I've seen a lot of new players recently with lists that are very diverse in ships and abilities and i think this is the reason a lot of new players dont get to grips with the game as quickly.

I always advocate that until you're *really* familiar with a ship, EPT or talent that its far better to take a list where the ships are largely the same.

For example, two royal guard TIEs with PTL and shield upgrades led by Soontir fell with PTL

I know it sounds obvious but knowing that *every* ship can pull the same manouvre or has largely the same talents stops you putting yourself in a position where your while battle plan falls down because you've moved the A wing that DOESN'T have PTL into a position where it really needs to boost AND evade this turn (thinking it was the other one)... you have to choose one and either end up getting hit by shots you could have avoided or not in a poisiton to fire at what you wanted to.

Its very tempting when you start playing to want to field a bit of everything but i've lost count of the amount of times i've seen a player go 'arggh... i've just realised that ship that got destroyed could have passed the damage on with 'draw their fire'' etc.

I think the crux of the advice is dont try too much too soon.

Even though i've been playing for a good while now i still stick to this theory

Most my 'flights' are of the same ship and never more than three different types as i helps me keep track of what i can and cant do, makes my turn play faster and helps me anticipate exactly where i can go.

When i include different unique pilots or abilities it really slows my game down as i really try and make sure i scan each pilots card and upgrades before making my move or chosing an action as i've learn the hard way that rushing makes me forget something critical i can do.

A second part of this advice, and this is really for the newer player is to built a list around one tactic or element of the game. So your interceptor list is about excelling in manouvre, your ion cannon Y wing list is about controlling the enemies manouvre.

If you make your list excell at one thing then you WILL come unstuck if you get an opponent who is unphased by this tactic but in the long term you'll really learn to master that game element.

if you dive in with a manouvreale A wing, an ion controlling Y wing and two weak naked Z95s (which you really want to learn to use in swarms) you wont really get your head around that ships strenghts as quickly as you do when your list relies on it.

To many of you on here this is obvious advice but i hope it helps some new players.

I let new players follow the steps of the starter squad. At first start with the academy pilot, then when you understand you become a rookie squadron pilot.

You can add a named pilot or a pilot with an ept or astromech for experimentation.

How would you view a mixed X-wing, Z-95 squadron?

Thet do have the same dial, look different, and have various pilots and upgrades to experiment with synergy.

I think synergy is a thing all in its own and after 'unified' flight i'd urge people to look at 'complimentary/synergy' builds like XXYY with Dutch and Garven or any list where a shuttle or HWK plays a supporting role to cheaper fighters.

My main advice though is not to try and cram too much in too quickly as you just end up forgetting to use half the stuff you paid points for , forgetting pilot abilities and forgetting actions.

I think when you start any game you accept your gonna lose the first few times anyway so experimenting then is fine, but yeah mastering one ship at a time is a good idea most fly well in squads.

But i think a lot of people lose their first few game that they *could* have won because they forget actions and the like

And that's because they got 'option happy' and rather than focussing on having one set of actions they are overwhelmed with options.

I know i did this.

I used to totally over upgrade stuff and forget i had half of it.

I only got any good at this game when i focussed on interceptors for ages which taught me manouvre/arc dodging, the importance of actions and really got me to know the dial.

A year or two into playing and im only just getting good at blocking as a tactic and im doing that by playing TIE and M3a cheap list with low PS as up until now ive concentrated on three and four ship high PS hyper mobile builds

I disagree

Flying multiple of the same ship means that you have the same weaknesses and the same strengths over the multiple ships, so it's easier for an opponent to exploit the weakness and shore up their own weakness against the strengths of those lists.

Although I do agree too many different abilities and upgrade cards can be confusing to keep track of for a new player. But at the same time variation in ships and upgrades allow new players to experience more and hone future lists seeing different synergies and pilot skills in use while forgetting an ability is a teaching moment.

Normally I would think like you do. Maybe have generics to fly in a few games to get the hang of it all. With that said, there is a guy who's quickly gotten up to speed on our regular game night who started as a complete n00b and playing HWKs. He would fly a list with 2 HWKs and Corn Hole. He got pretty good with it pretty fast. With his HWKs actually killing things, we call him Hawk the Slayer.

I agree, the more variety you have in your list, the more defensive weak points you present to the opponent and the less cohesion your list will have as a whole. Having a greater variety of ships gives you a greater variety of angles to attack from, but those attacks will be weaker without numbers behind them and it also gives you a greater number of weak points in your list's defense that the opponent can exploit. It's true that running 4-8 copies of the same ship as a list is not a great idea either as it gives your list a single glaring offensive weakness that you might not be able to overcome (if you meet it), but that doesn't mean the answer is 3+ different ships. Usually you only need 2 different ship types in a list to give you the offensive flexibility you need. It's pretty rare to see a list in the higher levels of competitive play that has more than 2 types of ship in it.

Whenever I build a list with more than 2 ships, I usually take a group of the same ship and then ask myself "what is this ship's weakness even if I run it in multiples, and what can I run in this list that can counter that weakness?" So my lists are usually Part A and Part B, where Part A is the main attraction and does most of the work, while Part B is there to help out and counter anything that hard counters Part A, like a bodyguard.

I am always very happy when I see a "grab-bag" list in front of me where there are 3+ ships that are all different. I can figure out their weak point before the game even begins by roughly estimating which ship is a combination of most threatening and easiest to kill, and set up the game to target that ship first to cripple their offense in the shortest amount of time. People who play lists like these would have to do the same thing in every match for their own list and center their game around protecting that weak point, which I've noticed they rarely do.

I think it can be okay for new players to play a grab-bag list a couple of times just to quickly get an idea of which ships they like or don't like, but for competitive lists, too many different ships in a list is more of a liability than an asset. As they say, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

I've seen a lot of new players recently with lists that are very diverse in ships and abilities and i think this is the reason a lot of new players dont get to grips with the game as quickly.

I always advocate that until you're *really* familiar with a ship, EPT or talent that its far better to take a list where the ships are largely the same.

For example, two royal guard TIEs with PTL and shield upgrades led by Soontir fell with PTL

I know it sounds obvious but knowing that *every* ship can pull the same manouvre or has largely the same talents stops you putting yourself in a position where your while battle plan falls down because you've moved the A wing that DOESN'T have PTL into a position where it really needs to boost AND evade this turn (thinking it was the other one)... you have to choose one and either end up getting hit by shots you could have avoided or not in a poisiton to fire at what you wanted to.

Honestly I would start with naked generics. Throwing things like PTL and the Baron are just going to confuse the heck out of them.

I can just imagine the misunderstandings that could arise in future games, "Wait I thought everyone got two actions and PTL just let them get a focus token." Or, "I use both of my actions to get focus tokens" because Fel ended up with two all the time.

The three interceptor build you listed is not for novices. I've found new/younger players tend toward jousting and don't give a ton of thought to repositioning nor action efficiency. IMO its better to have them start with Academies and Rookies. You can move on once they have movement, actions on the dials, and combat under their belts.

Depending on how many points you are playing at the 'unified flight theory' can run into big problems when flying the same ship means getting the same ship over and over again. If someone is flying the extras in you massive collection that is one thing but if the newbie is going to fly six TIE Fighters that is quite an investment in a single ship type. When purchase advice is often 'at least one of everything' it makes a lot more sense to fly different ships.

When purchase advice is often 'at least one of everything' it makes a lot more sense to fly different ships.

Which calls into question whether the "buy one of everything" is actually sound purchase advice for new players.

When purchase advice is often 'at least one of everything' it makes a lot more sense to fly different ships.

Which calls into question whether the "buy one of everything" is actually sound purchase advice for new players.

For a new player buying a few different ships to get the feet wet is better advice. Where that "buy on of everything" comes in is once the new player takes the leap into the game at which time it becomes sound advice.

I agree with most of what was said. New players should play naked ships to get a feel for the game. I don't think they should run a squad of the same ships, though. They need to get a feel for maneuvering different dials.

On the other hand, they need to play the ships they want. I had a friend who wanted to check out the game just to fly the HWK, his favorite ship. After his first game he said "that ship really sucks". But he loves the game in general.

I think a few people have missed my point a bit.

Im not saying when you pick up the game you should start of playing an elite interceptor list. clearly the best ay to learn is with the early scenarios and TIEs and Xs but I'm on about new players experimenting with building lists.

Im not saying go to a tournament with 4 x wings

Im saying when you're learning the *subtleties* of the game that playing a few games where you can really focus on what one ship type or upgrade can do, even though as ive said it *will* have an achilles heel, is a good idea.

As others have said, i think a 'grab bag, one of everything' list is a great way to actually get frustrated with the game as you forget more than you remember, and as others have said you provide easy targets... if everything is moving on different dials its hard to provide mutual support, to keep people in 'range 1' of each other to benefit from an ability and more importantly its hard to concentrate fire if everyone is whizzing around at different speeds and unable to make the same turns/banks/Ks

I would suggest to play 4 A-Wings with title against 5 Tie Fighters instead of X-Wings vs. Tie Fighters for real Beginners.

It's a fairer fight because even for absolute beginners Tie Fighters wipe the floor with X-Wings just after the absolute basics have been understood. When i started playing with a friend with 2 starter boxes it felt horribly painful to play the Rebels after just a few games. I would nearly have stopped at the very beginning because i just thought the game was horribly flawed. The evade action on Ties and no barrel roll while being horribly outnumbered just felt totally unbalanced against the Rebels. This was really frustating me with the Game back then.

But a while ago i tried to introduce someone to the game with A-Wings vs Ties. I did it because it's a total wet noodle fight, and teaches you both BR and boost, both ships have every action except stealth taken together but are still different enough between themselves, have the same PS, and most importantly it's very forgiving to play them against each other. Getting a kill is exceptionally hard in this matchup and so you have enough time to test everything out.

That being said i would absolutely suggest that new players buy one of everything (at least of the faction they choose and if they can afford it) after such an introduction game if they are willing to pick the game up for real. This allows them to test every ship out unless they can borrow from a friend, and gives them access to upgrade cards they will need a bit later. Like that they will play a few games and then find their favorite ships and quite automatically buy a few more copies of it.

I am not a big fan of the OP's suggestion. After you have been introduced to the game you will get confronted with better opponents in the first time, and you will lose a lot anyway. But that will also teach you how to maneuver and not to forget upgrades and actions. I find this lesson very important to be learned. I do not think that you learn the game faster just because you play one ship type only. Anyway your opponent will have other ship types and sooner or later you will need to learn what they can do! I say better you make the effort sooner than later with your own ships. Optimizing lists to 1-2 ship types comes a bit later only when you have seen most ships and upgrades. So i see ko need to dunb down your lists artificially imho

I can see your point about using A wings for beginners but i've found that those games go on for ages and can be actually a bit dull.

But you're right that bare TIEs out class bare Xwings. I usually give the beginners i show a name character on each side , usually luke and vader suppored by stock generics. But as i've said im not on about total beginners. Im on about people who are new enough to the game to be finding this forum and wondering what to field. Not people who just bought the box set from their local store.

Everything else you said i clearly disagree with

Ya I see where your coming from but I will also have to respectfully disagree and agree with some others here. If they lose because they forgot an specific card on a ship then that's the best way to learn imo. Many people learn by mistakes so if you make that mistake you sure won't forget next time and if you do and seem to keep having trouble remembering then I would suggest a unified squad. For players just starting out I think variety is actually a good thing however preferably try it with friends first if you can before taking it brand new into a tourney. By flying it a few times ahead of time you tend to iron out those forgot actions mistakes. Secondly agreeing with other posts is building with variety keeps you adaptable and able to handle many different lists. If your focusing on just one tactic then you will prolly run into a lot of counters to that. I have found choosing 2 tactics is a good balance. More than 2 and it seems good but usually is quite difficult to implement.

If we're talking about brand new players that don't even know the rules, then you should be using generics and maybe a couple of upgrades and maybe one elite pilot per side. Players that are still learning the rules don't need the extra mental burden of remembering a bunch of different upgrades and Pilot skills.

I thought this was about players that have a pretty firm understanding of the rules but are still learning the strategy of the game, IE players that have been playing for a couple of weeks to a couple of months.

That is exactly who my advice is aimed at.

And im not saying only play with the same ship all the time.

Im saying playing a 4 gold squadron with ion turrets list several times really lets you get to grips with the concept of 'control', 'limited dials', 'low PS' and generally playing in that style much better than having one Y wing a B wing and an X wing in a list would do.

I've seen learners from the Imperial side, pick up the basics very quickly by using 3 Interceptors builds. It's a relatively cheap purchase to get into the game, after the base set. I'd agree with statement that just having that few mechanics to worry about for their squad to work certainly helped them learn maneuvering, arc dodging and PTL.

I haven't seen the same sort of "go to" list from the Rebel side.

I can see your point about using A wings for beginners but i've found that those games go on for ages and can be actually a bit dull.

But you're right that bare TIEs out class bare Xwings. I usually give the beginners i show a name character on each side , usually luke and vader suppored by stock generics. But as i've said im not on about total beginners. Im on about people who are new enough to the game to be finding this forum and wondering what to field. Not people who just bought the box set from their local store.

Everything else you said i clearly disagree with

Okay, but if they find the forum and are a bit competitive, they will probably start netlisting anyway, so they will not wonder a long time what they should play, no?

I disagree. Similarly though, I think the single best way to learn the game fast is to fly the same list multiple times.

Flying a list of all interceptors is good to get a feel for their dial, but probably isn't that effective. In fact, a list of all flankers quickly becomes a list of no flankers once your opponent realized there's no meat and potatoes to draw them in, around which an Interceptor can flank.

Soontir plus a mini swarm is only two distinct dials and the list has the advantage of being workable. With this list, the new player gets to become comfortable with few dials but most importantly, gets to become comfortable with basic list dynamics like hammer and anvil.

But, the temptation to throw everything out and try a new interesting list must be tempered. A given list has all kinds of different looks, and can be totally changed with different ship/asteroid placement, different flying techniques and of course the result of dice rolling can drastically change a game.

Pick a simple list that does work, with a basic design element such as swarm, jointer, flanker+ miniswarm, turret+miniswarm/flanker/jouster. Then stick with that list for a whole bunch of games. Try to see multiple sides of it, experiment with different setups and executions.

Finally, a great way to increase this knowledge is to play two games back to back with an opponent and switch squads for the second game. This gives you both sides of the coin. After the first game, focus on anticipating what your opponent can and must do based on the strengths and the weaknesses of the ships/list you just used.

Broad generalisation.

I found the forum, i dont play tournaments.

Every so often a thread comes up that shows that actually a significant proportion of the people on this forum just play games with friends and families and don't

This games got a broad chruch of fans. Some people just play with the same two pals, others like me have a large playing circle but no interest in 'organised play', some people are only interested in top end competitions.

I still maintain that playing a list with a core ship and a core speciality is a much better way to master elements of the game than filling yourself with a list with five different ships and twenty possile actions

New player here.

I've gotten to play on about 4 separate days so far, for a total of about 7 games. I've had a really friendly group that's taught me the basics, and gave/gives advice on list building.

The problem for someone like me, coming into the game at this point, with the unified flight theory is simply this: cost. Sure -- a list will probably work better and be more 'viable' if I have (as a quick example) 4x A-wings, but that means buying 4 A-Wings, plus other expansions to get the useful equipment to make the A-Wings 'all that they can be', without even knowing if they're gonna fit my play style. Hell - I'd *love* to be able to play with just my HWK and 3x X-Wings, but having to get the Rebel Transport, just to get some of the astromechs and such? I can't afford to drop that much money while starting the game, especially since each new wave threatens to 'undo' the viability of the type of ship I went all-in on.

So basically: Yeah, the OP has a point insofar as a unified list probably *is* easier to learn with, and would be more effective. But as someone who hasn't been playing this since it released, and hasn't been able to space my purchases out for that entire time, starting *now* and trying to figure out what's gonna fit my play style, what blisters/boxes I need to get the upgrades I need for the ships I want to be viable...?

Bleah. Love the game, love the ships, but getting really frustrated with it all the same. (Hell - at this point, I just wish FFG would release a deck you could buy with all the upgrade/gear/driods/etc cards released to date, and just leave the pilots unique to the blisters/boxes)