Dam said:

Rules: "they fight as one during the battle, adding their strength together with just one attack roll to make a single, combined attack score"

That doesn't mean you count them as 1 creature .

Dam said:

But not before the attack rolls

I know.. it's a nasty answer ...

wastedyuthe said:

sadly it does..

you also lose only one life...( not two...

Velhart said:

But you don't Assassinate before the attack roll, Assassinate = your attack roll. When you Assassinate, opposition (see what I did there ?) doesn't even get an attack roll. Dark Cultist gets 1 roll if she kills a multiple Str/Craft enemies IIRC.

Dam said:

you are right my friend, but i wanted to explain him that in other circumstances, the enemies are not a combined enemie yet before the battle begins..

But you are right about the assassin

Velhart said:

I think that depends on how literally you want to take that sentence. "they fight as one during the battle". Yes, you will have them fighting you as if they are one creature, but you clearly have more than one creature in the battle, therefore he can't assassinate them, as he is only allowed to assassinate one. That's how I see it.

I still like the rule (even though it doesn't say so in the rules, and they do actually contradict themselves in places as to who attacks who when a card is dealt) that if you land on a card, then it is you attacking them. Otherwise, if you draw a card, they are attacking you. I am sure that was the rule in the 2nd edition, which isn't made clear in these rules.

wastedyuthe said:

well, i can say nothing about house rules, but i just wanted to say how combined enemies works..

Velhart said:

Yes, I know how they work. But like I said, I am interpreting the rules differently to you. The sentence says "they fight as one during the battle", but that doesn't mean they are one creature. You add their strength together and fight them as if they are one creature, but they are not one creature. Therefore, you can't assassinate them. That's how I read that sentence anyway.

But going back to the other quotes from Dam, isn't it funny how even the rulebook contradicts itself? Saying how enemies attack the character when a card is dealt, then giving an example of the Wizard picking a Giant card, then deciding to attack it!! And then not making it completely clear that the assassin can only assassinate a creature with strength, not craft (as creatures can have either). Even FFG don't know how their game plays!

wastedyuthe said:

I understand, and besides they are still 2 trophy's worth

The dark cultist for example do not gain 2 gifts for a combined enemie, but only one because they fight as 1 creature..

It's stupid, but that's how the game works, and besides, if she could get 2 gifts then she is surely overpowered...

Velhart said:

Yes I see what you mean about the dark cultist. And I would be able to see how that works if I had her miniature in my Reaper pack

I think players ought to agree about that rule, that she only collects 1 gift even with more than one creature in a battle or psychic combat.

Man, these abilities are so messed up!

wastedyuthe said:

Well, if she can win a battle and a psychic combat, then she get's 2 gift's

But she don't get 2 gift's from a combined enemie

Velhart said:

Yep, that makes sense in this case. Like you say, if it were a gift per creature, even with a combined enemy, she would be too powerful. I wish I had her miniature- she looks hot!

Just checked the rule book for the 2nd edition, and it is virtually word for word the same as this one, saying that when you land on a space, and saying "any enemy cards on the space must first be defeated" without actually saying if the character is officially attacking the enemy or vice versa.

Same for the 3rd edition, saying "combat occurs when a character is attacked by an enemy" but never mentions when a character attacks an enemy.

To be honest, the only time this really matters is with the assassins ability and when it comes into play. All they needed to do was make the rule clearer on his card- when he lands on a space with a card on, then he is attacking that creature and may assassinate it. Otherwise, the creature is attacking him and he cannot. Simple.

wastedyuthe said:

She is hot

But i have never draw her.

Although my opponent has play 2 times with her, but he lose with her both....

I wonder how good she is if i play with her..

Velhart said:

Well if I had the chance to fondle her for two hours, then I wouldn't care who won the game

I have just Googled a search on this subject of the Assassin, and came up with a forum thread from the BoardGameGeek website here

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where they all agree HE is attacking when he lands on a space with a card since he is choosing to land there and encounter it, and he gets attacked by creatures when a card is dealt, as per the rules. So, he can only assassinate when landing on a card or other character, the same as before.

Then again, someone emailed FFG and received an official response, saying he can indeed assassinate drawn cards too. Oh well. House rule it is then.

I am so glad the assassin is back for all the controversy about his ability...

Now is the time to play "assassing" by the band Marillion.....

Cheers.

I keep the assassin as he is...

If i use that house rule, that he can only defeat face up cards, then he is lesser powerfull and more boring than ever...

Most enemies are easily defeated, and i see myself already seeking for face-up cards on the board HA ! Not me..

Velhart said:

You say he'll be more boring than ever? My wife will STRONGLY disagree with you. With her assassinating everything she came across (with Strength) in last nights game (where she won the game EASILY) she got thoroughly bored mindlessly killing without needing the roll the die towards the end. It was a case of "pick a card, oh dear a dragon, he's dead, more strength trophy points, another strength counter please, turn over, (yawn)".

If his rule is restricted to face up cards, then he will have to fight as normal when drawing a card, making it more exciting again as he may actually lose for once. As Dam said before, we had enough enemies face up on the board to begin with while we were all busy levelling up for him to clean up and level up before anyone else. That is enough of an ability as it was, without her assassinating cards from the deck too.

wastedyuthe said:

If that is the only thing he can do then, then i take rather a other character who can do more different things..

Do you see my point..?

The Assassin can only do one thing..and if you are restricting that ability...( that will make the Assassin no better)

Anyway, i think i will not play the Assassin anymore, unless i really want to win, but it's also important that you have fun..

I rather play with the Wizard, or Prophetess, or Swashbuckler or Gladiator etc. because they can do more ( IF you are restricting the Assassin..

Do you like it that you can not use the assassin ability(but only by face-up card) while your opponent can use the ability's from other characters every turn? it's a example but is possible..

I know exactly what you mean Velhart. Of course if you restrict him, he will have even less to do, when lots of characters have so many things. But using the rules that he assassinates everything makes it too easy for him and more importantly too boring. Using the face-up-only rule gives him even less to do but makes it more exciting for him. Either way is not ideal, I agree.

There is of course, the option of using the house rule as we have said before, of using the 3rd edition rules (1-3 lose, 4-6 win). That would keep it exciting AND give him plenty to do. But I do like to stick to rules that are written on the cards/board if possible. I don't like to use rules that differ from the text on them.

Saying that, it would be nice if the text on them and the rules was made more clear and consistent (contradictions in the rule book as to who attacks who with a drawn card, assassin ability, the term "creature" for example).

Velhart said:

There are characters who can't use their ability every turn, should they also get a boost because others can? Limiting Assassin is balancing him, dropping him from über-God level to playable. He can still win (any character can), but he won't win 90% of the games he is in, which I feel like RAW Assassin would do (totally random, high percentage figure I just made up ).

The Assassin is fine.

I've seen him in two from the three games played last weekend and he didn't win any of the games. The Troll and Prophetess and Druid are the winners so far.

lucky roller said:

That's a matter of opinion. How easily he wins isn't the only issue. He is also boring to play if you are allowed to assassinate every creature (not craft) you meet. I got bored watching my wife beat every opponent. I could tell she was getting thoroughly bored too.

The Assassin is 2/0 since I bought my game 3 or 4 weeks ago, and we played that he could only assassinate face-up enemies and characters that he lands on. In both games the Assassin was still pretty much unstoppable. I don't want to know how bad he would be if we had played him as written.