I haven't been able to find any textev either way in the rules. When dice are added by an effect in the Modify Dice step of the attack, are the allowable colors restricted by range?

Example 1: The Opening Salvo objective permits the second player to add dice of any color to his first attack with a ship. This should resolve during the Modify Dice step, same as a Concentrate Fire, as I understand the rules. If the ship was firing at medium or long range, are black dice an allowable addition to the pool?

Example 2: Can a VSD with the Dominator title add its blue dice to an attack role made at long range? EDIT: I had neglected the range text on the Dominator card when I posted this, please ignore this example.

In both cases, the card text does not specify a range, nor does the rules text for modifying dice roles specify that range must be rechecked at this stage - rather, these effects directly add dice of a specified color or set of colors to the pool after it was initially constructed. Therefore I tend to conclude that range is not a factor here - have I missed or misread something?

I haven't been able to find any textev either way in the rules. When dice are added by an effect in the Modify Dice step of the attack, are the allowable colors restricted by range?

Example 1: The Opening Salvo objective permits the second player to add dice of any color to his first attack with a ship. This should resolve during the Modify Dice step, same as a Concentrate Fire, as I understand the rules. If the ship was firing at medium or long range, are black dice an allowable addition to the pool?

Example 2: Can a VSD with the Dominator title add its blue dice to an attack role made at long range?

In both cases, the card text does not specify a range, nor does the rules text for modifying dice roles specify that range must be rechecked at this stage - rather, these effects directly add dice of a specified color or set of colors to the pool after it was initially constructed. Therefore I tend to conclude that range is not a factor here - have I missed or misread something?

Example 1: Opening Salvo says "add dice of any color", so in that situation yes, I think you can add black dice.

Example 2: The Dominator card says "at close-medium range", so you can't add the blue dice when at long range.

That's what I get for not confirming the card text on Dominator before posting, hehe. Good catch, thanks!

I haven't been able to find any textev either way in the rules. When dice are added by an effect in the Modify Dice step of the attack, are the allowable colors restricted by range?

Example 1: The Opening Salvo objective permits the second player to add dice of any color to his first attack with a ship. This should resolve during the Modify Dice step, same as a Concentrate Fire, as I understand the rules. If the ship was firing at medium or long range, are black dice an allowable addition to the pool?

Example 2: Can a VSD with the Dominator title add its blue dice to an attack role made at long range? EDIT: I had neglected the range text on the Dominator card when I posted this, please ignore this example.

In both cases, the card text does not specify a range, nor does the rules text for modifying dice roles specify that range must be rechecked at this stage - rather, these effects directly add dice of a specified color or set of colors to the pool after it was initially constructed. Therefore I tend to conclude that range is not a factor here - have I missed or misread something?

It depends on the effect.

All "Add Dice" Effects I am aware off currently state wether they:

- Add a die of a specific colour (Dominator Title)

- Add a die of any color already present in the pool (Concentrate Fire Dial Effect)

- Add a die of any color (Opening Fire Objective, 2nd player only I believe)

So there shouldn't be any ambiguities.

Edit says:

The range is only relevant for forming the attack pool in step 2 of the attack procedure. I don't see anything (except the effects own described restrictions), that would imply that later those restrictions still apply. (RRG, p2, "Attack")

And if they did, then the card mentioning "any color" would override it thanks to the golden rule.

If you have to add a die that is already in the pool you could not add a black if you fire out of short range. The pool is not the available dice from your arc but those you have already rolled during your attack. So concentrate fire is a no.

With opening salvo, (I have not read the card text) I would assume the die you can add is based on your first attack. So if you attack at close you can add any color but med to long would restrict that I should think.

Granted I can see both interpretations but I would lean more toward the one that doesn't break dice range rules.

With opening salvo, (I have not read the card text) I would assume the die you can add is based on your first attack. So if you attack at close you can add any color but med to long would restrict that I should think.

Granted I can see both interpretations but I would lean more toward the one that doesn't break dice range rules.

The card text of Opening Salvo specifically grants the 2nd player the ability to add any color dice to the pool, distinct from the existing pool - it's different from Concentrate Fire in that respect, since what you can add with that effect is contingent on what you're already throwing. I too can see both interpretations, though I increasingly think my initial interpretation (and with good rationale provided by chrisdk) is likely correct. Hopefully the FAQ will be available soon and will put this one to bed.

After reading the card and seeing that the first player can add two red die to the pool and the second can add two any color die to the pool I'd say it is possible that this card could break the range bands.

I also got a look at the Most Wanted objective card which states "while attacking and objective ship, the attacker may add 1 die of any color that is already in its attack pool to its attack pool"

So since both Concentrate Fire and Most Wanted give any color that's already in the pool, which inherently limits you by range. It's more likely Opening Salvo gives any color to the pool regardless of range.

How ever, if you are at long range and use Most Wanted Opening Salvo to add a black die, you could then use Concentrate fire to add an other black as you now have one in your pool.

How ever, if you are at long range and use Most Wanted to add a black die, you could then use Concentrate fire to add an other black as you now have one in your pool.

Except Most Wanted needs a die to be in the pool for you to add it. So if you attack at long range you only have reds in the pool.

How ever, if you are at long range and use Most Wanted to add a black die, you could then use Concentrate fire to add an other black as you now have one in your pool.

Except Most Wanted needs a die to be in the pool for you to add it. So if you attack at long range you only have reds in the pool.

I meant Opening Salvo, not Most Wanted. Fixed my post.

I think the rules are quit clear.

Rulebook page 13:

So you can add dice that do not mach the range but you can not roll them.

Greetings H

What?

Black dice shoot at short range. Adding black dice to your pool when you're at long range don't help you when you can't use them. That's my take on it, but I know that an FAQ entry will be required.

Then why does the Dominator title specify that you can only add blue dice at short to medium range, if that was already an inherent restriction?

Yes, the rulebook seems quite clear:

"Attack" (Rules Ref pg 2)

Section 2 Roll Atack Dice specifies that you "Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll these dice ." (emphasis mine) You only gather and roll the dice "appropriate for the range" per "the icons on the range ruler". If you can't gather any dice "appropriate for the range" the attack is canceled.

Section 3 Resolve Attack Effects

This step is after the pool is both determined and rolled.

"Effect Use and Timing" (Rules Ref pg 5)

"An effect that modifies attack dice can only be resolved during the 'Resolve Attack Effects' step". This would be Step 3 of the Attack after the pool is determined by battery value and range and already rolled.

"Modifying Dice" (Rules Ref pg 7)

" Add : When a die is added, roll an unused die of the appropriate color into the attack pool."

So it seems to me that the only time the printed dice on the range ruler (or on the ship token) come into play is during Step 2 which is before the Add effect of any upgrades and/or Objective cards. The resolution of Add does not state that the die rolled be checked for range - just that it cannot be one that has already been rolled into the pool. [And no, I don't think you 'lose' the Add if you physically run out of dice. ] Looking at items brought up in this thread, many cards place limitations on the dice; however Opening Salvo does not for player 2. My take on this given the sections quoted would be not only that you could choose to add black dice to a long range attack, but you could also see the result of the roll before deciding which dice to add. Further, if you had multiple Add effects you must choose what order to resolve them in and thus could see the results of the rolls before moving to the next Add.

Keep in mind that you have to gather dice in step 2 before modifying in step 3 and if you can't gather dice the attack is canceled in step 2. For example, if a ship only had black dice in the attacking hull zone it could not use Opening Salvo to Add Red (or any color if player 2) to a ship at medium or long range as it would not be able to gather any dice in step 2 and thus the attack would be canceled.

I see the possible interpretations. But i think page 13 of the rulebook states a rule independant to the steps in an attack.

Each range band on the ruler
depicts which colors of attack dice he can roll.

I think this is clear. It doesnt matter what colours of dice you assembled and in which step you assembled them. But you only roll colours matching to the range ruler.

In my play group we agreed on this. But yeah, we really have to wait for a FFG statement in FaQ.

Greetings H

I see the possible interpretations. But i think page 13 of the rulebook states a rule independant to the steps in an attack.

Each range band on the ruler

depicts which colors of attack dice he can roll.

I think this is clear. It doesnt matter what colours of dice you assembled and in which step you assembled them. But you only roll colours matching to the range ruler.

In my play group we agreed on this. But yeah, we really have to wait for a FFG statement in FaQ.

Greetings H

Except that that is the "Learn to play" rules, which are not really relevant as they are a shortened and simplified version of the actual rules.

And in case of contradictions, the Reference Rules are correct (Golden Rule, p 1, Reference Rules)

I just cant find a rule in the reference booklet that contradicts page 13 of the rulebook.

I m not trying to convince anyone, that i am right. You can play as your group decides to. I m just telling my point of view, and how we are playing it. Till there is an official FaQ our group will continue playing our way.

Greetings

H

The issue is the L2P never addresses how or even when you Add Dice to an Attack Roll. In only talks about what amounts to Step 2 of the Attack Step. Only the Attack Example on a later page and the reference to the Concentrate Fire Command even make note of the fact that you can manipulate the roll, and doesn't even go into any detail beyond using that Command. The L2P is intended to get players through a demo, it isn't intended or written with the specificity needed to actually address the rules.

But since that is the stance you want to take then what is the purpose of the Dominator going out of it's way to restrict itself to close-medium range if that is an inherent restriction to blue dice anyway.

I mentioned this in the Opening Salvo thread. See Squadron Attacks: They use all three color dice (depending on the squadron) BUT must attack at range 1. So, this is an example that dice color is not dependent on range.

I think the rules are quit clear.

Rulebook page 13:

Each range band on the ruler[/size] depicts which colors of attack dice he can roll. [/size]

So you can add dice that do not mach the range but you can not roll them.

Greetings H

This.

I don't see anything that would break the range restrictions

Being able to use a short range weapon at long range makes no sense.

It's like trying to use a shotgun in place of a sniper rifle.

It just would never work.

The rounds themselves would never make it to the target

I side on the range ruler only being used for the battery armament selection, if only for the fact that a serious number of upgrades become useless and unreasonably overpriced if they are restricted by the ruler.

Additionally I think the attack section on page 2 of the rule reference is pretty clear the the range ruler is only used to gather dice out of the battery armament pool.

Some of the new cards in the expansions allow dice outside the 'range' on the range ruler so I figure the Opening Salvo text means ANY dice. However to add to the issue even more is the text that says a legal attack is one where the target is within range at the first stage - so does this mean you can't add dice to an attack to hit longer range than your initial hull armament (as in the corvettes with blue can only fire to medium range no matter what) ?

However to add to the issue even more is the text that says a legal attack is one where the target is within range at the first stage - so does this mean you can't add dice to an attack to hit longer range than your initial hull armament (as in the corvettes with blue can only fire to medium range no matter what) ?

That is correct, in step 2 the rules explicitly tells you to cancel the attack if no dice appropriate to range can be gathered. Adding dice is ni step 3, so in your example, the attack is canceled befor any additional modifications can be made.