In my game I was the Imperial and the Rebel players I game with are very experienced and strong gamers.

In fact they consistently make excellent decisions and fewer mistakes than I do. I often find myself thinking, "If they do XYZ that will be best for them." and then that's exactly what they do.

As the Imps I make more errors than they do. In fact in my last game one of them had to remind me that I forgot to activate an imperial guard much to their detriment.

Anyway I say all that to preface this as a good group of gamers, yet "Desperate Hour" was a slaughter. Rebels lost.

In short I don't think this scenario is winnable unless they reach the clearing unwounded by round 5 AND they have the ability to stun Weiss very regularly.

Even then there is an overwhelming amount of other firepower and of course some Rebels can get trapped on the other side of the door.

Seems pretty much unwinnable even without the Imps deploying a bunch of cheap cards to buy more activations for Weiss.

We had fun with the game along the way but the finale was one of the worst boardgame experiences I've ever had.

In the end I wish the game was co-op and had challenging but winnable experiences because as the Imp it feels like you just make cheap plays and "game" the game rather than just play Star Wars heroes.

Ugh, it basically sucked real bad. Anybody have Rebels that actually won Desperate Hour?

... Maybe they shouldn't have lost "Chain of Command"

In all seriousness - this is a game where you don't necessarily play to "win". You play for the experience. There are strategic elements in the game, but this isn't chess. Not happy how that campaign turned out? Play another. Yeah - you lost the finale - but what if we had this hero with us instead - or if I saved up for this ability instead of using these abilities?

Every time you play this game, there will be different outcomes and different experiences. Also keep in mind that some of these missions were designed for the Rebels or Imperials to lose. Thinking that "these players should win because they are better gamers in general" should not apply.

Seriously - play it again. Switch it up. Have fun!

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate those points.

I think my most valid question is, has anyone gotten a Rebel victory in this one?

I'd really be curious to what other players experienced in this finale.

We went into this mission expecting to loose.

The Imperial player won 7 missions in a row. He also won the supply deficit reward pretty early on which made it very difficult to purchase items for our heroes and taking 2 strain to start off each mission was nightmare worthy because he was using subervisive tactics. And of course he saved all the agenda cards for the very end which meant bonus threat increases and focused Imperial figures.

We must have spent like 6 turns trying to clear out the spawn area as we figured it would be instant death if we opened one of the doors and Weiss would spawn (which was the correct assumption). Though with threat level 6 and agenda cards, it was an impossible task and we decided to open one of the doors anyways. With elite trandoshans and royal guards spawning behind us and Weiss in the front, things went downhill fast.

We didn’t complain about the mission as we all agreed it was the journey leading up to the finale that hurt us the most: lack of bonus XP for winning missions, very little credits to spend during upgrade stages and the Imp player figuring out how to use subversive tactics properly.

*shrugs*

Didn’t ruin the overall campaign though. It’s still hella fun. Looking forward to play this mission again with properly upgraded Heroes.

Thanks. I appreciate the report. Glad you had fun.

I think the Rebels I play with were expecting it to be hard.

But then they took down the first Weiss and a Vader I sprung on them in very short order so their hopes rose (which might have been part of the problem). But in the end it was overwhelming.

I think they were looking at some solid tactics and honestly much better rolls than me and thought they were following the formula to victory.

I think they got to the clearing a round too late and too wounded. And they never moved the AT-ST. I think that's key to move to the clearing quick and have the AT-ST provide a round or two of cover behind you.

Still they were looking at overwhelming odds. I think it would be better if Weiss #2 either didn't get the +10 health or only activated as a normal card (once per round).

Rebels won the finale in my first campaign. Some good rolls and good use of rebel troopers saw them through the initial bloodbath, then the at-at blocked the corridor while they rushed to the clearing. The door held half the hero's back but not for long, Weiss put up a strong fight and almost won the game single handed. If the rebels hadn't put him down that turn he probably would have won. Very close game and very enjoyable.

Thanks mulletcheese. That's some hope. Maybe having the troopers helped. I can't remember how the scenario rules were but the troopers might have given your Rebels another activation with the AT-ST, which might have helped. My guys didn't ever get allies.

I'm pretty sure I was one of the players in this group. We opened the door on round 1 with our 2nd activation. We defeated Weiss #1 on round 1 with our 4th activation. The Imp was able to bring in Vader at the end of round 2. We were moving to the clearing and only chose to hesitate 1 round to kill Vader off quickly and did so in round #3. These actions were great accomplishments and denied the Imperial a chance to use 2 beefy figures to trouble us. We also rolled 3 dodges in our first 4 white defense die rolls. our 4th activation on turn five set off the last stage and Weiss #2 got 4 actions along with the elite E-web, and elite Trandoshans. the other imp figs were trapped in the beginning where we couldn't get to them. The next turn the Imp deployed 2 new groups giving him 7 activations after which Weiss #2 would get an action. We were barely able to damage him and he had 27 health. He also withdrew Jyn by over whelming her with the EE-Web and EDoshans.

I think that we should have concentrated earlier in the campaign on getting health boosting aids like armor and certain rewards to help us weather the growing threat storm, but we lost almost every mission (Which is why we never got allies), and there were a lot of good players involved. There were 2 things we did that felt wrong to me. One got a hero wounded and one gave Weiss #2 4 unopposed actions and the EEWeb and EDoshs a free turn, but that was unforeseeable and so many other missions before required that we run head long in to battle to have even the slimmest chance to win. So we had the advantage of having 2 heroes with 3-die weapons and the other 2 with abilities to get focused to get their high damage weapons to 3-die attacks, opening the door early, killing Weiss #1 quick & early, killing Vader quick & early, good die rolls, The Imperial Player also never used the Protector ability for any of the 4 Imperial Guards that existed from rounds 1-5. All that and we were completely obliterated because we made 2 mistakes. I'm curious about and feel like if we have all 4 of our heroes unwounded and in the clearing when the plan popped. we still would have gotten smashed.

I play with a different group as the Imperial player and have only lost once and that is because one hero managed to survive and storm trooper Platoon attack with 1 health remaining. There have been a couple of missions that I told the heroes after the fact what would have probably helped them. There have been just as many that I don't think they stood a chance in. In Loose Cannon I defeated all 4 heros on turn 3.

DarlJodo - you say we don't have to win, we play for the experience? I love playing all sorts of games and none of them are fun if I don't have the CHANCE to win or lose based on how I play. The "Experience" is bad if there is no chance to win. I don't have to win to enjoy them. I really like playing x-wing and I lose as much as I win there. The way this IA campaign played out makes me feel like I wasted the last 3 Months and the 4+ hours we played Saturday night because I never had a chance to win. I was doomed to face 4-31 Weiss #2 actions plus the activations of the 7 imp groups while each hero only would only get 1-3 activations over the last 3 rounds.

You also say that its wrong to think that we should have a reasonable chance win if we are better gamers in general? Now I disagree that we are better than our Imperial Player, but I think we are all good gamers who understand the nuances of rules and the things various games let you do and not do and how to use all of that to your advantage. Both the Heroes and the Imp in this Campaign are high level players. How can it be said that good gamers shouldn't have a chance to win a game. You are saying something akin to the following.

Better drivers don't have a good chance to win races

Better players don't have a good chance to win sports

Better debaters don't have a good chance to win debates

What does it take to have a chance to win? Its not money, because I've spent more on IA then our Imp. I have also played the game more. I have more dice. I've posted more about this game (I think). I've eaten more Noodles & Company at his house.

A lot of this is an emotional rant for me because I was really disappointed in what all my time and hopeful anticipation led to and I've made a couple of silly comments in here because I have a strange sense of humor. I am serious though when I say that it feels like there is a balance problem to the game. Having been involved on both sides it feels very difficult for the Imperial player to lose. A lot of people acknowledge this as imperial players when they say you can adjust how you play to make it more enjoyable for the rebels. That's wrong. The Imperial player is not a GM. He is a player that should play to win just like any other player does in any other game.

I'm only responding because you called me out - so here it goes!

DarlJodo - you say we don't have to win, we play for the experience? I love playing all sorts of games and none of them are fun if I don't have the CHANCE to win or lose based on how I play. The "Experience" is bad if there is no chance to win. I don't have to win to enjoy them. I really like playing x-wing and I lose as much as I win there. The way this IA campaign played out makes me feel like I wasted the last 3 Months and the 4+ hours we played Saturday night because I never had a chance to win.

Yes - we play for the experience. Not the outcome of the final mission of a campaign. So are you saying that you had absolutely no fun at all in that 3 months that you "wasted" in playing this game? If so I find that hard to believe, because you kept playing.

And there is always a chance in this game. Especially when dice are involved. Others have beat this mission (proven by the posts here) so it is possible.

Listen - I'm sorry you guys lost your final mission. But the final outcome of one mission shouldn't reflect your entire experience of the entire game.

You also say that its wrong to think that we should have a reasonable chance win if we are better gamers in general?

No - I said the thinking of "these players should win because they are better at games in general" should not apply - on the basis that some of the missions in IA are intentionally designed for the Rebels to lose or be incredibly difficult to win. With that in mind - it doesn't matter how much gaming experience you have when playing those missions.

Again - I am truly sorry that you lost your final mission. I'm going to give the same advice as my first post. Play it again. Switch it up. Play with heroes you haven't used before, and use the knowledge you gained by playing through your first campaign to make different choices in the new campaign. Don't let the outcome of one mission determine the entire campaign a "waste of your time".

Fenn you rascal. Looks like Tray needs to rescue your butt again.

Honestly when I read the mission I thought it would be hard for you guys. I thought maybe 75/25 in favor of Imps.

Then after the first few rounds I thought your chances were a lot better.

Then it went out of control more than I anticipated.

Getting to the clearing is never going to be good. Jyn couldn't know. I deployed a lot of cheap stuff just before you got there. Believe it or not it might have been better to get there even earlier before the 2 officers and Nexu. In that sense Vader did his job.

It is winnable I guess. Someone did it. I'd say 1 in 10 chance for the Rebels.

"but we lost almost every mission (Which is why we never got allies)"

Would you expect to have a good chance to win the final mission if you lost nearly every mission in the campaign? I would say that would be pretty unbalanced and make the idea of playing a full campaign nearly worthless.

Well, I just raised the Imperial winning percentage to 85% in this poll https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1331517/how-balanced-each-scenario

The rebels swore to never play this game again.

*siiigh* good times.

If I'd have bothered to vote it would have dropped down to 80%

Due to lack of results this is too swingy to be reliable.

It's also only counting the first time the rebels played each mission, due to a steeper learning curve and hidden information the first play through should favour the imperials. If your party did play again they would stand a much better chance.

In light of this, would ya'll mind commenting on the other thread I started on this subject? https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/185599-desperate-hour-or-last-stand-spoilers/