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In regards to what Disney would or wouldn't do, back in the day Lucas sued ABC/MCA/Universal over the rights to displaying blaster bolts on screen in Battlestar Galactica. There was a negotiation and it was settled the hand weapons wouldn't but the ships could. Lucas filed suit against Ronald Reagan for saying Star Wars in his SOTU address back in the 80s. So actual holders of copyrights will go to pretty considerable lengths to defend their IP when you are talking big bucks.

Well I am pretty sure you are fully confused about what you just typed there. First you said the Player has 100% copyright, then proceeded to say nevermind Disney does.

It is because of people that think of copyrights and stakeholders that we have to click through EULAs.

So as a GM am I going to have to force new Players to fill out a legal document that they won't sue me when I give them Obligation? that changes "their" story. Or what about if I send a baddie that is just too hard and their character is dead. Do I have to worry about changing their story in that method too? now they are dead...

No. The GM is in control. The GM is in charge. That is even stated in the bloody Core Rule Book. That means they get to do what they want to a character be it PC or NPC in their game. You can dispute it and take them to court for killing your character all you want, but Disney, Fantasy Flight Games, will not send lawyers to give a crap about this PC that died or didn't die.

When a Player leaves, that PC is now an NPC, end of story.

I'm not confused at all. Any artist has first amendment rights to anything they create. It's what they do with it after that fact that muddies the waters.

I'm simply pointing out there are essentially no legal paths available to resolve this and in regards to rights involved.

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When people discuss rights, they are discussing legalities, not rules in a game book. I think you're blending the conversation about rights vs game rules. I pointed out early on, there are no real rights that would lead to some legal confrontation for either party. I also pointed out it's not terribly nice of the GM when a backspace key and a few minutes of typing could make it a non issue . I also pointed out there is nothing a player could really do.

I am ending my contribution to this farce.

I guess I don't see what the problem is - if you're leaving a story, what's the harm in the story continuing with your character? Are you planning to come back? Do you feel that events that occurred in one GM's story should impact the story another GM tells? What am I missing here that makes this such a big deal?

When people discuss rights, they are discussing legalities, not rules in a game book. I think you're blending the conversation about rights vs game rules. I pointed out early on, there are no real rights that would lead to some legal confrontation for either party. I also pointed out it's not terribly nice of the GM when a backspace key and a few minutes of typing could make it a non issue . I also pointed out there is nothing a player could really do.

So your argument of my point is "you know how this guy said the law cant/wont do anything? I disagree, the Law can't/wont do anything"

I am ending my contribution to this farce.

That's not what I'm saying at all, take the disagreement a step further. Say the GM is good at writing and secures a deal to write a book in the Star Wars universe. He then in turn uses the character created by the player and doesn't give credit, in whatever form, then the player who originally created that character could potentially have legal grounds, particularly if they too were a writing professional. Like I said, what is done afterwards determines what, how, and if, the legal system were to become involved. In this basic incident the OP outlined there is no real "right" to anything by either party, it's just an argument, the law isn't going to do anything about that.

Part of roleplaying games is telling stories, if a player asked me to effectively write his contributions out of a story because he couldn't participate in telling more, they have essentially forfeited any say whatsoever about what happens in the story going forward. they stopped contributing.

That said unless the character somehow adds something to the story I feel warrants keeping, I usually prefer to write a character out of the storyline at a point convenient to the ongoing story.

Hey, Sturn, you got any of that popcorn left?

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

That's because it was fascinating that the issue needed such a thread to be resolved...

You both are friends so, just argue and let him know how do you feel, sure you both will find an agree point there

Remember, fun first. Rules are only for dices and the mechanics, the rest is just friends playing a great story.

Take care mate!

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

That's because it was fascinating that the issue needed such a thread to be resolved...

I wasn't going to be the one to mention one could file one's character under Creative Commons, but I guess I am!

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

I was thinking the same thing, thanks again Shado !

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

I was thinking the same thing, thanks again Shado !

You're welcome. I guess since you and I didn't have the too-eagerly-anticipated flamefest, others felt the need to fill in.

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

I was thinking the same thing, thanks again Shado !

You're welcome. I guess since you and I didn't have the too-eagerly-anticipated flamefest, others felt the need to fill in.

Why, it's almost like you two were airing your dirty laundry just to start a ruckus! But you guys wouldn't do that, would you?

Why, it's almost like you two were airing your dirty laundry just to start a ruckus! But you guys wouldn't do that, would you?

I wouldn't; I won't presume to speak for anyone else. But I can see how it might look that way. I've enough to keep me busy and entertained without doing something silly like going out of my way to start a 'ruckus'. Besides, I'm sure that flamebait/trolling is a warning-worthy action on this forum and I'd like to keep my clean record, thank you.

Absent of asserting copyright stake in it, they are actually a "contributor" to the GM's story and thus the GM would be the Copyright holder. The Player agreed to allow their character into that universe and thus it because part of that work. That means it would be hurting the rights of the GM and other Players, which would all have grievances against the person being removed from their collaborative effort.

Not necessarily. I go and create the concept, I write up an extensive back-story (as I've been sometimes prone to do), I write up a home planet - all of this material, going strictly by the letter of the law, is under my copyright. After the start of the game, I dont know how that would fall - but the writeup before the start of the game? That's all mine.

So does this one person's Rights trump the rights of all the others involved and their rights?

Mind you, I'm not saying that players should start throwing around supeanas and summons - if your table has gotten to the point where lawyers are getting involved, you've got much more serious troubles than player-vs-gm - but technically speaking, I'm within my rights to say "no, you cant use my intellectual property".

At the point you start getting into Rights and copyright, and legal and all that BS you need to calm down and realize one glaring thing. It is a game.... a fun game, but a game...

In that I have no particular horse in this race - and I'm comfortable enough with my friends that if I had to bow out for some reason that there's about 1,480 points of reasonable accord that we'd come to before we hit the "Deploy The Lawyers" stage - I'm not particularly worked up here. I was just stating what I know about copyright law from an artists' standpoint as an point of discussion, nothing more.

I doubt a character made by a player in the Star Wars universe is going to pass the muster for legal standing next to the 100 foot tall robotic mouse that would show up to any actual suit......

I suppose if you ever found yourself in a position where you could make a profit from your campaign, the smart thing to do would steal a page from the 50 Shades of Gray playbook (which, as I understand it, started out life as Twilight Fan Fiction) and file the serial numbers off. Take your now non-Disney material, set it in a Public Domain Space Opera setting with Kung Fu Monks and Laser Swords and go from there.

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

I was thinking the same thing, thanks again Shado !

You're welcome. I guess since you and I didn't have the too-eagerly-anticipated flamefest, others felt the need to fill in.

I have zero interest in being involved in a flamefest. But watching one ....well you know, it's like NASCAR, we go there to see a crash !

It's fascinating that after the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties involved, then the thread exploded.

I was thinking the same thing, thanks again Shado !

You're welcome. I guess since you and I didn't have the too-eagerly-anticipated flamefest, others felt the need to fill in.

I have zero interest in being involved in a flamefest. But watching one ....well you know, it's like NASCAR, we go there to see a crash !

Every time I come to read a new post in this thread, I always go back to post #11 and shake my head...

Like I said, I was just posting what I know about how copyright works as a hypothetical exercise. Nothing more.

Like I said, I was just posting what I know about how copyright works as a hypothetical exercise. Nothing more.

Your understanding is very similar to my own (I work in television).

Continuing the exercise, I'm curious what you would think about a situation that came up in our LARP games recently.

Player in Game 1 becomes the Owner of Game 2, and decides to use his character from Game 1 as an NPC in Game 2.

Owner of Game 1 threatens to sue Owner of Game 2 because he believes the character is his IP.

Excellent dialogue here.. I think we can consider this thread done.

You just had to say that, didn't you?! Despite it being true, it was an irresistible challenge to anyone who wanted one last/more word!

Excellent dialogue here.. I think we can consider this thread done.

You just had to say that, didn't you?! Despite it being true, it was an irresistible challenge to anyone who wanted one last/more word!

If this were Jedi Training.. I can see Yoda failing most of us and chiding us in his adorable way...

If this were Jedi Training.. I can see Yoda failing most of us and chiding us in his adorable way...

Solved, the problem was. Silly, to continue debate is. The new trailer, frame by frame, studying we should be. Much pointless speculation, there is to be made.