I know most items in the core rules come with an encumbrance rating, but what about smaller vehicles like Landspeeders or Swoop Bikes? One of my players mentioned that he'd be interested in getting a landspeeder for when the party travels on planets, but I am worried the cargo hold of their YT-1930 (a YT-1300 mechanically except with 185 capacity instead of the default 165) can't carry something like a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/LAVr_QH-7_Chariot without it being too much. What would be the best way of quantifying the space a Landspeeder takes up?
Encumbrance in Vehicles
They don't give any absolute numbers on what encumbrance means but human and vehicle encumbrance is tracked on the same scale. The book says a large, heavy item such as a "cargo crate" is encumbrance 5 or 6. As the limit for a character is 5 + Brawn a large and strong person could carry more than 5 or 6 so I'm taking cargo crate to be a large box sort of crate. Perhaps around 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.8m in volume. That's the sort of fairly large packing box you might use when moving house so reasonably liftable by a typical adult male.
Using this as my baseline, a YT-1300 could carry about 30 such crates. That's in the configuration that can also carry six passengers. If you re-configured it purely for cargo, you could get in more. Anyway, the YT-1300 is essentially a Space Transit van modified for the sort of long-journeys you get in Space. It could carry a swoop or speederbike by volume and weight. But such a thing would be slightly awkward to get on and off. A little like getting a wardrobe through the door. Doable, but a two-person job or a lot of swearing. Of course if the ship were re-configured for fewer passengers and more cargo, might be easier.
I would say a landspeeder is not an option. For that you probably want something designed for larger cargoes like a Wayfarer.
Guidelines are always going to be a little loose in EotE rules system, but I hope that is of help.
Well I guess could do like mechanics checks to disassemble the landspeeder? And could like write down everything you do as you take it apart, or get a blueprint or some kind of manual to give yourself some upgraded dice or boost dice. Im sure it would fit in, if it was taken apart.
Too bad encumbrance is such a vague word for both size and weight
You might be able to disassemble a speeder bike and a swoop is basically an engine with a seat on it, but a landspeeder has a body. That's the problem. You can take the engine and wheels and seats out of a car, but it's not going to be any easier to pack unless you start cutting it down the middle.
I wouldn't try to compute an answer using encumbrance numbers in this system. Instead, I would just look at a deckplan for the ship, glance at an image of whatever vehicle they want to shove in there, and make a ruling.
For example, look at this YT-1300 deckplan taking note of areas #1,#10, and #15.
The freight loading room (10) might accept a speeder bike at an angle from corner to corner. That would of course get in the way of future freight being loaded. Those doors don't include an elevator. You would need to "fly" the speeder bike up into it. Depending on your interpretation on how high a speeder bike can "jump" this might not be possible at all. If you allow said jumps, I would require an Average pilot roll to land in there with failures, especially Despairs, causing damage or injuries.
You could also argue a speeder bike might be able to drive up the passenger ramp (1). Then, it would be in the way of emergency exits or entrances (imagine Han and friends on Tatooine retreating up that ramp from Stormtroopers, but a speeder bike is sitting on the ramp).
The man hold (15) has a freight elevator but I'm not sure you could park a speeder bike on it. You might need to drop the elevator then try a Difficult Pilot roll to nose-first the bike up through it and then suddenly stop inside the hold?
Landspeeders? The main hold (15) might be large enough to park a landspeeder inside, but you would need to cut a hole in the roof to drop it in. There isn't a door and passage big enough.
can't carry something like a http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/LAVr_QH-7_Chariot without it being too much.
Worth pointing out that a Chariot is stupid huge, like so big it doesn't even match it's own description. Many EU/Legends landspeeders have this problem with several of the more often mentioned models being at a minimum the size of a small bus. When I use things like the Chariot or Arrow speeder I typically describe them as being the size of a chevy suburban (about 5.5 meters).
Edited by GhostofmanWhat is the rule for how heavy/encumbering a person is? Something having to do with their Brawn right?
Edited by Ryoden5 + Brawn if carried. So a healthy adult male is 7 encumberance. Something most people could carry and most people wouldn't want to.
What is the rule for how heavy/encumbering a person is? Something having to do with their Brawn right?
You could use it as a base for Sil 1, but keep in mind that silhouette ratings are not linear.
So maybe,
(Because a silhouette 1 character is 5+Brawn encumbrance)
(And going on the assumption that each silhouette is twice the dimensions of the previous silhouette)
(And the assumption that encumbrance is more a factor of surface area than it is volume)
(And loosely following the Square Cube Law )
you could go with a formula something like:
5 2 + Armor 2 For a silhouette 2 (Typical Cloud Car is 26)
5 3 + Armor 3 for a silhouette 3 (Typical X-wing is 132)
5 4 + Armor 4 for a silhouette 4 (Typical YT-1300 is 641 )
Makes that hanger bay attachment look real valuable to me.
So if my players ever intent to move vehicles with their ship then I will use the above values to represent if they dismantle and properly stow said vehicles.
That means a YT-1300 can transport 6 collapsed and crated Cloud Cars with room to spare. That seems like a reasonable load to me.
The same ship would just barely fit a disassembled X-wing.
Or 5+ trips to move another YT-1300. (Now you should just get a bigger ship.)
A ship like a Star Galleon Armed Transport can carry over 75 X-wings in it's cargo hold.
Doing this math at the table is obviously not fun (for most) but having it ahead of time or using it to answer tricky questions seems useful.
What do you think?
(Edit: The math is not right. but doing it right made the numbers very high so I like the feel of these better)
Edited by RyodenI would rather just purchase the attachment or hand wave it as a GM.
Much of your post is really logical and would make a lot of sense in another system, but it really feels like it goes against the system dynamics for EotE. I would use what makes sense for you and your players.
We have seen a Scout Ship with space for only 50 Encumbrance that can still pack in 10 speeder bikes.
We have seen a Scout Ship with space for only 50 Encumbrance that can still pack in 10 speeder bikes.
Really? Where is this seen? I'm not up to date with Rebels. Or was it an episode of The Clone Wars?
We have seen a Scout Ship with space for only 50 Encumbrance that can still pack in 10 speeder bikes.
This also brings us back to 'Packing" and what "Over Encumbrance" means for vehicle cargo.
We have seen a Scout Ship with space for only 50 Encumbrance that can still pack in 10 speeder bikes.
Really? Where is this seen? I'm not up to date with Rebels. Or was it an episode of The Clone Wars?
The EotE adventure Beyond the Rim .
They don't give any absolute numbers on what encumbrance means but human and vehicle encumbrance is tracked on the same scale. The book says a large, heavy item such as a "cargo crate" is encumbrance 5 or 6. As the limit for a character is 5 + Brawn a large and strong person could carry more than 5 or 6 so I'm taking cargo crate to be a large box sort of crate. Perhaps around 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.8m in volume. That's the sort of fairly large packing box you might use when moving house so reasonably liftable by a typical adult male.
Using this as my baseline, a YT-1300 could carry about 30 such crates. That's in the configuration that can also carry six passengers. If you re-configured it purely for cargo, you could get in more. Anyway, the YT-1300 is essentially a Space Transit van modified for the sort of long-journeys you get in Space. It could carry a swoop or speederbike by volume and weight. But such a thing would be slightly awkward to get on and off. A little like getting a wardrobe through the door. Doable, but a two-person job or a lot of swearing. Of course if the ship were re-configured for fewer passengers and more cargo, might be easier.
I would say a landspeeder is not an option. For that you probably want something designed for larger cargoes like a Wayfarer.
Guidelines are always going to be a little loose in EotE rules system, but I hope that is of help.
I wouldn't try to compute an answer using encumbrance numbers in this system. Instead, I would just look at a deckplan for the ship, glance at an image of whatever vehicle they want to shove in there, and make a ruling.
For example, look at this YT-1300 deckplan taking note of areas #1,#10, and #15.
The freight loading room (10) might accept a speeder bike at an angle from corner to corner. That would of course get in the way of future freight being loaded. Those doors don't include an elevator. You would need to "fly" the speeder bike up into it. Depending on your interpretation on how high a speeder bike can "jump" this might not be possible at all. If you allow said jumps, I would require an Average pilot roll to land in there with failures, especially Despairs, causing damage or injuries.
You could also argue a speeder bike might be able to drive up the passenger ramp (1). Then, it would be in the way of emergency exits or entrances (imagine Han and friends on Tatooine retreating up that ramp from Stormtroopers, but a speeder bike is sitting on the ramp).
The man hold (15) has a freight elevator but I'm not sure you could park a speeder bike on it. You might need to drop the elevator then try a Difficult Pilot roll to nose-first the bike up through it and then suddenly stop inside the hold?
Landspeeders? The main hold (15) might be large enough to park a landspeeder inside, but you would need to cut a hole in the roof to drop it in. There isn't a door and passage big enough.
If you watch the Family Guy Star Wars special you'll see Peter trying to steal an old couch and had trouble fitting it in the cargo ramp.
Hangar could be an option. I figure that it would be best to have an elevator system for the speeder. This will take up most of the cargo bay, but can give the PCs access to a mode of transportation when using the ship would be ill advised.
If you watch the Family Guy Star Wars special you'll see Peter trying to steal an old couch and had trouble fitting it in the cargo ramp.
Hangar could be an option. I figure that it would be best to have an elevator system for the speeder. This will take up most of the cargo bay, but can give the PCs access to a mode of transportation when using the ship would be ill advised.
Sorry - I can't stand Family Guy. But I could totally see a modification to YT-1300 that provided a large hatch opening below for larger objects. Of course you'd need to suspend the cargo either from the ceiling or with repulsors / tractor beams until you'd closed the hatch and had a floor again (could use the ceiling but that's where the vents are on a YT-1300).
But really at this point, you're working out how to modify a Ford Transit to move 5m scaffolding poles. At some point you ask yourself why you don't just buy a 13m flatbed trailer. I.e. get a wayfarer.
Edited by knasserIIA number of the technical drawings and deckplans for YT-1300 show the cut-out between the front spars to be the cargo hatch, the idea being that cargo pallets/crates would either be forklifted up there (similar to how some aircraft are loaded) or a cargo conveyor belt would be slotted between the spars and locked to the cargo hatch. Some deckplans even suggest that the inside edges of the front spars (are supposed to) contain mini-tractor beams or similar lifting tools to take crates stacked below and lift them up into the cargo hatch. The ramp, then, is just for passengers/crew. (Han removed the cargo lifters to make room for concussion missiles)
This idea actually helps explain a handful of other things about the YT-1300. Like why the ramp leads directly into the crew quarters, and why the cockpit is off center.
The original interpretation (way back) of the Falcon was the two big front spars were, "arms", for picking up cargo. It didn't make sense back then either unless you thought the YT-1300 was a futuristic space forklift for loading much larger craft.
I too like the plans where the stock YT-1300 has a cargo entrance where the concussion missiles are on the Falcon. QuickSilvers ideas work but I also like the idea there was some sort of drop elevator before Chewie and Han messed with it. Looking at the deckplan above imagine that front "box" in front of the cargo loading room having a platform inside that drops to the surface.
Edited by Sturn
We have seen a Scout Ship with space for only 50 Encumbrance that can still pack in 10 speeder bikes.
Really? Where is this seen? I'm not up to date with Rebels. Or was it an episode of The Clone Wars?
The EotE adventure Beyond the Rim .
Oh of course, one of the only books I did not buy. Thanks.