer
M.201-B Augur
Bilge Rat Quarters
Integrated Main Cargo Hold
GS Main Cargo Hold
Main Cargo Hold
Jovian Missile Batteries
Hold Landing Bay
Luxury Passenger Quarters
Luxury Passenger Quarters
Luxury Passenger Quarters

Assuming "GS Main Cargo Hold" means a Good Craftmanship hold, with a reduction to the space it takes up, then yes this would work in an Orion. Looks like it comes in at 35 SP as well. . .

Be wary with it though. The Bilge Rat and the 3 Luxury Quarters combine to a -12 to Morale. . . you will be capping at 88% and lose an additional 1 due to the life sustainers with every morale loss. This is a ship that runs, and runs well. If all the compartments are taken advantage of that would be a +550 to each trade endeavor. . . just don't get shot