Long story short... I was recently playing in a PbP game. The GM is doing a great job with it, and I was really disappointed I had to step away for personal reasons. I asked him nicely to not use my character, or to at least change the name and all of the story background that I wrote. I would like to use the character again in a future game and not have it used by someone else. I feel like I put the work in and he should not have the right to simply "seize"it. Am I wrong here?

It's not nice since you asked, but in regards to 'rights' there isn't anything to be done there.

Well... as a GM what would you do? Personally I would honor a players wishes, to me it is coming off like he is mad that I dropped, and this is his "getting back at me". I understand there are no "legal rights" but what would be considered the proper etiquette?

Proper etiquette to me is easy, just do what you asked. That's just being polite, didn't used to require any level of codification, I guess I'm old fashioned.

Personally I would just do what you asked, it's not like if another PC is needed they couldn't attract someone else or just have another player make a second PC to run.

Thanks I appreciate it, because I was feeling like I was in the wrong. I do feel bad I left the other players, but like I said there are personal reasons, that the GM is well aware of, but obviously not sympathetic too.

Well there is no cure for jerk yet that doesn't involve socially unacceptable levels of profanity and/or violence, so probably better off with just finding a new group when you are ready.....

I agree that legally that aren't any rights concerned with a PC. However there is still such a thing as good sportsmanship. If one of my group members asked me not to use his character, I would simply hand him the sheet and spec a character as an NPC to cover any skills gaps that member would be creating by leaving.

If the GM is unsympathetic towards any reason that a member cites for leaving, then that GM should rethink his priorities a bit. Yes, it's frustrating to have a member leave as it can feel like a failure on the GM's part. But the GM should never act negatively toward a player's leaving.

to at least change the name and all of the story background that I wrote.

First, no one 'seized' the character. The GM simply declined to delete a character that was in the middle of an ongoing combat. As for the above-quoted text, this portion of the request was not made by the departing player. Had it actually been made it would have been honored by the GM. The player only asked for complete removal of the character without any regard whatsoever to how it would disrupt the game he quit.

to at least change the name and all of the story background that I wrote.

First, no one 'seized' the character. The GM simply declined to delete a character that was in the middle of an ongoing combat. As for the above-quoted text, this portion of the request was not made by the departing player. Had it actually been made it would have been honored by the GM. The player only asked for complete removal of the character without any regard whatsoever to how it would disrupt the game he quit.

Actually I did edit it to say that. Then it was deleted, and all communication was blocked. A matching PM was also sent and copied to the shout. I could post links here if need be? None the less I really did enjoy the game, and i am sorry I had to go.

Actually I did edit it to say that. Then it was deleted, and all communication was blocked. A matching PM was also sent and copied to the shout. I could post links here if need be? None the less I really did enjoy the game, and i am sorry I had to go.

Your character's name has been changed and almost all of his non-crunch verbiage has been deleted. This will have to suffice until a replacement player comes in and the remnants of the character can be permanently removed.

Excellent dialogue here.. I think we can consider this thread done.

Excellent dialogue here.. I think we can consider this thread done.

Maybe, I'm not so sure. I agree that common courtesy would be to respect the wishes of the author of the character. But remember that the point of EotE is cooperative story telling. Players are participating in an overall story created by a GM, who is in turn operating in an even greater story created by George Lucas and many many other authors. Imagine what this game would be like if we had to ignore the contributions of West End Games. (ISB and Inquisitors, Tramp Freighters, the entire Minos Cluster, Privateers - all gone)

Personally, if a long term player had to leave my game, I would be the one asking what they wanted to do with their character. (I run an open game at my FLGS, and there are many short term players, mostly using Lowhhrick, so no issues really) I'm familiar with soap opera format, so it's easy for me to write a character out, either temporarily or "permanently."

This also looks like a good thing to include in a "session zero" if anyone foresees it being an issue. I recently had to leave a Heroes Unlimited game that a friend was running. The GM was sad, and shared with me the plot that had been outlined. If I return later, I would be creating a new character, because all the secrets are out now. This was fine, because he had gone through the work of creating these events. Being a storyteller myself, I know I wouldn't be able to hold it in if there was any uncertainty about being able to play it out.

I have to say, Session Zero is probably one of the best ideas I've picked up on this forum. So many problems avoided. Of course, my campaign was already in full swing, but with new players rotating through, having these things in a google doc is pretty handy.

Overall, I would say this is one of those greyish area subjects. Ultimately, unless the GM premade characters for people, I would say that the PC is primarily the creation of that player. However, once that character has entered into the game the story is a collaborative one and belongs to the group.

A good GM will respect the wishes of the player in regards to the character being taken out of the game. However, the player should also have the expectation that this will be done as a natural part of the story. It can potentially be disruptive to the group if suddenly a character doesn't exist anymore, especially in the middle of combat.

This may include finishing off the current scene and having the character part ways with the group, having the character killed off or flee and their fate unknown to the group, etc.. because just dropping out and expecting the GM to now complete the scene short a character or take the time to rework the story of your character and explain these changes to the rest of the group is also inconsiderate to the GM and the rest of the party.

Am I immature and morally bankrupt that I was about to go pop some popcorn in anticipation after post #8?

I would do as the player asked, but there is of course a but. If the player left in the middle of a battle as described, I would have responded with: "Sure I won't use your character after I find a convenient and realistic way to remove him...we are in the middle of a battle". If having the PC take a blaster shot to the forehead in the next round would have been a huge problem for the adventure, I would have simply made something up at the end of the session. The GM shouldn't continue to use your creation (morally speaking, not legally), but the player should not be upset if he waits for a proper moment to remove his character. If he objects to this, it's kinda like saying screw you guys, I'm going home, and taking the basketball away in the middle of a game when you only have a football to continue with.

ETA: As a GM I've tried to turn a PC leaving into something beneficial for the campaign, if possible. If the player doesn't want me to use his character (never happened, ever) then I wouldn't use it. But, it can be a fun thing even while losing a party member and player. Dramatic death of a loved character? Set him up as a new resourceful NPC contact for the party? Or, the opposite. The Jedi Padawan has to leave the group? He tended to not get along with the other characters? He is SO turning to the dark side and returning as a nemesis.

This is all very insightful and I appreciate that people are chiming in. I also appreciate the fact that things defused quickly after post #8. If anything that post should be very telling to how the discussion went in the PbP. I was not offered any choices, such as "hey mind if I find a way to play him out of the story". As a matter of fact I wasn't even asked (as a small courtesy) do you mind if we continue using your character for a bit? Instead one of my posts were deleted, then I was completely blocked from communicating. I am not posting this to cause some unnecessary drama. I am posting to give insight to what actually went down and why I feel how we as GMs sometimes forget, Life Happens.

As GMs you are likely seeing this from the GM's perspective. I am GM as well, and believe it or not I sympathize with the position my leaving has put him in. What I don't sympathize with is the how he handled the situation. I agree 100% that departing his game is disruptive. Had he taken a moment of his time and simply mentioned "let me play this guy out of the story", or maybe "hey we really need your character, do you mind if we use him?" My feelings on this may have been quite a bit different. But as it stands, if anything it is a valuable lesson, that I will always make sure my players receive the same courtesies that I expect.

Actually I did edit it to say that. Then it was deleted, and all communication was blocked. A matching PM was also sent and copied to the shout. I could post links here if need be? None the less I really did enjoy the game, and i am sorry I had to go.

Your character's name has been changed and almost all of his non-crunch verbiage has been deleted. This will have to suffice until a replacement player comes in and the remnants of the character can be permanently removed.

Appreciated. Good luck on the rest of the game.

Quite honestly really, if the way the situation was handled bothered you that much my best recommendation would be simply don't play in that GM's games anymore as you are likely to run into other conflicts as well. And if that is the case, does it really matter what he does with the character in that case? Play the character the way you want in another game, what happened to the previous incarnation in another game really doesn't affect your ability to do that.

Talk about first world problems...

I asked him nicely to not use my character, or to at least change the name and all of the story background that I wrote. I would like to use the character again in a future game and not have it used by someone else. I feel like I put the work in and he should not have the right to simply "seize"it. Am I wrong here?

I know I am late to the party but this whole situation confuses me. I know this is the 21st century and branding and ownership entitlements are quite over exaggerated, but I have zero clue how this is a thing.

Player A joins with multiple other Players and a GM in a story. Player A's story has been introduced into the adventure with full consent of all involved. Now Player A wants to leave for, who cares why, and needs his characters wiped from the internet? That screams of misunderstanding how the internet works before you even get involved with the RPG aspect of it.

I fully appreciate that there is some sense of entitlement to the "character he created" but the GM had to approve this, and the other characters accepted it as well. So asking the immersion to be destroyed and changed and the whole universe to bend to your will due to a decision you are making to leave that universe? How can someone read that and think that is reasonable?

When you play MMOs or video games on consoles or cellphones do you demand your character is deleted from those universes as well? Do you tell the credit bureaus to delete old accounts from your credit report just because you move on?

I understand this has been solved by the GM destroying the universes calm to bow down to the will of this person, it just amazes me this is a thing that has ever been asked for.

Also late to the party - and since it looks like the matter been resolved, mostly this is for general benefit.

Strictly speaking, according to copyright law, art is copyrighted to the character the moment of creation (IE, when a photographer trips the shutter, they get ownership of the work). I'm not sure how it would work with a collaborative story, but any write-up, backstory, fluff and history would be the player's original work and they would be in their perfectly in their right to go "No, you can't use this".

I wonder how this would work after the game begins. The GM devises a "Sneak to the planet, steal a MacGuffin, rescue a princess, fight your way out story" - his copyright on that work - but the players going off book and the story going in its own directions, I wonder who gets ownership of that.

Mind you, this is mostly a thought exercise - lawsuits and legal fights (probably) won't happen around the gaming table. But I wonder how that would go down if challenged.

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As a GM here,

Your PC's are my property. Period.

You introduce a PC to a game, I write story around him/her, develop plot.

I'm not going to all of sudden delete the last three months worth of work because some one got a hair and wants to Scooby-doo out of the adventure.

This breaks the story, the immersion and the plot as developed. Sorry, leaving player is SOL and has no rights to their PC in my games.

When the opportunity presents itself logiclaly within the adventure then the PC will be sidelined. Not in the middle of a Fight tho.

Its not mean, its keeping the adventure whole for the remaining players, who cares why the departing player left, they left!

Also late to the party - and since it looks like the matter been resolved, mostly this is for general benefit.

Strictly speaking, according to copyright law, art is copyrighted to the character the moment of creation (IE, when a photographer trips the shutter, they get ownership of the work). I'm not sure how it would work with a collaborative story,

Absent of asserting copyright stake in it, they are actually a "contributor" to the GM's story and thus the GM would be the Copyright holder. The Player agreed to allow their character into that universe and thus it because part of that work. That means it would be hurting the rights of the GM and other Players, which would all have grievances against the person being removed from their collaborative effort.

So does this one person's Rights trump the rights of all the others involved and their rights?

At the point you start getting into Rights and copyright, and legal and all that BS you need to calm down and realize one glaring thing. It is a game.... a fun game, but a game...

I fully appreciate that there was an unhealthy attachment to a character in that game, but legal/"rights"/ and all this other junk is ruining the fun for everyone. You know what rule number 1 of gaming is? have fun. Rule number 2? allow others to have fun.

Also the legal system is too stupid to be involved with this sort of dispute and with zero money involved it is a moot point. Taken to court it wouldn't be X's Rights versus Y's rights, it would be thrown out as frivolous.

To quote Sean Connery...."here endeth the lesson".

I doubt a character made by a player in the Star Wars universe is going to pass the muster for legal standing next to the 100 foot tall robotic mouse that would show up to any actual suit......

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I doubt a character made by a player in the Star Wars universe is going to pass the muster for legal standing next to the 100 foot tall robotic mouse that would show up to any actual suit......

Why would Disney care about a GM not throwing their whole story away for a Player that wants to ruin that story? That is beyond confusing how they would even care, they are a company removed from the issue, at minimum, and it isn't a legal thing that involves their copyright. They would have zero say in any court case related to this.

I'm not saying they would or wouldn't but in regards to rights in an actual battle of legality over a character in the Star Wars universe the GM has no legal standing. Any artist, even a player making a PC automatically has rights over their original artwork as long as they don't seek to duplicate or copy it. A GM to claim ownership over something they would have to demonstrate legal standing, in this case, they didn't make the PC, they are not the owner of the IP, they have no standing. They also wouldn't be able to prove any financial injury, which at the end of the day is what copyright laws are meant to protect holders from.

In regards to what Disney would or wouldn't do, back in the day Lucas sued ABC/MCA/Universal over the rights to displaying blaster bolts on screen in Battlestar Galactica. There was a negotiation and it was settled the hand weapons wouldn't but the ships could. Lucas filed suit against Ronald Reagan for saying Star Wars in his SOTU address back in the 80s. So actual holders of copyrights will go to pretty considerable lengths to defend their IP when you are talking big bucks.