"Ooh, I have to give up a craft counter!!! Oh my, how am I going to cope? What a quest that will be!" NOT!

Even with the Reaper expansion, the Warlocks quests are SO underused in my opinion. To make them interesting, why didn't we have quest cards such as this:

"Make your way over to the Ruins, where you will not encounter adventure cards, but automatically fight a goblin hoard (total strength 7) who are holding a Princess captive. If you win, place a life counter on this card to show you have the Princess, then make your way to the Castle to return her to it."

If the Talisman cards are removed from the Adventure deck, forcing players to take on quests such as these, it would make it far more interesting and (optionally) longer.

This game is great and I love it, but saying "give up a spell/strength/craft" is not what defines a quest in my opinion.

Opinions? Can anyone think of any quests they would like to see in the game?

Admittedly some quests might seem to be easy, but if you do not happen to have the required "tribute" then you do indeed have to undertake a quest of sorts.

...and don't forget that the Frostmarch gives a number of new quests which you might find a little more challenging!

Depends on how quickly people get to Crown-level stats (around here that means 9 in the main stat you'll use in the Inner Region). Before Reaper, in 15+ years, I could use 1 hand to count the times people took a Quest and even then I might use at most 1 finger. Reaper doubles the Adventure deck in size, making Talismans less common (we've yet to exhaust the Adventure deck in 40+ games; best I think is 19 cards left). Since Reaper, people have been taking Quests a lot more, two hands isn't enough to count the number anymore. We do random Quests. I added the Dungeon today and in the first game with it, Amazon took a Warlock's Quest for a Talisman because she was geared up to go the Inner Region, but there had been no Talisman in the game at all.

OT: Of course, Swashbuckler won the game with great luck draw(s), first he got Talisman. Next turn he went to Hidden Valley, got Monster, Demigod, Colossus. He beat the monster, earning him an extra turn, Demigod gave him a Spell of his choice (Transference, natch) and Colossus was just a bonus. On the extra turn, he passed the Portal of Power and even though the Amazon dropped him from 2 Life to 1 with a successful Command Spell, Transference saw them swap places and 2 turns later, Swashbuckler had won.

I agree with Wastedyuthe, that the quests are not real quests what you want to be..

It would be nice if there is a real quest deck of some sorts, that you must save a princess or defeat a special enemy to receive a special object or something that you can't draw from the normal adventure deck..

This keeps the player busy, and then he will try to reach that location instead of only focusing on the main game..

Well, i think i can expect the same sort warlock cards in frostmarch expansion as we have already from the reaper expansion..

It would be amazing if they are real quests..

But we get a warlock ending card in frostmarch expansion, and it looks like that you must complete 4 warlock cards to complete the game??

But i don't want to complain too much because The Warlock cards are better than roling a die on the board to receive a quest..

Maybe we want to much..

FFG does a good job and i am happy with it..

Sometimes, the core game quests are hard enough!

So far, out of three games, there were three quests undertaken, yet none were completed!

Agreed Velhart. The cards are indeed much better than rolling the dice. It's a shame they didn't do that in the first place, as we have rules on that space now that don't apply.

Don't get me wrong, I also agree that FFG have done a superb job (bar confusion with some rules such as the assassin ), and am extremely happy with it. But, there is always room for improvement, and the quest cards were most certainly under-developed. Perhaps with more developed quests, they could have even added more rules- complete 3 quests and the warlock transports you to the CoC! Imagine that!

Can anyone think of quests they would like to see, out of interest?

wastedyuthe said:

Then there are too many ways to reach the Crown of Command.

It is already possible to land on the crown if you defeat the Lord of Darkness in the Dungeon with a high strength or craft

And it's possible that other regions will also use that option..

Velhart said:

Hmm, if I take the Warlock's Quest and have Princess, I hope I drew the discard 1 Follower so I can give her to the Warlock for experiments/slavehood/whatever . Very few better feelings than knowing you doomed the Princess to a life of hell, especially if you're a Knight. Guides and Prince are #1 choices for Vampire's Tower.

Dam said:

Hehe! You really need to see a psychiatrist you evil sod

Dam said:

hahaha

Not bad, not bad

But then i miss the gold..

But if i have no other... so be it ..

Dam said:

Too bad we can't give her to the lord of darkness then.....

Old Master said:

Maybe he can change the princess to evil

Then he has a wife too

The evil princess will command the goblins in the dungeon haha

Speaking of Warlock's Quests, the Gladiator almost lost the game by taking one today. He got the "discard 1 Fate", and had none. And as regular posters know, I use the BI board with only the Village errata, so no Fate gains at Graveyard or Temple. To boot, Philosopher cast Destruction on the Wheel of Fate.

Of course, that might have all been moot, if the Gladiator had managed to beat the Lord of Darkness by 8+. Around mid-game, he took on the LoD with effective Strength 17 in battle, having spent most of the game in the Dungeon. Eventually, he used the Orb of Prophesy enough to draw Enchanter and get the Fate he needed. Sadly, only beat the LoD by one. In the end though, Ghoul's poor Command Spell rolls cost him dearly, even with the Gladiator rolling 18 at the Mines !!! Once the Gladiator hit the Crown, it was all over. Ghoul had normal Crown stats, Strength 8 (in battle), Craft 9, but the Gladiator came in at Strength 27 (in battle), Craft 20 (in psychic combat, 16 normal)!!! At one point the Gladiator traded in 22 points of Craft (6+6+5+5)! Game took 90 mins.

Dam... of course you know the problem for the Gladiator was that you were playing 4ER quests with an incompletely modified 4E board, right?

I agree with Velhart that the quests aren't quest, just "tasks." And it would be nice to see some true quests as an accesory to the game with some kind of reward for completing the true quest that has nothing to do with end game. Maybe as even a new way to draw a Treasure card, and thereby a reason for the Treasure deck to GROW in future expansions.

Then again, most players are focused purely on two things now with the alterations of Talisman over the years: (1) Get to the endgame, and (2) kill everybody before during or after you do so. Quests as a type of Adventure cards (?) would probably be ignored.

We have tried a minor change where the Warlock quests were concerned.

1. You cannot exchange anything you already have and must "quest" to gather up such sacrifices specifically for the Warlock.
2. [OPTIONAL] You do not teleport back the Warlock but must travel back there on your own.

We also tried this with removing all Talisman's from the Adventure deck. It's not going to be to most people's taste, as it does lengthen the game, but we had a couple of fun ale and chips sessions playing into the late night... especially when one adventurer gain something for its quest that someone else could take for its own quest.

JCHendee said:

He could've saved his Fate. People know the deal with Fate in our games and also know that random Warlock's Quest draw can give you that Quest. So he knew the risks. It was funny though, seeing him trying to get the Reaper to land on him, so he could roll and hope for a 6, thus getting Fate . Wheel of Fate was also on the board for a long time before he even went for the Quest, could've visited that. And Philosopher had Fate Stealer, which would've been another option.

Of course, Gladiator in this game had to use his Fate before his game even began, as the Reaper landed on him before he got his turn (he was 3rd in the turn order). Reaper also landed on him before his second turn. But he bounced back, I think he lost 1 Life in the Dungeon in the whole game and that was when he drew 5 and 6 Craft enemies and had only 10 Craft himself. Everything else was draw, take trophy, even if it was Battle Hulk at Str 10.

I'm still undecided how I would mark a pre-game Reaper death in my stats though. Probably wouldn't count it, as that character basically wasn't actually in the game. Anybody in Chapel, Tavern or Graveyard is within 1 move for the Reaper, if you're third in the turn order, there is no space the Reaper can't reach in two moves.

I go add the warlock quest text to this topic, so that people can take a look at it, what for quests there are..

WARLOCK QUESTS:

Deliver(discard) one follower

Deliver(discard) three gold

Kill one enemy

Deliver(discard) five points of strength

Deliver (discard) two gold

Deliver(discard) one magic object

Travel to the Cursed Glade

Deliver(discard) one spell

Take one life from another character

Travel to the City

Deliver(discard) one fate

Deliver (discard) five points of craft trophies

I agree that a lot of them are lame, especially with being able to simply trade what you have and/or to teleport back once you acquired something or completed something. So, either for a warlock's task or your notion of a true quest, why don't we take it a little further. The original notion of the Princess was a sound one to start with; a bit less than a quest but a bit more than what's in the quest deck. Any other notions? Keep in mind that it should be based on the base game if possible and avoid dependancy on one or more other expansions.

The Warlock's Daughter

She's run off with the Witch of the Cursed Glade... again. Travel there and face the witch (Craft 9). Succeed and place 1 Life counter on this card as the Daughter becomes a Follower, then travel back to the Warlock. If the Daughter is lost or killed along the way, you lose a life when landing on the Warlock's Cave for the rest of the game.

ADDITIONAL:

Perhaps in some cases, the Warlock could also pay an alternative reward if a talisman wasn't desired by the adventurer visiting there. It would be a way to gain something else of use while still wandering the board in adventuring to build up for the endgame and encourage additional desire for taking on a Warlock quest. Of course that's completely outside the standard of the quest cards.

Inspired by discussions herein, I threw the Warlock's Daughter into a card graphic for review. You can find it in the Homebrew section HERE .

I am in complete agreement with the OP. And from what we've seen from Frostmarch, I don't think they're even bothering to address the lameness of the Warlock's Quests. If we were to create our own Quests, here's a few ground rules I think we should set:

1. No instant teleporting back to the Warlock's Cave (unless you have the teleport spell or special ability, of course). That's a stupid rule that I never understood. Coping with your movement options is one of the core principles of the game.
2. Most quests should send you back to to the outer region.
3. Any enemies faught should be at least as powerful as the Sentinel, since most players will have fought the Sentinel by this point in the game.

I'd also like to propose a completely different mechanic for quests. Instead of going to the cave and taking an optional quest, what if every character has a pre-assigned quest at the outset of the game, based on their character. Once he has completed his unique quest, the character must then go to the warlock to claim his talisman.

I think this could actually be a good place to introduce more game value for gold. What if each character had to deliver 8 gold to their starting location? You could build a story around this that is specific to each character... the thief has to repay his debt, the troll has a fondness for shiny things. The cleric must pay his tithe, the Dark Cultist must make a sacrifice etc.

You might even introduce a Monopoly-style rule to the game where any player that completes his quest in his starting location gets partial control of the space. Any other players entering the space are forced to sacrifice a life point.

Lars Gnomish said:

That's weird. In our games, Sentinel isn't fought pretty much at all. With the Rune Gates now in the mix (that is, if I remember the right card), there are a lot of things that allow you to get to the Middle Region without dealing with the Sentinel. If you go to the Middle early in the game, you're likely to drop back down eventually. Only in the later part when you start gunning for the Middle and Inner Regions because you're Crown-ready, do people even consider the Bridge option, even then alternatives are usually available and taken. And of course, Crown-ready with a Craft character doesn't mean you can even take on the Sentinel, Str 6 or there abouts is what you want. More is nice, but not necessary. Even people taking the Strength path have done so with Str as low as 7, so Sentinel could be a challenge for them. 3 games this week, I think Sentinel has been fought once. Though "fought" is a bit incorrect, when the Gladiator was Str 27 in battle .

Dam said:

Str 27???!!!

As for the Sentinel, in our few games we have played so far with the 4th ed, not one of use has fought him. We have always built a raft or asked the Ferryman to take us across from the Tavern. I think he is there as a way for people to come back to the outer region easily if they are losing lives in the middle region (you don't have to fight him in that instance), and I think the game was designed to make people find alternate ways of crossing to make it more of a quest, which I am in favour of.

Lars Gnomish said:

Thank you.

I agree with the "no teleport" rule. That is a cheap way to end it I feel. However with the quests as they are atm, I can see why they have made that rule. After all, someone can land on the Warlocks Cave and complete their quest the moment they choose it (leave a follower/strength/what ever) and others may have to go away and do some more adventuring till they find what they are after. Teleporting back will help balance what we have atm. However, if ALL quests were based on having to travel to another square first (as quests should be!!) then the teleport rule should be banned.

"Most quests should send you back to the outer region" Again, agreed. Another space in the middle region is too close, as the middle region doesn't have as many spaces either.

Read above for my comment on the Sentinel. However, the quests ought to be of some challenge, agreed.

Players having a quest at the beginning of the game? That's good if you want it to finish a little quicker as you don't need to land on the Warlocks Cave. However, if you do have your quest at the start of the game, it would be easier to reach the quests destination as you have already said the quests ought to take you back to the outer region, where all characters start the game

I disagree with the character taking over control of his starting space too. If you are the Knight and you want to land on the Chapel to replenish lives, you can't because someone else has taken control and will force you to lose a life at the Chapel instead? Doesn't make sense that the Knight should do that, and if the other person has already completed the quest to take over that space, then they may already be ahead in the game anyway. Let's leave that rule to Monopoly, and let it stay there.

wastedyuthe said:

Gladiator can train every follower. He can also train Mules who helps him in combat

( he gets a +1 strength for every follower)

About the boatman( it's not the ferryman) you must still roll a 6 if you want him to bring you to the other side.

We also don't fight the Sentinel so much. Mostly we are teleported to the middle region or we make a raft to go to the other side..

wastedyuthe said:

To make things certain..

You can't choose when you want to complete a Warlock card.

As soon you have the stuff that you need for completing the warlock card, you are directly teleported to the Warlock Cave.

This van also be very dangerous,( especially if we see a warlock card coming in Frostmarch expansion who says: deliver (discard) two magic objects

Velhart said:

Gladiator can train every follower. He can also train Mules who helps him in combat

( he gets a +1 strength for every follower)

He only had 3 Followers .