BBBBZ seems to have established itself as a popular and solid competitive build. Is there a chance XXXXZ could compete with the Bs by utilizing those 4 points it has left somehow. The first thing that comes up in my mind is Biggs of course, but I´m sure there are other options. What do you think?

I think you would be better off utilizing XXXZZZ in this situation tbh. That leaves a point so if you want to throw a B in there you could.

Not really... 3 Shields > 1 extra agility die. You won't be out-flying the Bs even if you equipped R2 astros. It would really come down to dice luck, but the matchup favors the more robust Bs.

It totally puts your fate in the dice gods hands and they are very unforgiving. Also if you do win initiative the Bwings get to knife fight you and arc dodge you. It is still not a good matchup.

Could you swap an X for an ion Y?

That might make all the difference

The X-wing is inferior in a straight dice-off

The X-wing also can't barrel-roll

gotta agree with hujoe, if you don't outnumber them you're just gonna get steamrolled

I was thinking about this a bit ago, and I think the best thing is R3A2. That gives you some neat control options. Honestly, with the remaining 2 points I'd probably sub a Rookie for a Gold Squadron with Ion Cannon Turret and BTL-A4 title. You probably put R3A2 on that Y to try and double-dip the stress. It gives you the same or more firepower as BBBBZ, but you get some control options at the expense of durability. You're also faster, for whatever that is worth.

For almost any game, removing chance has the highest success rate. Super serious competitive gamers will do anything they can to remove variables. The X-wing might be more survivable, but it might not. Depends on how you roll.

Head to head no as said before three extra hit points beats one more green dice, not sure they even have an edge if your trying to flank.

No, you're just making a strictly worse list, use XXXZZZ instead (although it could be argued that is also strictly worse than BBBBZ). There's no 1 point upgrade that can make a Rookie better than a B-Wing.

Biggs might be enough! Haha. And I could see situations in a joust where the 4k Turn from the X Wings lets them get shots on the backs of the B Wings who were incapable of K Turning with the 2K, depending on who has Init and what not.

But that is only in an XXXXZ vs BBBBZ matchup. In general, BBBBZ holds its own vs more squads and is much more flexible thanks to having Barrel Roll.

No, you're just making a strictly worse list, use XXXZZZ instead (although it could be argued that is also strictly worse than BBBBZ). There's no 1 point upgrade that can make a Rookie better than a B-Wing.

I know, that´s why I named Biggs as an example of a difference (you combine the 4x1 points into a single 4 point upgrade).

If you could somehow force them into crappier shots at Biggs or cause them to spread damage around, you may have a shot. It would still be an uphill battle.

How does Biggs make that list better? Nobody was going to attack the Z first anyway, so he's just a PS 5 Rookie.

Edit: It's unlikely that a decent list will be unable to kill a naked Biggs in 2 rounds of shooting before he can hobble away, so I don't see Biggs being able to "spread damage" all that often.

The only reason that BBBBZ is good is that in timed tournament play, its really rough to score many points off of it...much less wipe it out.

On vassal its sort of a crap squad honestly. Good at jousting and thats pretty much it. Easy to fly circles around it b/c vassal games arent timed.

Dont use BBBBZ as a benchmark...its not really a superior squad at anything other than having good firepower and lots of hp's.

Not particularly maneuverable.

No initiative bid.

Absolutely NO action economy.

Totally ignores ps. Gives away first shot while still being vulnerable to "true blockers"

The squad encourages slowplay in timed tournaments for the one flying it.

Given enough TIME, any proficient and decent squad can beat it.

That all being said, neither XXXXZ or XXXZZZ are as good at what BBBBZ actually does well. That being "survive for 60-75 min of play without giving up more points than i shoot down."

What about XXXXA?

Use the Prototype Pilot for slamming into the BBBBZ formations and deny their actions.

Right, Biggs might force a split of the opening firing, somehow, haha. The good Biggs players know how to use em, but I've never really tried! A strong Range 3 Biggs and Range 2 rest of your squad engagement might put you ahead enough, and 3 Green dice and 5 HP has a chance to live through that engagement, maybe. And/or deploying Biggs to come in from the side could cause split fire for a round, which MIGHT allow this sort of squad to have enough advantage to secure a victory.

ALSO, the 2 Agility of the X Wing does make it a bit better in a 2 Dice swarm heavy meta, and Biggs in general is really good in that meta.

But alas, harder to utilize and less flexible, so I wouldn't count on it dominating the same way that BBBBZ has managed to.

What about XXXXA?

Use the Prototype Pilot for slamming into the BBBBZ formations and deny their actions.

The thread isn't about creating a list that counters BBBBZ, it's about using X-Wings to emulate the tournament success of BBBBZ lists. Once you start trading shields for green dice, you miss the point of what BBBBZ is all about, which is nerfing the super accurate but low damage output of 2-ship builds.

ALSO, the 2 Agility of the X Wing does make it a bit better in a 2 Dice swarm heavy meta, and Biggs in general is really good in that meta.

But alas, harder to utilize and less flexible, so I wouldn't count on it dominating the same way that BBBBZ has managed to.

2 agility hasn't stopped XXXX from getting wrecked by TIE Swarms since Wave 1, I guarantee you 3 extra shields is always going to be better than 1 more defense dice.

The only reason that BBBBZ is good is that in timed tournament play, its really rough to score many points off of it...much less wipe it out.

eh, the fattie does that far better than BBBBZ

I'm positive BBBBZ came about as a direct response to the turret spam of Wave 5. Since maneuverability is absolutely worthless against the ill-conceived 360 degree shots, you can only hope to throw as much dice as you possibly can at them. BBBBZ has the most effective (Z-95s tend to get popped before they get too many shots off and X-wings are only 1 hull better) amount of dice to toss at fatties and they have enough hp to weather their guaranteed shots.

At 1 agility and very low maneuverability past speed 2 (and no boost), B-wings aren't particularly difficult to kill. They are, however, guaranteed to exchange some fire for a few turns, whereas a fickler tie defenses can give out far sooner.

The only reason that BBBBZ is good is that in timed tournament play, its really rough to score many points off of it...much less wipe it out.

eh, the fattie does that far better than BBBBZ

I'm positive BBBBZ came about as a direct response to the turret spam of Wave 5. Since maneuverability is absolutely worthless against the ill-conceived 360 degree shots, you can only hope to throw as much dice as you possibly can at them. BBBBZ has the most effective (Z-95s tend to get popped before they get too many shots off and X-wings are only 1 hull better) amount of dice to toss at fatties and they have enough hp to weather their guaranteed shots.

It's a combination of both.

XXYYZ (with a pair of ICTs and/or the BTL-A4 title) might be as close as you can get to a BBBBZ alternative with X-wings included prominently. B-wings don't like ion, and the 360 arcs or the double tap options both have advantages against agility 1 grinders. Negate the mobility option while they have actions available, or simply chuck more dice they can't expect to dodge.

I really like that xxyyz list. You get some of the durability back, some control, and more mid and close range firepower.