I apologize if this was answered somewhere; I tried searching, but didn't come across it.

In most of the quests I can think of in the base game and other expansions, when you have NPCs (especially ones that can be attacked), they generally say they can/cannot be affected by conditions and/or that they automatically pass/fail attribute tests.

However, I've noticed some of the quests don't. One, for instance, is the Shadow of Nerekhall quest "The True Enemy", where the guards are treated like hero figures, and can attack and be attacked. However, for the guards, there is no clarification (that I saw) as to how conditions affect them.

Stun, Immobilize, and other test-less conditions are easy. Even Weakened, which requires a "rest" action to undo, isn't too hard to interpret - they just can't get rid of it. However, what about tests like Poisoned or Diseased, which require an attribute test. Do they automatically pass? Fail? What about other tests (like if a monster ability requires a test on the target or something).

For our game, we just assumed they automatically failed, and it didn't seem to be TOO bad, but if I recall, reading through the quest guide, there were a few quests where the NPC's relationship to conditions/attribute tests is "unknown".

Maybe there's a catch-all rule covering that somewhere that I overlooked, though.

Same as monsters i believe - if a figure is called to take an attribute test and does not have an attribute it immediately fails the test.

Dont have my rule book to hand so it wil need verifying but im almost certain that that is the ruling unless the quest gives an overriding rule.

That would make sense if it said the NPCs were treated as monsters, but when it says they are treated as heroes, I don't know if you can use that same rule to apply here. But if there is a rule that I've missed that gives that explanation for NPCs, that would be very helpful.

By default, all figures are susceptible to conditions. Condition immunity/ auto passing tests is a special case which is provided by individual quests.

Any figure which does not have listed attributes (and which has not been granted auto-passes) will auto-fail a test. Please note that this is different than having a value = 0. The value does not exist, it is neither greater nor less than any number. (Prey on the Weak does not affect the reanimate.)

That's what we assumed, but when I was going through the rules, I don't see anything that directly supports that. I'm probably just looking in the wrong place, but I'm not seeing it

If that's the case, though, why do some quests specifically say that NPCs can be affected by conditions and/or fail tests automatically, if that's the default.

Sorry to be obtuse, but while my gut tells me that is so, I haven't been able to find anything to definitively say so in the rules or FAQ. What I need is a rules reference to put my mind at ease

That's what we assumed, but when I was going through the rules, I don't see anything that directly supports that. I'm probably just looking in the wrong place, but I'm not seeing it

If that's the case, though, why do some quests specifically say that NPCs can be affected by conditions and/or fail tests automatically, if that's the default.

Sorry to be obtuse, but while my gut tells me that is so, I haven't been able to find anything to definitively say so in the rules or FAQ. What I need is a rules reference to put my mind at ease

What I have found so far:

pg 15, "Attribute Tests": Lieutenants have attributes and make attribute tests, just like heroes. However, minion and master monsters do not have attributes. If a minion or master monster is required to make an attribute test, it automatically fails the test.

pg 18, "Familiars Treated as Figures": Similar to monsters, if they are required to

If that's the case, though, why do some quests specifically say that NPCs can be affected by conditions and/or fail tests automatically, if that's the default.

The thing that you and your group really need to come to grips with is the fact that FFG has been notorious in the past when it comes to using consistent terms within their rules. Further, there are numerous examples where quest rules and/or card text explicitly state something, where it is not explicitly stated in other similar/exact situations. This often leads to confusion, especially for people new to the game.

And yes, this very lack of consistency can be very frustrating. At least, FFG is learning from past mistakes. All you need to do is look at Star Wars Imperial Assault, and note that FFG provided several rules documents including a Rules Reference Guide which does an admirable job of defining most (if not all) key terms utilized in the rest of their guides.

I should point out that our very own Zaltyre has created a similar document which he has called a Glossary of Terms for Descent 2e. It is a work in process, but you get the general idea.

Haha, and so Zaltyre becomes common property by descent Forum law.

I should point out that our very own Zaltyre has created a similar document which he has called a Glossary of Terms for Descent 2e. It is a work in process, but you get the general idea.

Where can we find this?

I should point out that our very own Zaltyre has created a similar document which he has called a Glossary of Terms for Descent 2e. It is a work in process, but you get the general idea.

Where can we find this?

Discussion thread with link. I'm planning an update to this document soon to add some things and correct a few errors. Notably, once a large monster expands and places its figure, it can be considered to be performing the action from any of its expanded spaces. That is, you don't need to measure range and line of sight from the shrunken space to DO the action, just to DECLARE the action. For example, an elemental interrupting a move action to do "Fire" would be able to attack all figures adjacent to his full base, so long as at least one figure was adjacent to the space he interrupted such that he could declare the "Fire" action.

Where&when will your update be released?

I think we need to start a petition to ban Zaltyre from reading and posting on the forums

until said document is updated and available! J/K.

If that's the case, though, why do some quests specifically say that NPCs can be affected by conditions and/or fail tests automatically, if that's the default.

The thing that you and your group really need to come to grips with is the fact that FFG has been notorious in the past when it comes to using consistent terms within their rules.

Oh, I know the history, I've been playing FFG games since 2005 And things are definitely much better now. (Although I know enough about FFG's games that making assumptions about implied rules doesn't always pan out the way I'd expect, hence my question )

I don't remember having any quests with this question until Nerekhall, so it's possible there was a new body in charge of that project or something

I don't remember having any quests with this question until Nerekhall, so it's possible there was a new body in charge of that project or something

The most notorious quest guide for redundant statement of rules is The Shadow Rune. Additionally, of the Creative Content Developers, I've known Nathan to be more mindful of R.A.W., and have appreciated his generally careful wording of abilities/ quest rules to that effect; this includes his resolution of rules questions. With a very few exceptions, I agree with every ruling he's made.

I'm not saying I disagree with him, just that I'm not necessarily sold on equating the rulings for familiars to NPCs as a blanket statement based on the FAQ alone.

If I get a response back from FFG saying that NPCs use the same general rules as familiars unless noted otherwise, that will be good enough for me.

I personally prefer redundant rules over "implied" omissions, especially in cases where a rule is often overridden (as is the case with NPCs - they vary greatly between quests, and sometimes even have different rules between encounters of the SAME quest, if I recall).

I understand your desire for an official response. The closest thing to that I can find is in the first page of the FFG Sez wiki on BGG, which as you probably know is compiled from previous responses (I added the bolding):