I want to run a Soontir / Mini-Swarm list, but I keep going back and forth on the specifics.

I've settled on these two so far, but I'm open to more suggestions (as well as thoughts on which of my two lists you think is stronger). Keep in mind that I'd prefer the list to be at 98 points (or 99 max) for the initiative bid.

List #1

35 Soontir (27)

- PTL (3)

- Autothrusters (2)

- Hull upgrade (3)

- Royal (0)

39 3x Obsidian

24 2x Academy

Total 98

The idea here is to use the 2 APs as blockers, the 3 Obsidians as trailers (the PS 3 helping with Predator and enabling shots before Rebel swarms), and of course Soontir as the flanker.

Pros: No need to fly in formation; can truly "swarm"

Cons: No Howl re-rolls will hurt potential damage output

So...

List #2

32 Soontir (27)

- PTL (3)

- Autothrusters (2)

18 Howlrunner

48 4x Academy

Total 98

Here, we have a more standard Howl mini-swarm with Soontir as the flanker.

Pros: Howl re-rolls help with damage
Cons: Flying in formation makes it easier for opponents to arc-dodge the swarm. Academy Pilots are suseptible to predator and shoot after Rebel swarms. Soontir does not benefit from an extra upgrade.

Thoughts? (My local meta, by the way, is pretty varied -- never quite sure what will show up...)

why not give Fel a targeting computer in list 2?

why not give Fel a targeting computer in list 2?

Initiative bid protection against other PS9 pilots is more important than TL.

Generally, I prefer the first one. Stronger Fel, and the ability to scatter and become blockers is highly valuable. Howl generally dies shortly after the first joust anyway.

A friend of mine flies the first list, but with 5 Academies and Stealth Device over Hull Upgrade. It has some advantages: you have a 5-point initiative bid (4 if you go for Shield Upgrade over Hull), so there's no way you're losing it unless you run into Double Phantom; and your TIEs can move in any order you want, minimising the chances of them getting in each other's way and maximising your chances to block. More of your ships are vulnerable to Predator and shoot dead-last, of course, but it might be worth the trade-off. If your opponent spends time going after the TIEs then he's basically allowing Soontir to dominate the end game, after all.

Thanks for the advice. Based on the feedback, I think I'm going to leave out Howlrunner -- I like freedom of flying the TIEs out of formation if need be. I also think I'm going to give up on "mixing" different pilot skills with the TIEs.

So, I've settled on either 5 APs with a fully loaded Soontir (96), or 5 Obsidians with a PTL, Autothruster Soontir (97). Both lists still give me a strong initiative bid.

Again, thanks for your thoughts!

I would also have considered the other named TIEs, or maybe a BSP with Outmaneuver / Predator.

^ Aye - Backstabber alone is crazy good value for those 4 points, over the standard Academy Pilot.

full Fel

4X academy

BSP+intimidation comes in at 99

Personally, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to have Howlrunner. Swarms flown in formation are still as strong as ever. And when teamed up with Soontir, you don't care if all your TIEs end up dead. As long as there are only 1 or 2 enemy ships left, Soontir can ace the end game. In this sort of list, Soontir doesn't even need much, Push the Limit of course, but at most autothrusters or a targeting computer is all that he requires.

Over the last month I've experimented with a bunch of Fel miniswarm configurations. Fel+RGT+SD+Autothrusters, 5x Obsidians has by far worked the best for me.

Some thoughts/observations:

1. With Fel so well protected many opponents don't even bother firing on him. I always go for stealth device, so I'll be rolling 4 or 5 greens most of the time. Backed up with a focus, AT, and hopefully an evade you're pretty well defended.

2. I've played with both APs and Obsidians, and I decided I liked 5x Obsidians better so I can get first shot at PS2 B-wings (and to a lesser extent Zs). The main thing you would want to block are high powered and/or AGI 3 ships (esp. IG-88), almost all of which will be >PS3 anyway.

3. Howlrunner has not been great for me lately. Staying in formation makes you predictable and seriously compromises your ability to block. This is a long debate, but my latest trials have always been better when I drop Howlrunner and add an extra TIE. And this is coming from a long time Howlie fan.

4. With any of these squads you will face unique challenges winning timed tournament matches. If you play Fel cautiously, as you should, he will take a while to get his work done. Meanwhile you will be facing a steady attrition in points as your TIEs progressively get taken out. You will be at a serious MoV disadvantage against large ships you can't take out quickly enough. These Fel miniswarm squads would perform much better with 75 min rounds vs. 60 min rounds.

This all being said, I am going to swap out the miniswarm for a Decimator to see how that goes for a few weeks. I think it might be much better in timed events, even though I think flying a bunch of TIEs is really fun!

Played a Fel Swarm in a small local tournament last night and had an absolute blast! I think I may have found 'my' list (I have a habit of not flying lists more than once or twice - It took me three days of constantly changing my mind to settle on this list). I flew Soontir with PtL, Royal Guard, Autothrusters and Targeting Computer, a naked Howlrunner and four Academies. What would I change? Howlrunner's re-roll ability came into play about twice a game. I too like to fly off in all directions when flying TIE's using them as blockers and general nuisances where possible so I'm going to drop her. Fel used the Targeting Computer once in three games I think so that is to go also to be replaced by Stealth Device. Though I faced Predator in one game, even against the Academies I don't really feel it had that much of an adverse impact so I'm not too worried about using PS1 pilots as they are great blockers. What I did find was an issue was the amount of fire power five TIE's can put out, especially when you start to lose one of two. As Howlrunner never seems to perform as well as expected I need to find another way to increase fire power a little. I like WonderWAAAGH's suggestion of using either Black Squadron Pilots with a fire power increasing EPT or another named TIE. So...

Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Autothrusters + Stealth Device (35)

Back Stabber (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total points = 99

Backstabber as well as potentially upping the number of dice you're rolling, also presents a different kind of target for your opponent to take into consideration. Set up wise I would probably go with Backstabber on one side of the board, Soontir on the other and the Academies roughly in the middle, off set to one side towards Soontir. Fly Backstabber up the board edge on his own, use the TIE's as a screen to move Soontir into a good opening position... If you're opponent allows you to that is!

This all being said, I am going to swap out the miniswarm for a Decimator to see how that goes for a few weeks. I think it might be much better in timed events, even though I think flying a bunch of TIEs is really fun!

Another friend of mine plays such a squad, and it is highly effective. It's similar to the Phantom + Decimator combo, in that you have two ships who excel against whatever the other is weak to, except that Soontir doesn't roll over and die the moment you lose initiative or run into a PS10 opponent.

Or face a stress-based control list/upgrade, or meet prox mines/Vader+Gunner, face Torkil, or Pablo, or, or, or.