Black Squadron + Ruthlessness (x4)

Royal Guard + Ruthlessness + Hull Upgrade + Shield Upgrade

or

Black Squadron + Ruthlessness + Hull Upgrade (x5)

or

Black Squadron + Ruthlessness (x3)

Howlrunner + Ruthlessness + Shield Upgrade

Mauler Mithel + Ruthlessness + Shield Upgrade

(With this one I wasn't sure about Mauler because his pilot ability only works at range 1, so he was iffy. what I am thinking is by the time he needs to break formation and his ability is needed to clean up, there wont be to many TIEs left to shoot at what he is shooting at) so I am thinking less about going with this 3rd list.

Ok, first, with all of that Ruthlessness out there you run the risk of damaging you're own ships since you are running so many of them. Ruthlessness feel more like an anti-swarm card to me then anything else and really should be run on builds of three ships or less, to minimize the possibilities that you might hurt your own squad.

As soon as it is up, our most recent episode discusses this very card. But bottom line, I would not run one Ruthlessness in a swarm build, let alone many of them. More often then not, you'll end up doing more damage to yourself then your opponent.

That being said, the good old classic TIE Swarm is still alive and well in the meta:

Howlrunner
Backstabber
Obsidian Sq. Pilot (X5)

Good luck, try out both builds and see what you think.

seems like you have a better chance of harming yourself than the 2-ship builds that are all the rage

the closest I've been able to get to the "new swarm" is a seven tie swarm spent on compensating for the excessive agility of the phantom back i the dark days of wave 5

Howlie

Mauler (V.I)

Stabber

4 academies

it's just a very simple premise of as many dice thrown as accurately as possible to overcome both the idiocy of turrets and the fickleness of green dice

I like Night Beast or Dark Curse better as a second named Tie pilot. Free focus for Night Beast or negating focus tokens and the ability to reroll for Dark Curse makes him way more survivable.

The reason Ruthlessness doesn't see tournament play is because you want to be pushing all your damage through onto one ship so that it stops shooting at you asap. You don't want to be spreading damage all around your opponent's list, that doesn't stop ships from shooting you.

Also an upgrade that requires your attack to hit isn't great on a 2-dice attack ship.

I like the calculating swarm:

Howl + PTL + SU or just 2 more Academies

BSP + Calculation X 5

Of course you do have to buy a bunch of SVs to run it in a tournament. No big ship (besides IGs) wants to see this swarm across the table.

A friend of mine tried running a similar build at a store championship and it did not fare well at all. He is a good player before anyone asks, he did win a s store championship this year just not with that list

Ruthlessness should be renamed to Toothlessness, imho.

From personal playtesting it either, doesn't make its points back, or you end up damaging yourself too much.

YMMV.

Ruthlessness has a home in the two ship build. It helps fight against the biggest problem a two ship build faces... 4 to 7 ships all firing at it!

This is one of those cards that is (pun intended) ruthless in the right hands. There are many crew or system upgrades that can enhance this ability.

Also, "spread the damage around" in this case isn't a bad thing. You are still concentrating efforts on a single target, but as a bonus doing damage to future targets at the same time.

ok,

how do you think Ruthlessness would work in this list?

I am going to try it out this week

Darth Vader + Ruthlessness + Cluster missile

Major Rhymer + Ruthlessness + Cluster Missile + Munitions failsafe

Captain Jonus + Ruthlessness + Cluster missile + Munitions failsafe

100 points

this is what I figure will happen:

swarms: will need to stay out of formation or will lose 3-5 ships during an alpha strike that, depending on the swarm, wont even get shots off.

base ships: it will absolutely wreck any base ship or cripple it, and if he has any support near by? they are screwed to

I think this one will be pretty good all around, there were a lot of warthogs in the last tournament I went to, and that is also what won it. a 4 warthog build, with its low PS and agility,i feel confident if you spread out the target locks right you can kill 2 of the 4 in the first round of combat. if he doesn't group up then the warthogs can be picked off 1 at a time.

I will know in a few days if im right.

ok, back on topic,

what about this:

Black Squadron + Predator + Hull Upgrade (x5)

ok, back on topic,

what about this:

Black Squadron + Predator + Hull Upgrade (x5)

5 Hull Upgrades is 15pts. You could add a 6th Black Squadron + Calculation for that.

Problem is Black squadron with predator is still 2 dice with a reroll.

As I found with the X1s, AC guaranteeing 2 hits just isn't enough for the very high agi Aggressors, and the return fire kills the basic TIE just too quickly. Blocking them helps, but then you need numbers.

In this the Interceptor has the edge over the eyeball.

ok,

how do you think Ruthlessness would work in this list?

I am going to try it out this week

Darth Vader + Ruthlessness + Cluster missile

Because of Vader's pilot ability, I like the idea of Ruthlessness on him. It fits his character too. I'd want to put this EPT on a hypermobile Vader:

Vader+Title+ATC+Ruthlessness+EU

Fel+PTL+AutoThrusters

Jax+PTL+AutoThrusters

Ruthlessness isn't bad, but for that one more point you get predator, which stacks nicely with vader not being easily able to spend his TL...

Ruthlessness isn't bad, but for that one more point you get predator, which stacks nicely with vader not being easily able to spend his TL...

worse

they cost the same 3 points

What about an outmanouver swarm to help deal with the high agility targets? 5x Black Squadron with outmanouver and hull upgrade?

Problem is Black squadron with predator is still 2 dice with a reroll.

As I found with the X1s, AC guaranteeing 2 hits just isn't enough for the very high agi Aggressors, and the return fire kills the basic TIE just too quickly. Blocking them helps, but then you need numbers.

In this the Interceptor has the edge over the eyeball.

Enough 2 red dice + reroll vs 3 green dice and the target _will_ take damage. Those 5 Hull Upgrades give the BSP swarm nearly as many HP (20) as a 7 tie Swarm (21), though obviously the durability of swarm is greatly enhanced by having the extra 2 bodies.

However! Because each BSP gets the effect of Howlrunner without needing to be in formation, they will have a smaller chance at taking damage from Ruthlessness.

Something I've noticed: the effectiveness of Lone Wolf goes up as list size goes down. It therefore seems that Ruthlessness might be a good compliment to a 2 ship list with Lone Wolf.

It's too bad that you can't choose an EPT after seeing your opponent's list. In a 2 v 2 list, Ruthlessness would be almost wasted.

the point of the vader with 2 bombers is pretty much this:

no matter what you face, swarm or base ship, what you don't kill in the alpha strike will be easier to take down after it.if you wipe out 25-50% of a swarm, or destroy 1 ship from a 2 ship build, then you have the enemy hard pressed to make up points and try not to die by leaving a flank open to your ships.

running this Thursday I will discover if there is any truth to my logic.

but thanks for your input guys.

1.) Ruthlessness is one of those upgrades that you pay points for just to break even. See: Dead man's switch, most ordnance, etc. At least on paper, I've never tried it. By the time you pay extra to upgrade to Black Squadron and the cost of the actual upgrade itself that is probably going to end up damaging your own ships as much as your enemy's, meh.

2.) I wouldn't consider 5 ships or less a swarm. 6 is the threshold for a list to be considered a swarm.

3.) Against a 2 ship list with 5 TIE Fighters, your Ruthlessness will do nothing at best. You're also only flying 5 ships so what's going to happen is that everytime your typical 15 actions/dice modifications a turn 2 ship build fires at your build you're going to lose a TIE. PS 4 is meaningless against 2 ships builds except for getting above double Predator, so you're flying a 52 point build pretty much should you face one.

Also, "spread the damage around" in this case isn't a bad thing. You are still concentrating efforts on a single target, but as a bonus doing damage to future targets at the same time.

It's not a free upgrade, you still spent 3 points and an EPT slot that could have been used to push more damage through onto the ship that you're shooting at instead of the ships around it. So the extra damage you could have gotten from a different upgrade (or a whole 'nother ship) is being diverted away from your target and onto surrounding ships.

As fun as it is, Ruthlessness just isn't a good card. There are many factors that play into this:

1) Your opponent may not have enough ships for this to matter. Against a fat turret or any 3-4 ship list this card can be rendered useless as long as your opponent doesn't bunch up.

2) As above, you have no control when this will be effective. You can't force your opponent to get into position where this will even have an enemy target.

3) It has a drawback. Your ships also take the splash damage if there are no enemies close enough. Its very likely that you get within range one of an enemy ship. But what happens when you're the only ship in range one? It turns a good attack into a bad one (that you paid points for).

4) You would have to do about 2 points or more extra damage with this card for it to be worth its points, as well as not hitting your own ships. For an EPT you could easily take PTL or Predator and it will be far more likely to squeeze in that extra damage with no drawbacks and be far less reliant on your opponent walking into it.

5) It requires you to hit, but does not help you do so. Meaning you need to put this on something that can reliably hit on its own. This limits options and means you have to devote more resources to making this work (again if your opponent plays into it).

I think the card is fun as well as something cool and different. Just don't expect it to be an all-star. Even when it "does well" it will still not be amazing. If you like "free damage" you can almost always get a damage or two out of Seismic Charges. But even then its rarely worth 2 points on an upgrade slot that is not nearly as important as the EPT.

That said the upside is interesting. It is more of a mental thing than actual threat. You could make your opponent choose poor positioning trying to avoid the extra damage. This alone is worth considering. However once your opponent realizes the worst case scenario is a single damage on ship they will likely just ignore it.

Reading the title, I can say that OP's ideas are certainly one of those two things.

Forcing your opponent to spread out due to Ruthlessness is a benefit all by itself, though.

I'm not sure it's great on TIE fighters, though. I wouldn't want to spend points on an "after an attack that hits" ability for a 2-attack fighter, even if you have got a reroll from Howlrunner.

I've seen it used to nasty effect, but on something bigger. A defender with Vessery, Ruthlessness and two bomber escorts worked very well.

ok,

how do you think Ruthlessness would work in this list?

I am going to try it out this week

Darth Vader + Ruthlessness + Cluster missile

Major Rhymer + Ruthlessness + Cluster Missile + Munitions failsafe

Captain Jonus + Ruthlessness + Cluster missile + Munitions failsafe

Potentially very well.

Observations:

Munitions failsafes are a waste on Rhymer (he really shouldn't be missing with two rerollable attacks in a row!). Keeping it on Jonus is reasonable since he doesn't have any tokens and can't use his own reroll boost.

Since you want to all roll into range at once, Rhymer's ability is not really useful; you're just using him as an ordnance caddy with an elite pilot talent. Maarek Stele does the same for a point more, and is marginally more useful once his missile racks are empty due to more agility, a better dial and a special ability that still works with normal guns.

Also, two Advanceds benefit much more from the TIE/x1 title (if the raider ever surfaces), packing any currently existing systems upgrade for free......