Here's a thought as far as the new edition goes. I was recently at a local game club playing some 40k. The place was pretty packed with about six warhammer games going on plus some obscure card/miniature games in the back. I was wondering to myself why no one was playing an RPG. Then it occured to me that nobody knew eachother very well, and nobody was ready for that kind of commitment.

With a paperless system like the new edition, a group of casual gamers could create characters in a minute or two (by drawing cards at random and filling up a character portfolio) and then get right down to playing.

This could be good for the hobby. One of the biggest problems with rpg's is that its very difficult to find anyone to play with. Perhaps this new system will make the game a bit more convenient to pick up and play.

Thoughts?

My thoughts exactly. Well said. If FFG is indeed gunning for new blood, I think they've taken a step in the right direction as far as making it easier to pick up and play. It is hard to get gamers for an RPG. I think their intentional marketing of the coreset to 1 GM and 3 players will also make it more appealing for folks to pick up and try. I think a lot of folks have in mind that an RPG is something that a big group, 6-8, sit around to enjoy. Even D&D, with its focus on the four player party can sometimes be hard to fill.

So yes Nullius, I share this opinion with you. Hopefully these little things that FFG is trying will work towards helping more folks get in...

I doubt it to be honest. Even second ed offered fast character creation and other systems offer much the same. While RPGs can do the fast casual gaming for one offs you tend to loose a chunk of the strengths of an RPG when played that way.

Sure the added aids give the game more visuals and likely more appeal to be played in a gaming store, but I think they still tend to say boardgame to players at first glance rather than RPG.

RPG players will likely ignore it unless they know about the system, board gamers may be curious enough to ask about it and wargammers will likely pick the lack of miniatures and ignore it too.

Loswaith said:

And that's not accidental I'd wager. FFG will be hoping to pull in boardgamers (of which they have a sizable following) with the new "interface" of this RPG. It may work. And then of the RPGers that pass it up specifically because it "looks like a boardgame", they'll hold their decision until the verdict is out on how the game plays. If FFG has indeed created a fun and engaging roleplaying system, then the holdouts will buy in as word spreads. If they haven't created that, the holdouts will move on, as would be expected.

The problem with roleplaying games is that the GM has to do a lot of prep and planning to create a good scenario. Fast, Unplanned, Casual games run by people with little experience tend to go badly, not all the time but certainly much of it. A game you don't enjoy is a game you don't play again.

Foolishboy said:

My only quibble with your statement is that its not true for all RPGs. I think it may remain true for WFRP as a relatively traditional RPG, but there's a great many RPGs out there with a different play philosophy. GMs of those games don't typically spend much time at all in preparation.

That aside, I don't anticipate WFRP v3 being an unplanned game or even see it being pitched as such. It retains a well defined GM player and I'm sure the rules will outline that player's responsibilities, which will include, at the minimum, reading through a published adventure to run for the group. For example, the one included with the coreset. What may make it more approachable is the way pertinent information appears to be presented through cards that are always present for the players. Its a great burden for even experienced GMs to have to constantly help players with rules and page flipping. This of course is even more problamatic for new GMs. Hopefully the new presentation style of information for players will make it easier for casual players of the game.

To be honest, I've always thought games such as FFG's own Descent already covered the market of "casual roleplaying." I just can't see a true RPG that runs fast being a substitute for miniature games such as this, at least not in they eyes of the casual consumer. To me, a game that introduces casual consumers to traditional roleplaying needs to be a cheap product with easy rules and little to no fuss.

From what little I've seen of 3rd edition WFRP, it doesn't seem to be that kind of game. It looks to be the RPG equivalent of the typical board games FFG produces. And before anyone accuses me otherwise, I'm not trying to **** the new edition as a boardgame, I'm simply comparing it component and price wise to the boardgames FFG produces.

The problem is that FFG doesn't normally make casual boardgames. Most of their products are for consumers who've graduated from simpler rules and are ready for something a little meatier. For roleplaying to appeal to casual audiences, someone needs to make the RPG equivalent of Settlers of Catan or Carcassonne and find a way to mass market it. A task easier said than done.

I suspect there may be some truth in what you say, but even an experienced group like mine took two sessions to play the introductory scenario, in the 2nd edition rule book. Even if character creation only takes a couple of minutes, it will be nigh on impossible to ROLEPLAY, even the short scenaios in Pundered Vaults, or in the scenario competitions. It would also mean that all the early releases would have to be played in 2-3 hours game time. I do not see how you could keep existing roleplayers and get new ones ( from boardgamers or wargamers), if there is very little time for roleplaying. Simply those wanting a quick result on a weekday night, and existing, campaign, RPGers are going to be almost impossible to combine together into one product, unless there will be two entirely different sets of adventures, one for each group.

I wouldn't expect the experience to be any different than it ever has been. Its just the ease of maintaining and interpreting rules information that might help folks along. I would still expect a new group to get together for a few separate sessions of 2-4 hours a piece to experience "The Adventure". I'm sure FFG does as well, thus the player folios or whatever, for storing your character sheet and cards.

It sounds like what we do with MAPTOOL games. We get some players and play a game. Online virtual tabletops really are that simple. If you don't like a player, you boot them. It's that simple.

Hopefully though, the new game will work well with Maptool

jh