Hi everyone,

at this moment I'm in a conflict with a friend of what you can or can't do after a battle action.

Rules (english rules as french rules) are a bit blur about that.

My reference is the rules book in english found at: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/descentrules.pdf

Now what I found:

Page 8: Step 3 Take an action

B. Battle
A hero that battles may make up to 2 attacks during his turn, but cannot move .

Page 18: Spending fatigue for movement:

At any time during a hero’s turn, he may spend one fatigue to gain one movement point, even if he is currently taking the battle action. This may be done as often as the hero desires. Movement points gained in this manner are spent just like normal movement points.

What I can understand with theses statements:

Hero choose the battle action. Battle action is finished, and then Hero decide to spend fatigue(s) to obtain some MP. With these(s) MP(s) you can do all you want but since it's stated within the Battle rule you cannot move. So even if you have MP available you cannot spend them to move your hero.

There is another thing, at start of Hero turn, he receive 1 action point which can be devided in 2 half action points. You can spend your half actions in moving, attacking or making an order. Since the action battle cost the full action point (2 half actions) and if you move (1 half action) after the battle order, you will have 3 half actions in the turn but that is impossible.

And last, for me fatigue is used to extend an action that you are already doing. You choose to move, you spend 1 fatigue to move 1 step further. You attack, you spend 1 fatigue to roll 1 supplementary power dice. If you move, attack and then re move, you can spend 1 fatigue to roll a supplementary power dice for the attack, and spend 1 fatigue to move a step further on your way back.

My friend is disagree with my point of view, and say that you can move after a Battle action. The statements that he uses to defend his idea are in rules stated in the french doc or/and comment made by people on forum.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/427242

Since he is a very good friend and don't want to lose him with such a matter withiin the rules, I would like some help on that rule.

Please defend your idea which ever that is.

Thank you.

The explanations of the Orders (including battle) are misleading.

In all cases, 'the move X (2X run) spaces' or 'not move' actually referes to how many movement points you receive when declaring your action. The movement rules specify using movement points for moving from one space to another. Using the badly worded Orders rules for movement (move X spaces instead of gain X movement points) instead of the Movement rules for movement is ... well, silly. Not the reader's fault, just one of many instances of poor rules editing.

When you read the 'orders' rules, you should basically replace them with something along the lines of the following:

When a hero declares an 'XXX order', he receives X movement points, Y attacks and Z order placements.

Battle -> X=0, Y=2, Z=0
Advance -> X= Mv, Y=1, Z=0
Ready -> X=Mv OR Y=1 (not both), Z=1
Run -> X=2xMv, Y=0, Z=0

Additional MP gained through items, fatigue expediture or any other result may still be used to move.

There are numerous examples throught the rules, FAQ and GLOAQ that display this methodology. Sorry that I am in too much of a rush now to quote them.

You may have a good point.

But as it is stated in the rules book page 8, Step3 Take an action:

Hero have 4 possible actions:

- Run -> move + move

- Battle -> attack + attack

- Advance -> move + battle OR battle + move OR move + battle + move

- Ready -> move + order OR battle + order OR order + move OR battle + order

If a hero, choose to move after a battle order, it will be: attack + attack + move or this situation doesnt exist and confirm that you can spend fatigue only to extend an action that you have choose. In that case actions + fatigue will be:

- Run -> (move + move) + MP gain with fatigue

- Battle -> (attack + attack) + power dice gain with fatigue

- Advance -> (move + battle OR battle + move OR move + battle + move) + MP or Power dice gain with fatigue

- Ready -> (move + order OR battle + order OR order + move OR battle + order) + MP or Power dice gain with fatigue

Additional MP gained through items, fatigue expediture or any other result may still be used to move.

This sentence is tricky too. Why ? because if you have an item that give you extra MP you must equip it before taking an action. So if you choose Battle you will not be able to use these extra MP you gain since Battle reduce your MP to 0.

tiyab said:

Remember that a hero gets a free equip phase at the start of his turn so your last point is moot- the hero can equip whatever it is before they decalre the Battle action.

I also think that you are confusing MOVE the action with "move" the word and MOVE ACTION with MOVEMENT ACTION. FFG did a pretty terrible job with explaining how this works but Corbon has the right of it. The action terminology has evolved to where MOVE as an action gives the hero x movement points where x= their speed. Battle is Attack/Attack which does not give the hero any movement points-NOT "reduces movement points to zero". Movement points can still be gained via items or skills, or by spending fatigue.

A hero can always spend a fatigue to gain a movement point which can be spent to move 1 space (this is NOT "take a MOVE ACTION"), drink a potion or any of the other MOVEMENT ACTIONS listed on the chart on p16.

For example: after declaring a Battle action, a melee hero can spend a fatigue to move 1 space to get next a monster, do his first Attack action. If he kills the monster, he can spend another fatigue to move 1 space to get adjacent to another monster and take his 2nd Attack action. If this puts him adjacent to a glyph as well, he can spend a third fatigue to hop to town. Or he could spend that third fatigue to drink a potion.

From page 18 of JITD: Emphasis mine

"Spending Fatigue for Movement
At any time during a hero’s turn, he may spend one
fatigue to gain one movement point, even if he is currently
taking the battle action . This may be done as often
as the hero desires. Movement points gained in this
manner are spent just like normal movement points."

If you still can't wrap your head around the concept, hopefully someone else can chime in.

Oboewan said:

You have a point there and I totally agree on the difference between MOVE and MOVE ACTIONS.

But I still maintain that it is written that you cannot move with a Battle order and there is no concession in the rules about the Battle action.

I'm pretty stubborn and if someone can prove me that cannot move means you can move if you have MP be my guest.

As I see it, you always apply the most restrictive rule last.

From the FAQ (emphasis mine):

Q: How does Grey Ker's ability work? Can I declare a Battle action to activate my Battle Cry power, and then declare an Advance action to activate my Relentless power?
A: Grey Ker may still only declare one action per turn. His ability allows him to change what action he is taking mid-turn (provided that the new action is legal), but changing his action is not the same as declaring a new one. For example, Grey Ker could declare a Battle action (potentially triggering Battle Cry or a similar skill), spend some fatigue to move , make an attack roll, and then change to an Advance action to move his speed or to a Ready action to place an order token.

Up the point in the example that I bolded, Grey Ker still has a Battle action declared and he spent fatigue to move. He doesn't change it to an Advance until after he makes and attack. According to you, he would not have been able to move after declaring that Battle action but an official example from the designers contradicts this view point.

As for always applying the most restrictive rule last, this doesn't work in Descent very well since Descent is a collection of restrictive base rules and then a bunch of exceptions. For example, the restrictive base rule of when Battling you receive no movement points followed by the exception that you can spend fatigue to gain a movement point when Battling. If you apply the most restrictive rule last, you would never be able to gain movement points with fatigue when declaring a Battle action.

My printed version of the rulebook does not say that you "cannot move" when you take a battle action. It says that the hero "receives zero movement points from the action." (Meaning that you can still receive movement points from other sources.)

The "cannot move" statement was an error in an old version of the rulebook that has since been officially corrected. The online PDF version of the rules has never been updated and is actually older than all printings of the game, as far as I can tell. It also contains a mention to a "slime" obstacle that never made it into the final game, among other errors.

There are also official gameplay examples that involve heroes performing battle actions and also spending fatigue to move, though I am currently unable to find any of them after the most recent reorganization of the Descent info pages.

Regardless, there is no reasonable doubt that the designers intended that you can spend fatigue to move even while performing a battle action.

Antistone said:

+1, I forgot to check my physical rulebook. No wonder I couldn't find that in the pdf.

Thanks all for the explanation, my only source of a rules book in english was the one on this site.

It was a mistake and now it's clear.