Dam said:

Velhart said:

Gladiator can train every follower. He can also train Mules who helps him in combat

( he gets a +1 strength for every follower)

He only had 3 Followers .

Only 3 followers and still strength 27?

Why have you not go to the Crown of command earlier then?

Part of the problem with the Raft and Boatman (which I've heard more than one person call a Ferryman) is that they are used as if they are a ferry or barge and not a boat or raft. The stuff people transport on those is ridiculous sometimes. If better restrictions were put on them, then adventurers wanting to keep all their stuff hoarded up would have to use the Sentinel's bridge. That part of the game has been broken through over simplification of other access options into the Middle Region; and it should be fixed. The Sentinel should be return to its place in the game or not be there at all.

Can someone please clarify what form of Teleport is being used to jump between regions. The Teleport spell doesn't do that, so I'm a little lost on that point.

And I too want to know the accounting of how the Gladiator achieve Strength 27. I've gone over the possibilities, and beyond even training Followers, I don't see how it is possible. And if it is, then obviously something is wrong.

JCHendee said:

There are 2 rune gates included in the dungeon expansion, that can teleport you to a rune space in the middle region.

The imp is another one, who can bring you to the middle region by rolling a die for it..

JCHendee said:

Have you looked at the Dungeon Enemies? You can easily get +1 Str per Enemy in there. Yes, we use the standard 7 point rule. He challenged the Lord of Darkness with Strength 17 and this was about mid-way in the game. He went into the Dungeon with Orb of Knowledge and Str 8 and spent most of his time in there, just boosting. In the Dungeon, it was pretty soon Battle Hulk (Str 10), nice, trophy, all he needed was a 4 to get +2 Str. When he came out and was more than Crown-ready, no Talisman. So he took a Warlock's Quest, which was the "discard 1 Fate". So he had to trek around the land looking for Fate. Combine that with his Treasure Orb of Prophesy, he was getting his pick of the Adventure cards, so he was getting easy kills left, right and centre. No Fate though. And let's not forget, this Gladiator also finished the game with 16 Craft (20 in psychic combat), he was utterly overpowered. But, because he chose to take the Warlock's Quest, no entry into the Inner Region before he completed it. Had the Ghoul sitting at the Crown rolled bettter, Gladiator would've lost, even with all his crazy stats.

Thanks Dam. I now understand. There are multiple problems contributing to what you mention. Foremost is that the quest in question has never made any sense. It is ridiculous that an adventurer could deliver part of its "fate." It would take some long stretches to rationalize that one, mostly because it is a quest based in game mechanics rather the game itself (its world). Dumb! Needless to say, the Gladiator shouldn't have been hobbled by this lame notion. And I think you know what I'd do with that particular quest card.

As to all the transport modes between the regions... well, I'd have to see the cards themselves but would likely scowl at them. I don't own the Dungeon or the Reaper, though one fellow player does (who lives at a distance). If anyone cares to share, they can, but its not really critical. Likely those gates are random for destination (?) or connected somehow (?).

I've added another quest card for review HERE based a bit more on the original notion raised herein. The first one (now revised) was already put into play once and met with general approval if not raves. Both offer an opportunity for alternative gains and snatching a half-completed quest away form another adventurer for a little more PvP incentive.

JCHendee said:

I think if someone gets up to Str 17 or so without a Talisman but has Orb of Prophesy in the future, they'll just run around spamming tons of Adventure cards, eventually a Talisman will crop up.

JCHendee said:

Early days for Dungeon so far, but Rune Gates are a nice addition, makes for a quick jump to the Middle Region. If I were to rank the River-crossing methods in order of most uses, Tavern (by a huge margin) would be on top. Imp, Magic Portal (Dungeon also adds 2x Spell of that or similar name, which does the same thing), Water Walking/Boatman/Raft (Raft drawn from the Adventure deck, 0.01% built, 0% bought). You can use Lord of the Pit if you want, gets you to the Plain of Peril, drop back down to the Middle.

So in other words, so many ways into the Middle Region with no sacrifices or decisions to make with ones entourage and treasure horde (for the sake of game speed) have made a longstanding aspect of main board completely obselete. How very sad. They should've just axed the Sentinel all together, put up a toll bridge, and required that you land on it by exact roll (or not) to use it for 1G. At least then it would be semi equal to all the other easy ways to get across the River.

If you're buff enough, taking the Sentinel is the surest way to go still. People around here just tend to hang out at the Tavern corner more than the Chapel area (unless they are Good and need healing), especially now with Dungeon there. Village-Chapel edge can make you land in both Forest and Crags, both of which are no-draw spaces and there is also Graveyard as non-draw space. And picking fights with farmers is fun, especially if you're the Swashbuckler and winning a battle gets you an extra turn.

JCHendee said:

Thanks to the members correcting me- I called him the ferryman instead of boatman. Apologies.

As for the Sentinel. I think he is still worthy of being on the board, as he is the option that is always there. Whereas other ways aren't always available/possible. So, with him being the option that is always available, he should be a tougher than the other options imo. The toll bridge is how it was in the 3rd edition, and worked quite well. However, it did make it TOO easy to get to the middle region. However, there was no way to build a raft in the 3rd ed, so they needed to make it easier. I haven't seen anyone take on the Sentinel yet in the few games we have played with the 4th edition, but it is nice to know he is there if we can't get an axe (not enough cash), or can't wait to keep attempting to roll a 6 for the "Boatman" at the Tavern. After all, if there is an easy option to cross the bridge (pay 1g for example), why would you ever want to buy an axe and build a raft?

wastedyuthe said:

I agree..

If the sentinel is replaced by the toll bridge then everyone can go to the middle region easier because you can draw more cards there..

And now that the Sentinel is guarding the bridge, everyone must look for a other way to cross.. ( it's a good balance)

Third edition has the Toll bridge but the middle region is more dangerous than the 4th edition version.

There is also no raft, so it's difficult to reach the middle.

Conclusion: i think that it is good that the sentinel is there instead of the toll bridge..

This is the reason why you should buy a axe or raft. I like it and i hope that more different objects will come into the future.

Velhart said:

So... the only reason the Sentinel is there is to encourage people to look for some other way to get to the Middle Region?

JCHendee said:

Yeah..

And then the Raft and Axe will come into play...

Or do you have something else in mind

JCHendee said:

I think that's the point exactly. Otherwise, why would they have included the raft and boatman? The Sentinel is a quick way to get across, if you have the strength to do so. If not, you have to find a less straight-forward way. Simple.

It's odd hearing that so many of you don't fight the sentinel. In my games, we almost always cross via the bridge. I know it seems easier to get the axe and make a raft, but for some reason, we never do.

As for the raft in the adventure deck, well, it doesn't come up that often and when it does, it's usually discarded because the player isn't ready to cross.

I still maintain that the Sentinel should be one or two Strength points lower (7 or 8) to encourage players to cross earlier and get more out of the middle region.

For me, the biggest problem with the outer regions is that its kind of boring. I wish there were more variation between the spaces. In our games, we tend to lose interest in all the back and forth with the same "draw 1 card" rules.

Lars Gnomish said:

Around here, if someone draws an Axe from the Adventure deck (it is very rarely bought), they'll keep it around (in case they lose the other Weapons), but Rafts don't get built.

Lars Gnomish said:

I pretty much always cross, even if at starting stats, unless there is something lucrative face up on the Outer Region. If things get too hot, can always drop back down, but you got access to the Temple and if you get solid draws at Oasis/Hidden Valley, can make huge gains (not as much as Dungeon, that place is munchkin heaven). Best thing do draw is the Places that give Str/Craft (and maybe Fate). Everyone still on the Outer Region, the Sentinel is blocking them nicely, else they need luck to join you.

Lars Gnomish said:

See, that's when you start head-hunting the other players .

I don't find the outer region boring as such- especially when you end up with lots of Place cards or objects left on the spaces. That's the beauty of this game- it is different every time you play. All those boring "Pick a card" spaces you see at the beginning of the game can soon be taken up with enemies that are too tough for everyone, weapons that are only for those with certain alignment, fountains of wisdom etc etc etc.

Going back to the Sentinel, how come we haven't had any quests that defeat him? The creators are perhaps assuming that everyone has already levelled up enough strength and defeated him before they reached the Warlocks Cave, but as we have discussed, not everyone chooses to go that way.

wastedyuthe said:

You can also cast evade spells to evade the sentinel or maybe other spells etc

This is also a tactic to get to the middle region..

Velhart said:

Yes there is that too. It's a pity we couldn't chop his arms and legs off like in Monty Python's Holy Grail though- "It's just a flesh wound!"

Velhart said:

Yes and no... I think there's plenty of ways (too many) for getting around the Sentinel already and some are too easy and have gapping loopholes in them. So I'm not sure I'd want to add any more. I think rafts (not barges) are horribly abused for what they really are, and the same with the boatman (not ferry or ship, by the way). I think a few of the old limits (and some additional ones) on what can be taken where and how would make the game more challenging and less boring at times. I know it does for my group.

A new quest card is now available for review HERE.

JCHendee said:

Is it just my computer or is this link not working? I tried to do a link myself and had the same thing too.

wastedyuthe said:

It's not your computer. The link does also not work by me.

But my links always work

You need to add the full link to the link option space

Works for me, though I'm annoyed I now can't say I've avoided the HB section .

Doesn't work for me in IE8, but this one should.

talismanisland said:

Yep- works fine, thanks.