Many people have complained that the Assassin is too strong as his opponents never roll a die unless they fight with craft or are characters and attack him.

My idea to weaken him would be to reduce his special ability so that opponents can still roll a die, but only a D3 instead of a D6. That would still help a lot but does not make him overpowered. Now opponents would roll results of 1-3 instead of 1-6, and the average value would be 2 instead of 3.5 (3 or 4).

You can also use the third edition ability from the Assassin and then he is lesser powerful

Yes, but I like this one better. That way the Assassin can almost always use it. I think allowing the ability only against cards already on the board makes him too weak. The Assassin would have to go searching for such cards and cannot just go encountering new ones.

The rule from the 3rd edition is when assassinating, roll the dice- 1-3 lose the battle, 4-6 win. This makes the player only use the skill when they don't stand much of a chance in a normal battle, and would rather risk a 50% chance of losing.

You could also allow him to assassinate as by the rules of the card, but perhaps not allow him to gain the trophy card as punishment.

wastedyuthe said:

But if that would happen, then you don;t want to assassinate at all, and it's the only skill he got, so that would mean he can do nothing...

Maybe only against stronger enemies so he dont lose a life but do not get a trophy.

'This is useless..

Then you can better fight normally and then you still get a trophy..

Yes that may be a little too harsh. After all, looking at the Priest, he can choose to win a Psychic combat automatically but not gain a trophy. However, if he does, he also gains a spell.

Priest can "only" auto-win against Spirits though. From Reaper, Lord of the Pit and Cerberus both have Craft, but are "Enemy Monster" keyworded, Dungeon has at least Dark Elf which has Craft, but also worded "Monster" instead of Spirit IIRC. And he can only get a Spell if not already at max capacity allowed by his Craft.

So Dam, what do you think about him not earning a trophy if he assassinates? It certainly would make you think twice about assassinating your enemy and add a bit of strategy, right?

wastedyuthe said:

I prefer the way he was in the "olden days" (which is how we play him). Can only Assassinate when he lands on something already there (character or creature), but can take trophies. If you're the Assassin in a game where the other chars are Str 2 starters, there tends to be a lot of monsters on the board to try and land on and stab. Not to mention free stabs at characters when you land on them (free in the sense that their are auto-success). Let them draw Str monsters, you pick trophies.

Dam said:

Then you can better use your spells against your opponent or for yourself before you reach max capacity...

Use the full power of the priest

Off course, it is possible that you get stuck with spells that you can't use...( like counter spell) then he has a problem...

But he can add 2 s[ells more if he has 6 craft...

And there are also adventure cards that you lose your spells...

Velhart said:

Indeed. Priest (or most Craft-based chars) drawing one of those Summon Craft creature to combat have to choose between cycling and trophy. Troll getting to 3 Craft and then drawing Summon Str 3 is also "fun", especially if said Troll has Wand.

Dam said:

Why must a priest choose between cycling and trophy?

He can do both at the same time

With the summons, you can earn trophy's too..

Velhart said:

That's only IF your Summon Spell can beat whatever your up against. Craft 3 vs Craft 4+ and things get iffy to say the least.

Dam said:

Yeah, oke but you have nothing to lose right?

If the enemie is stronger, then you use it so you don't lose a life, and if you can beat it, then you get the trophy and you have lost finally that spell card..

Velhart said:

Yeah, oke but you have nothing to lose right?

If the enemie is stronger, then you use it so you don't lose a life, and if you can beat it, then you get the trophy and you have lost finally that spell card..

Well, I would say you lost/wasted your turn. If your turn consisted of moving and getting rid of 1 Spell, that's not very productive IMO.

Dam said:

Velhart said:

Yeah, oke but you have nothing to lose right?

If the enemie is stronger, then you use it so you don't lose a life, and if you can beat it, then you get the trophy and you have lost finally that spell card..

Well, I would say you lost/wasted your turn. If your turn consisted of moving and getting rid of 1 Spell, that's not very productive IMO.

Yeah, but you must accept the card that you draw..( you can do nothing about that)

So i rather use that spell than losing 1 life, and i can take a new spell again if i have the wand etc..

Velhart said:

Priest with Wand? That's not gonna last for long ! Everyone should be gunning for him, as he is about the easiest pickings in the game.

Velhart said:

I see now, that we talk about 2 different things.

I see your reason now. He must choose indeed if he want to use his cross skill to get a spell or use the spell so that he can gain another (IF he has the wand...

I was also talking about the summon spells itself (if prophetess or wizard use those spells and if you want to get rid of that..)

If the priest has no wand, then i think it is oke, if the priest use the summon spells so that he lose no live or get a trophy for it. At least he has room for more spells then..

Despite having been outvoted on the issue on these forums, we still play a very balanced Assassin reading the rules as we believe they were written.

When you draw an Enemy card, it is attacking you . You are not attacking it. Ergo, no assassinations on monsters battled as you draw them. Instant balance, and that's exactly what it indicates on the card. I'm still surprised people are looking for other mechanisms to balance what seems to have been a pretty obvious misinterpretation to begin with. As for all the other assassinations (werewolf, etc.), these are very minor issues comparitively from a balance perspective and the resultant ruling is essentially balance-irrelevant.

librarycharlie said:

Oh my, you are absolutely correct!! Thank you for pointing that out!

Rules state (page 7) "Enemy - Animal, Dragon, or Monster. These enemies attack any character encountering them by battling the character ."

Assassin ability: "You may assassinate when you attack a character or creature"

I have just played my first game of the 4th edition (arrived yesterday) with my wife as the assassin, with her assassinating every monster she met, and she won the game easily. We shall have to play properly next time, with her only being able to assassinate monsters/characters she attacks by landing on their space. Thanks again.

librarycharlie said:

Attack just isn't any keyword as just, it's an umbrella term to cover both battles and psychic combats.

"Attacks are split into two types: battles and psychic combats.
A battle occurs when a character is attacked by a creature
whose Strength is given..." (p. 10)

Only limitation on the card is specifically that he can't Assassinate when another char attacks him. Rules don't even give an example of character attacking a creature.

EDIT: actually, they do:

"During the Wizard’s turn, he lands on the Fields and draws an
Adventure Card, a Strength 6 Giant. The Wizard could
choose to evade the Giant by casting his Invisibility
Spell but he decides to attack the Giant instead." (p. 11)

Wizard draws an Adventure card AND attacks the Giant.

"Battles occur when:
1. A character encounters an Enemy – a Monster, Dragon,
Animal, or any creature whose Strength is given;" (p. 10)

Even further:

"A “creature” is any encounter (other than
a character) that attacks with Strength or
Craft." (p. 10)

If all creatures always attack, Assassin can never use his ability, unless he lands on another char, never against a creature, that is, if one goes by your interpretation, since there is no distinction made between just drawn and already face up cards, character is always the one attacked.

Yes, there is that, Dam. I am trying to find somewhere in the rules that state if you land on a card, you are attacking them. But I can't find it. And that's odd how his ability mentions 'creatures' when creatures can also be using craft according to the rules.

Wasn't there something in the 2nd edition rules that you were the one attacking if you landed on a monster card?

But John goodenough said something about that there is no difference between attacking enemies and enemies that attack you...

You can always use a house rule...

Actually, i thought the same as you... but it don't work...

The problem is that the assassin ability get stuck if he get a enemie that lays on that space + a enemie that he drew on that space that are combining they strength together...

Velhart said:

Well thats another thing- how can the assassin assassinate more than one creature anyway? It's not very realistic. We had the rule in our game tonight, that he can only assassinate if there is one creature.

Going back to his ability- "when you attack a character or creature" meaning only one.

When there are multiple Str or Craft Creatures, they count as 1 IIRC.