Businesses hire or contract people whose entire job is just to figure out what the best price point would be for a given product. Businesses do not always try to sell their product at the cheapest price that still gives a profit - Armada might be priced higher on purpose so that FFG has a "standard" and "luxury" miniatures line, for instance.

Unless you drop some real marketing or econ knowledge and show what they're doing is wrong, I'm confident that FFG is pricing and marketing their product in the manner which they have found most conducive to their goals.

I don't know if using a $100 expansion like the Raider is a good example. Don't get me wrong I like the Raider and want an Imperial Epic. But for people that have two TIE Advanced fighters and a small collection for 100 point X-Wing games the Raider is a little hard to swallow just to make the TIE Advanced a better play.

it is

I'm putting no opinion in to how this relates at large to people searching for upgrade cards, just citing it as an example of the kind of cards FFG put multiples of in their X-wing Miniatures Expansion Sets (Apart from EU, haven't seen multiples of a card that wasn't either an expansion fix like PTL, or a direct fix like the Tie/x1)

My only real complaint is that I need to by ships of a faction I do not care about just to get the cards in it for the faction I do care about. I really wish I didn't have to do that. I feel that is lame. =/ I seriously wish cards were seperated for Rebel or Empire use, and not mix matched.

My only real complaint is that I need to by ships of a faction I do not care about just to get the cards in it for the faction I do care about. I really wish I didn't have to do that. I feel that is lame. =/ I seriously wish cards were seperated for Rebel or Empire use, and not mix matched.

If that were the case, FFG would have to print two different versions of the card.

My only real complaint is that I need to by ships of a faction I do not care about just to get the cards in it for the faction I do care about. I really wish I didn't have to do that. I feel that is lame. =/ I seriously wish cards were seperated for Rebel or Empire use, and not mix matched.

which cards in particular are you looking for?

thus far, FFG seems to be doing a much better job of including powerful, relevant cards with their ship expansions. Not to mention that the amount of imperial/rebel only upgrades may have already overtaken X-wing's mainly thanks to the abundant commanders and ship titles, which thankfully come with their relevant ships

I have found that all the people i play against dont mind me using proxy cards.

If you want to spam a list for a tournament then normally other players will lend me cards they are not using and i do the same. Next time theres a new meta and different cards are 'needed'

If FFG would make a list building app similar to privateer press's for warmahordes they could just charge a few bucks to unlock each waves card packs.

I really would love that. The War Room is a very nice app with some lovely options and having it all in one application is really convenient and I really didn't mind buying decks even though I had the cards that came with my miniatures.

And it even wouldn't be that hard for FFG, given that they are already selling an app that is supposed to help you with Armada/X-Wing.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

If FFG would make a list building app similar to privateer press's for warmahordes they could just charge a few bucks to unlock each waves card packs.

I really would love that. The War Room is a very nice app with some lovely options and having it all in one application is really convenient and I really didn't mind buying decks even though I had the cards that came with my miniatures.

And it even wouldn't be that hard for FFG, given that they are already selling an app that is supposed to help you with Armada/X-Wing.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

Sorry, but no one is being "forced" to buy anything. FFG isn't sending Stormtroopers to anyone's house to march them down to their LGS to buy a Raider or two. FFG is offering a fix to the TIE Advanced, along with a TIE Advanced model and a Raider model. If you feel that it's worth the money, buy it. Otherwise, don't.

I think getting multiples of certain upgrade cards will be less important in armada than it was in x-wing, so I am less concerned.

My only real complaint is that I need to by ships of a faction I do not care about just to get the cards in it for the faction I do care about. I really wish I didn't have to do that. I feel that is lame. =/ I seriously wish cards were seperated for Rebel or Empire use, and not mix matched.

If that were the case, FFG would have to print two different versions of the card.

Why would they need to print doubles of cards? If the Imperials are the only one who get "Concusion Missile Assault" then they're the only ones who get it. I as a Rebel Player do not feel like I have to buy a gladiator just to get that card because by game design I can't use it anyway for my rebels in Tournament play anyway. I the player just see that as "Man, Imps get a cool missile!" And if FFG decides that Rebels should get something similar to that game mechanic, they put a card in one of our ship expansions that gives us a similar game mechanic. It works out. Might I covette their awesome "Cuncusion Missile Assault?" Yes... but that is far more desireable than needing to spend 30 bucks on a model I don't care about to get the card I do for my tournament play. Might they have to print double? Ya, and I'd take a bump in price of a dollar or two for that ... rather than having to spend between 20 and 50 dollars for the same thing!

I'm actually asking, from a design perspective, that they just keep the upgrades and stuff seperated so that I the player don't NEED to buy models and ships I don't want to get cards I do want if playing tournament games. [This entire point is MOOT when it comes to casual play] And before anyone says "No one is forcing you to do this!" For casual, you're right, but for competetive tournaments, you're wrong... Oh, you mean I don't have to play? Well, there goes a customer out the window for FFG by using that argument. Not very helpful either =)

My only real complaint is that I need to by ships of a faction I do not care about just to get the cards in it for the faction I do care about. I really wish I didn't have to do that. I feel that is lame. =/ I seriously wish cards were seperated for Rebel or Empire use, and not mix matched.

which cards in particular are you looking for?

thus far, FFG seems to be doing a much better job of including powerful, relevant cards with their ship expansions. Not to mention that the amount of imperial/rebel only upgrades may have already overtaken X-wing's mainly thanks to the abundant commanders and ship titles, which thankfully come with their relevant ships

Right now, I'm don't see any. Or at least I haven't seen yet what the expansions are giving us and so I do not know better as of yet. However, based on experience from X-Wing... I'm expecting it... Heavily... A good example is when A-Wings and Intercepters came out. Push the Limit was awesome, but it was in the A-Wing set I believe. If I wanted it for the tournaments being played at the hobby shop, 15 bucks for an A-Wing just for that card. That is one of many examples. Did they fix it later? Sure, after they made some money off of it otherwise. I'm a designer too though, so I get it. They probably didn't know certain cards would be huge hits on ships they didn't come with.

My main concern is that this will be at the scale of the Lambda Shuttle, or the Rebel Transport... Instead of 15 bucks, I'm spending between 20 and 50 bucks to get a card or two I want.

=====

In the end I think a lot of player grief might be solved if the Tournaments just allowed cards as proxies. Models required, but cards can be proxied.

If FFG would make a list building app similar to privateer press's for warmahordes they could just charge a few bucks to unlock each waves card packs.

I really would love that. The War Room is a very nice app with some lovely options and having it all in one application is really convenient and I really didn't mind buying decks even though I had the cards that came with my miniatures.

And it even wouldn't be that hard for FFG, given that they are already selling an app that is supposed to help you with Armada/X-Wing.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

Sorry, but no one is being "forced" to buy anything. FFG isn't sending Stormtroopers to anyone's house to march them down to their LGS to buy a Raider or two. FFG is offering a fix to the TIE Advanced, along with a TIE Advanced model and a Raider model. If you feel that it's worth the money, buy it. Otherwise, don't.

No offense, but this is one of the most stupid things I ever read. OF COURSE noone forces us to buy anything!

Do you really think that expecting people to buy 2 TIE Defenders and/or two Imperial Aces packs while playing Rebels or Scums just to get a few cards (Predator, Opportunist) required for a competitive list is a good practice?

Let me quote you something:

It's funny how people are complaining how expensive this game is. When you look at the over all price of X-wing and some of the cheaper or more expensive lists.

World's 2014 winning list - Paul Heaver

Fat Han (Predator + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Falcon Title + Engine) + 3 Z-95s

Starter set - $40

Falcon - $30

Tantive IV - $90

Defender - $15

Z-95 x 3 - $45

Total = $215

World's Runner up list - Morgan Reid

Whisper (VI + FCS + Tactician + ACD) + Academy x 3 + Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)

Starter set x 2 - $80

Tie Fighter - $15

Tie Phantom - $15

Firespray or Falcon - $30

Lambda Shuttle - $30

Total = $170

Multiple Store Championship list

B - Wing x 4 + Z-95 Headhunter

Starter set - $40

B-Wings x 4 = $60

Z-95 x 1 - $15

Total = $115

Panic Attack list

B-Wing x 3 (Tactitian + E2 upgrade) + Y-Wing (Ion cannon turret + R3-A2)

Starter set - $40

B-Wing x 1 - $15

Rebel Aces x 2 - $60

Y-Wing x 1 - $15

Rebel Transport - $60

Tie Phantoms x 3 - $45

Total = $235

Tie Swarm

Howlruner (Swarm Tactics) + Backstabber + Black (Draw their fire) + 3 x Acadamies + Obsidian

Starter set x 3 - $120

Tie Fighter - $15

Falcon - $30

Total = $165

Fat Dash and Corran

Dash (PTL + Kyle + Engine + HLC + Outrider) Corran (VI + R2-D2+ FCS)

Starter set - $40

Dash - $30

E-Wing - $15

Falcon - $30

Rebel Aces - $30

A-Wing - $15

B-Wing - $15

Total = $175

Every X-Wing list costs you at least $100. Some lists are really unique and only have 1 application while some are really diverse in their usage. Take a second and this about what the average list costs you to put together.

Edit: Spelling and Grammar

Look how many -UNNECESSARY- models you pay for in a tournament squad for X-wing just to get a couple cards. Not to mention being forced to get the starter set even if you don't -ever- intend to use those three ships and only need the accessories and damage decks.

Seriously, man, stop being so protective of FFG, they can make bad choices too and criticizing them for those is alright, because they may realize that people aren't too fond of that and decide to correct themselves.

At least try to understand my point.

Then again there still are people who defend Games Workshop, so why do I bother with forums...

Low volume, high margin. Thats the jargon used for luxury goods and niche products like these. They COULD be cheaper but they wont. Simply because there is a hard cap on how many units a consumer will purchase in their lifetime.

If FFG would make a list building app similar to privateer press's for warmahordes they could just charge a few bucks to unlock each waves card packs.

I really would love that. The War Room is a very nice app with some lovely options and having it all in one application is really convenient and I really didn't mind buying decks even though I had the cards that came with my miniatures.

And it even wouldn't be that hard for FFG, given that they are already selling an app that is supposed to help you with Armada/X-Wing.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

Sorry, but no one is being "forced" to buy anything. FFG isn't sending Stormtroopers to anyone's house to march them down to their LGS to buy a Raider or two. FFG is offering a fix to the TIE Advanced, along with a TIE Advanced model and a Raider model. If you feel that it's worth the money, buy it. Otherwise, don't.

No offense, but this is one of the most stupid things I ever read. OF COURSE noone forces us to buy anything!

Do you really think that expecting people to buy 2 TIE Defenders and/or two Imperial Aces packs while playing Rebels or Scums just to get a few cards (Predator, Opportunist) required for a competitive list is a good practice?

Let me quote you something:

It's funny how people are complaining how expensive this game is. When you look at the over all price of X-wing and some of the cheaper or more expensive lists.

World's 2014 winning list - Paul Heaver

Fat Han (Predator + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Falcon Title + Engine) + 3 Z-95s

Starter set - $40

Falcon - $30

Tantive IV - $90

Defender - $15

Z-95 x 3 - $45

Total = $215

World's Runner up list - Morgan Reid[/size]

Whisper (VI + FCS + Tactician + ACD) + Academy x 3 + Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)

Starter set x 2 - $80

Tie Fighter - $15

Tie Phantom - $15

Firespray or Falcon - $30

Lambda Shuttle - $30

Total = $170

Multiple Store Championship list

B - Wing x 4 + Z-95 Headhunter

Starter set - $40

B-Wings x 4 = $60

Z-95 x 1 - $15

Total = $115

Panic Attack list

B-Wing x 3 (Tactitian + E2 upgrade) + Y-Wing (Ion cannon turret + R3-A2)

Starter set - $40

B-Wing x 1 - $15

Rebel Aces x 2 - $60

Y-Wing x 1 - $15

Rebel Transport - $60

Tie Phantoms x 3 - $45

Total = $235

Tie Swarm

Howlruner (Swarm Tactics) + Backstabber + Black (Draw their fire) + 3 x Acadamies + Obsidian

Starter set x 3 - $120

Tie Fighter - $15

Falcon - $30

Total = $165

Fat Dash and Corran

Dash (PTL + Kyle + Engine + HLC + Outrider) Corran (VI + R2-D2+ FCS)

Starter set - $40

Dash - $30

E-Wing - $15

Falcon - $30

Rebel Aces - $30

A-Wing - $15

B-Wing - $15

Total = $175

Every X-Wing list costs you at least $100. Some lists are really unique and only have 1 application while some are really diverse in their usage. Take a second and this about what the average list costs you to put together.

Edit: Spelling and Grammar

Look how many -UNNECESSARY- models you pay for in a tournament squad for X-wing just to get a couple cards. Not to mention being forced to get the starter set even if you don't -ever- intend to use those three ships and only need the accessories and damage decks.

Seriously, man, stop being so protective of FFG, they can make bad choices too and criticizing them for those is alright, because they may realize that people aren't too fond of that and decide to correct themselves.

At least try to understand my point.

Then again there still are people who defend Games Workshop, so why do I bother with forums...

The better question is why should the forums bother with you? If you want to play a game with all the pieces already in the box theres risk and chess. Even boardgames these days have expansions and stuff and god help you if you want to play a non collectible card game like dominion. This is their business model. If you dont like it then dont buy and dont play. Dont go on some useless rant about them losing a customer because the reality is that you are not their target consumer.

Their target consumer is the one that will spend X amount of dollars. If you are not willing to do so then you are not their target market and just walk away.

Fair enough, I guess we'll not get into any constructive discussion on this matter, so I will end it here as it missed the point entirely.

I'd argue about what you said with me not being their target customer, but there's no point.

Fair enough, I guess we'll not get into any constructive discussion on this matter, so I will end it here as it missed the point entirely.

I'd argue about what you said with me not being their target customer, but there's no point.

Great sarcasm there. Its you who are taking this thread on a pointless and ultimately circular jaunt through FFG's business model.

Your SOLE argument is "look how many useless models you have to buy to play tier 1 lists". So what? That's the name of the game. FFG and other companies in this business have to sell models in order to make it worth while for them to keep producing their respective games. It WOULD be nice if would just release a pack of cards that had all the upgrades and crew we need but that would ultimately reduce the lifetime spend of their consumer segment. Which means they either reduce or end development of the game. Then the game dies and you get to buy ALL the models and cards you want from the $2 discount bins. But then there will be no one left to play with because everyone would have moved on to games with actual ongoing development.

If it costs $200 a year to be a competitive player (it probably costs far less than that) and you are only willing to spend $50 then guess what? Unless you are willing to beg/borrow/steal the ships and cards you need you are NOT going to be a competitive player. The only real options for you are to either find generous friends with a surplus of 'useless' cards and ships, accept the fact that you will probably never be a champion and just fly fkn casual, or quit the game for one that suits your disposable income. Going on a one sided rant about how unfair this is on a forum with all the grace of a petulant child is not even in the neighborhood of constructive discussion.

I have found that all the people i play against dont mind me using proxy cards.

If you want to spam a list for a tournament then normally other players will lend me cards they are not using and i do the same. Next time theres a new meta and different cards are 'needed'

I've used proxies... but I'd rather use game components.

[...]

Your SOLE argument is "look how many useless models you have to buy to play tier 1 lists". So what? That's the name of the game. FFG and other companies in this business have to sell models in order to make it worth while for them to keep producing their respective games. It WOULD be nice if would just release a pack of cards that had all the upgrades and crew we need but that would ultimately reduce the lifetime spend of their consumer segment. Which means they either reduce or end development of the game. Then the game dies and you get to buy ALL the models and cards you want from the $2 discount bins. But then there will be no one left to play with because everyone would have moved on to games with actual ongoing development.

If it costs $200 a year to be a competitive player (it probably costs far less than that) and you are only willing to spend $50 then guess what? Unless you are willing to beg/borrow/steal the ships and cards you need you are NOT going to be a competitive player. The only real options for you are to either find generous friends with a surplus of 'useless' cards and ships, accept the fact that you will probably never be a champion and just fly fkn casual, or quit the game for one that suits your disposable income. Going on a one sided rant about how unfair this is on a forum with all the grace of a petulant child is not even in the neighborhood of constructive discussion.

Well that is a rather stark blank and white assessment. We may not all agree that the only viable business model is to sell needed cards in ships only some want to play.

FFG could easily publish the rules, upgrades and tokes as a set and the ships individually. Then we would be free to buy and build our squads/fleets to suit.

If the game is good then we will play it; if the game is active then there will be tournaments; if the universe is popular, and I believe Star Wars is right now, then there will be new interests. I didn't say, 'oh cool business model I think I'll try that game'. I said 'WOW! A highly detailed Millennium Falcon with a cool paint job right out of the box? I'm in. Oh and there's a game too? Cool.'

Pardon if I came of snarky, not my intent.

Fair enough, I guess we'll not get into any constructive discussion on this matter, so I will end it here as it missed the point entirely.

I'd argue about what you said with me not being their target customer, but there's no point.

Great sarcasm there. Its you who are taking this thread on a pointless and ultimately circular jaunt through FFG's business model.

Your SOLE argument is "look how many useless models you have to buy to play tier 1 lists". So what? That's the name of the game. FFG and other companies in this business have to sell models in order to make it worth while for them to keep producing their respective games.

It’s not true. FFG is only one company with miniatures game with this game/sales model. In all skirmish games known to me on legal tournament you have to use original miniatures, and prox is only used in reference to miniatures not some pieces of paper furthermore some companies even let you to freely download all you need for game (instructions, markers, etc.) because they earn on selling MODELS (hint: this is why they are called miniatures games/companies). Second thing is that nearly all of players are to some extent competitive, and this game/sales model is deterrent for new players who want to try themselves in tournaments.

[...] Second thing is that nearly all of players are to some extent competitive, and this game/sales model is deterrent for new players who want to try themselves in tournaments.

I could see how this might give pause to new tournament players. Long term then, it is possible this could hurt the game if true.

Ksin, your last statement is just not true. The amount of players that attend events, particularly ones in which you'd be completely unable to proxy, is only a fraction of people that buy FFGS games.

Ksin, your last statement is just not true. The amount of players that attend events, particularly ones in which you'd be completely unable to proxy, is only a fraction of people that buy FFGS games.

In a different thread someone else made the argument that X-Wing survives and dies by it's tournament exposure.

Maybe there are two sides. I'd still prefer and release of upgrade cards.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

Sorry, but no one is being "forced" to buy anything. FFG isn't sending Stormtroopers to anyone's house to march them down to their LGS to buy a Raider or two. FFG is offering a fix to the TIE Advanced, along with a TIE Advanced model and a Raider model. If you feel that it's worth the money, buy it. Otherwise, don't.

No offense, but this is one of the most stupid things I ever read. OF COURSE noone forces us to buy anything!

Do you really think that expecting people to buy 2 TIE Defenders and/or two Imperial Aces packs while playing Rebels or Scums just to get a few cards (Predator, Opportunist) required for a competitive list is a good practice?

Except that you made the claim, and I'm quoting you here, that

"... but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card..."

You used the word "Forced" twice, so clearly you felt that people were being forced to do something. It's awfully disingenuous to claim that FFG is forcing people to buy things, and then turn around and claim that no one is forcing people to buy things.

As for business practices... it's really sweet that you guys use "you don't need to have cards in casual games" as an argument, but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card -is- terrible business practice and the fact that people sell singles on the internet is not an argument against that fact, it's a workaround for players.

Sorry, but no one is being "forced" to buy anything. FFG isn't sending Stormtroopers to anyone's house to march them down to their LGS to buy a Raider or two. FFG is offering a fix to the TIE Advanced, along with a TIE Advanced model and a Raider model. If you feel that it's worth the money, buy it. Otherwise, don't.

No offense, but this is one of the most stupid things I ever read. OF COURSE noone forces us to buy anything!

Do you really think that expecting people to buy 2 TIE Defenders and/or two Imperial Aces packs while playing Rebels or Scums just to get a few cards (Predator, Opportunist) required for a competitive list is a good practice?

Except that you made the claim, and I'm quoting you here, that

"... but if you play in a tournament and are forced to buy a Raider just to get TIE Advanced fix card it's a whole different beast. Forcing people to buy models just to get one card..."

You used the word "Forced" twice, so clearly you felt that people were being forced to do something. It's awfully disingenuous to claim that FFG is forcing people to buy things, and then turn around and claim that no one is forcing people to buy things.

Perhaps forced is a strong word. How about expects. I don't think that FFG expects people to go to a third party for their game components to play so let's just stay with FFG officially sanctioned market channels and products. In doing so there are several cards that people think are useful and want to play but to get them in a number that's typical for a normal squad will require either multiple purchases of different ships all together or in the case above a $100 Epic ship. Like I said I'm looking forward to getting and buying the Raider so I won't run the same problem that others will.

But it can be a tough model. Maybe not the best for it's fans but certainly not the worst either. X-Wing is a great game and it appears that most like Armada too.

Maybe FFG is finding and working out all the kinks with all of these upgrades, ships being one or two points under or over costed etc... and this is the beta that we all get to play and love before FFG comes out with 2.0 and a single set of cards for all ships. Woo Hoo!!!!

Fair enough, I guess we'll not get into any constructive discussion on this matter, so I will end it here as it missed the point entirely.

I'd argue about what you said with me not being their target customer, but there's no point.

Great sarcasm there. Its you who are taking this thread on a pointless and ultimately circular jaunt through FFG's business model.

Your SOLE argument is "look how many useless models you have to buy to play tier 1 lists". So what? That's the name of the game. FFG and other companies in this business have to sell models in order to make it worth while for them to keep producing their respective games. It WOULD be nice if would just release a pack of cards that had all the upgrades and crew we need but that would ultimately reduce the lifetime spend of their consumer segment. Which means they either reduce or end development of the game. Then the game dies and you get to buy ALL the models and cards you want from the $2 discount bins. But then there will be no one left to play with because everyone would have moved on to games with actual ongoing development.

If it costs $200 a year to be a competitive player (it probably costs far less than that) and you are only willing to spend $50 then guess what? Unless you are willing to beg/borrow/steal the ships and cards you need you are NOT going to be a competitive player. The only real options for you are to either find generous friends with a surplus of 'useless' cards and ships, accept the fact that you will probably never be a champion and just fly fkn casual, or quit the game for one that suits your disposable income. Going on a one sided rant about how unfair this is on a forum with all the grace of a petulant child is not even in the neighborhood of constructive discussion.

As far as I know X-Wing is the only miniatures game, and Armada is the only miniatures wargame like game that uses this tactic. If I play Space Marines, I don't need to buy Tyranids and Eldar to get the pieces I need to finish out my war list. Same for Warmachine and Horde, same for Distopian Future... Same for a lot of miniature wargame like games. I'll admit X-Wing is a little weird, in that it's not quite considered a wargame, but it has a lot of elements from it... But Armada is definitely shaping up to be a wargame.

New Note:

I'd also agree that it's a bit daunting to new players to get into things and play. I tell them just to buy the models and use a "Squad Builder" to proxy cards, because I personally don't care... But I know when they go to a hobby shop, it's hit or miss if they'll be able to play or not casually unless they have the cards they need for their builds. Warhammer is daunting too! But at least they know they can slowly buy the "team" they want to play and all the stuff they get will be useful to that team. So nothing feels wasted.

Point is, It's a mind set thing. This game sucks from the player mind set if they want to stick to just one faction and really don't like the other faction at all. It's a little better than CCG's, because at least you know how to get the cards you want without buying 20 packs to get it randomly... But you're still wasting money to get what you need to fill out your list competitively. On top of it it's the mind set that "I don't really have the cards and have to use proxies." That mind set for some people feels like they're cheating and not playing "up to par" with other players who have spent the extra money to get the actual cards for their team. It's a mentality thing, and really if that's not fun, people will back away.

Same for a lot of miniature wargame like games.

All those other games have other ways to get you to keep buying stuff. They all have some sort of gimmick to keep getting your money.

The upgrade cards is FFG's, it is only different in how it works, not in what the purpose is.

Point is, It's a mind set thing. This game sucks from the player mind set if they want to stick to just one faction and really don't like the other faction at all.

I will agree that X-Wing at least is very much that way. You are hard pressed to collect only one faction. But IA doesn't have that issue so far, and from what little we know it seems that Armada may be more single faction friendly.

Same for a lot of miniature wargame like games.

All those other games have other ways to get you to keep buying stuff. They all have some sort of gimmick to keep getting your money.

The upgrade cards is FFG's, it is only different in how it works, not in what the purpose is.

Point is, It's a mind set thing. This game sucks from the player mind set if they want to stick to just one faction and really don't like the other faction at all.

I will agree that X-Wing at least is very much that way. You are hard pressed to collect only one faction. But IA doesn't have that issue so far, and from what little we know it seems that Armada may be more single faction friendly.

That would be awesome if that turns out to be the case.

But I still have my fingers crossed for not needing multiple purchases either.

But we'll see.