Simple questions: Are there any roleplayers from non-Warhammer systems interested in WFRPv3? If so what attracts you to WFRPv3?

By a roleplayer I mean someone who would play a roleplaying game on a regular basis.

By non-Warhammer systems I mean a roleplaying system that is not set in either the Warhammer World or the Warhammer 40k Universe.

For example are there any D&D4e fans who disliked the look of WFRPv1 and v2, but would now like to try WFRPv3?

The reason for this question is that I would like to know how well received WFRPv3 has been by roleplayers in general.

Not completely understanding your question. My group and I are primarlily HackMaster fans and players so would we count as non-Warhammer system types even though we've been playing 1 and 2e WFRP on and off for many years?

lordmalachdrim said:

I'm assuming he means people who haven't played WFRP 1 or 2. I think you'd be better off posting your question on rpg.net or one of the other general RRPG forums, the vast majority of the posters here will have at least some interest in Warhammer, if not Warhammer Roleplay.

Although I have played the original WFRP, I have not played 2nd edition at all, and have much more experience with other systems such as D&D, Earthdawn, Shadowrun, GURPS, Palladium etc., as well as having played Warhammer Fantasy Battles for quite a while (at least 15 years). I'm pretty intrigued by 3rd edition - I actually quite like a lot of the 'board game'-esque elements - I think the more accessible the information is and the clearer the rules and mechanics are, the more time and effort people can spend on actually role-playing.

I have many years of D&D experience and most recently have fallen in love with The Burning Wheel. We dont' play much of anything any more though. And yes I'm very interested in WFRP v3. What interests me?

I've alwasy held a latent interest in the WFRP setting, for its proclaimed "grim and gritty" demeanor. Whatever that may mean to you.

So far, I love what FFG seems to have done with streamlining the information at the table for players to reduce page flipping and book sharing. Having all the information on cards for reference sounds super sweet to me. In every game I've played in over the past couple decades I'm constantly having to find something in the book for a player at the table or explain certain rules over and over again. Cards hopefully equals efficiency at the table.

If I were to get back into roleplaying again, I have two potential groups at my disposal and both of those are 3 players. Both groups would also include one player that has never played an RPG. I anticipate the aids being very beneficial to them. And I won't lie, actually hearing that the coreset is marketed specifically towards 3 players and a GM, well, it sounds like they're catering to me! Its hard to get big groups these days.

The new dice mechanic sounds great so far. I enjoy dice pools and I like the notion that they've tied so much information into a die roll. Lots of potential moment to moment twists wrapped up there. I have high hopes for this mechanic.

I like being able to come in on the ground floor of WFRP and not having to address the existing library of source material for the system. New system, newly presented material. I get to "grow" with v3 rather than catch up with v2.

That's what appeals to me.

I've never played a Warhammer game of any sort, tabletop or roleplaying game.

I'm not only interested in WFRPv3, I've already pre-ordered it.

I'm interested in this game because the mechanics look innovative. I'm interested in it because it looks like the kind of game that I can use to bring my non-gamer friends into the hobby. The fact that many of the 'rules' are on cards and can be placed before players mean that I have my wife (who has never played an RPG of any sort, ever) interested in giving it a try. The innovative die rolls has my brother-in-law (who won't even consider playing DnD with me - ever) promising to give it try. There's enough here that alludes to other gaming styles - or alludes to ease of use - that I'm ecstatic with the possibilities that my immediate gaming circle might increase by at least 3. Seeing as my immediate gaming circle right now is 4, that's a 75% increase, just because FFG has created a game that looks fun, doesn't look like its rules are too intimidating, and it looks like something that is aimed at making collaborative stories together.

Now having gone through the 3.5e to 4e DnD debacle, I can fully understand that many old-time WFRP fans might be upset with the direction that WFRP is headed. I don't know any of the history of WFRP 2e and how beloved (or not) that game is, nor how big an issue it was when 2e arose from the original game. I know for many of us, this is a fantastic jumping-on point. I could try to track down the 2e books and pay 50% more than cover price on eBay to play the game, OR I can start new and fresh with the brand new game. Throw in the fact that 3e has innovative mechanics that are unlike any of the games I've played before and I'm sold...

Jaysin1414 said:

From where even FFG still list the game as unavailable?

Jaysin1414, donbaloo, Matt in the Hat thank you for your responses.

FFG handling of WFRPv3 has alienated the existing fanbase and it seems that many of them will not buy the game, so I wanted to see if the new game was attracting the interest of new fans who would be willing to switch systems and I wanted to know how many new fans WFRPv3 was attracting. Unfortunately WFRPv3 needs to attract a large number of new and dedicated fans to support it, if it is to survive. Currently this is one of my fears, that by losing the majority of existing fans FFG would struggle to win over enough new fans to keep the game going.

I genuinely hope that it turns out to be a fun and engaging game. I hope FFG manages to present the Warhammer setting as it should be. And I hope that existing WFRP players discover that its a good direction for the game they love. Then we can all be happy together and WFRP's fan base grows! That would be fantastic. Who knows what'll happen.

On the other hand, the fears of WFRP dying because of this change seem overblown to me. The internet is a tricky place because its easy to believe that its representative of what's going on in the real world. All I can say for sure is that its not representative of what's going on in my real world. Here's my anecdote for whatever its worth to the discussion. From what I see, WFRP v2 doesn't exist. I know that it does because of the internet. But I don't see it. I've never seen a game of WFRP being played at any of my local game shops or any of my local conventions. My FLGS has never sold a single WFRP book to my knowledge. It wasn't even present at GenCon this year from what I understand. A lot of small press indie games have more of a present at my local cons than WFRP. And most people in general don't even know what an RPG is. Of those that do that I've met, none know of WFRP.

That's not to say that i don't see RPGs being played. Obviously D&D is everywhere. And I see tons of boardgames being played. If FFG can even remotely bridge part of this gap, then they've grown the fanbase. At least, as far as my anecdote is concerned. In my area, if even one WFRP game gets started then it has grown locally. If v3 completely and utterly fails, it will have the exact same presence as WFRP v1 and v2 and the gaming world as I know it won't even experience a ripple.

Like I said, that's just anecdotal and may mean nothing at all. But when I keep hearing folks saying that they fear v3 will kill WFRP, its obvious that their real world is significantly different than mine. From where I stand I see tons of room for innovation to potentially bring in new gamers. I'm not saying the naysayers are wrong, because I just don't know. But I do know that what I read on the forums is not even remotely representative of what I see in the gaming world around me.

When you get down to it, the old WFRP crowd aren't really FFG's target market. While they certainly would like to sell v3 to older players, they know that it's a tough sell. And not because v3 is so different from v2 - that will intrigue as many older players as it'll put off, maybe moreso than a revised game would have - but because the older players already own v2 and/or v1. Why spend money on a new edition of the game when you already have plenty of material for the old one?

FFG want to sell this game to those players who have few (or no) books for the old eds. In fact, the controversy stirred up by the new game is good for them, because it advertises the game on other forums. A new player probably isn't going to care about how angry a grognard is that the percentile system is gone, 'cause he's never played with it.

Well, I am very much into Warhammer 40K and Dark heresy. But what I can tell you is that I've generally avoided WFRP's first and second editions. Mainly because I didn't like that fantasy setting very much, and that I was bored with fantasy RPG's in general. But WFRP 3rd edition has piqued my interest in the game, despite my general disliking of fantasy settings, mainly because of the strange and unorthodox rules and game mechanics for an RPG.

Now I can't say for sure that I'll like it once I've tried it, but as of now I at least have a wish to try it out, rather than just steering clear of WFRP altogether like I did before.

I think FFG is betting that the new players brought into the fold will balance out (or hopefully supersede) those that refuse to convert. Without seeing market research and talking to fans outside of the forum atmosphere, there's really no way to know for sure.

From an outside perspective, I think FFG is doing a great job of drumming up new interest in the line. Over at RPGNet, you can see that interest, there's lots of comments from folks that think the new ideas are great (and lots of comments about the price -but that's another matter altogether).

I don't own any WFR material, but I'd consider giving this a try. It looks fun, expensive, but fun. I was sceptical at first, but the more I see of the system the more intrigued I become. It looks like the sort of game one might actually see people playing at a local game club. Warhammer fantasy needs brand-name recognition to succeed. It needs to distinguish itself from the countless fantasy rpg settings out there. This might work.

I haven't played an RPG in a few years. The ones I played were DnD and Call of Cthulhu. WFRPv3 caught my attention because I've been kind of curious about the Warhammer universe and as a big fan of FFG I haunt this site frequently. They've done pretty slick jobs on Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader. Their homegrown RPG, Grimm, looks like it would be fun and is certainly original.

I'm interested also because of the explanation of the system that Jay gave at Gencon. It sounds like an RPG where I don't have to dog ear several pages in a book to find the result of a die roll. I like the aggressive/defensive system in the dice, it gives more personality to a game than just "I swung my sword at it." It's an aspect of how much am I going to risk to be successful at this action. It's a nice touch. The custom dice also make it a bit harder to just bit torrent the rule book and play, and I think that's pretty smart.

The card system is a good idea. Saving on the most important aspect of gaming for me- time. More time to play, less doing bookkeeping is always good. They may have stolen some of this from their boardgames, but so what if it works. The most important aspect of an RPG is the storytelling and this system appears to keep that in mind.

If the Ratcatcher's Tale was an indication of the type of storylines that occur in WFRP, then I'm interested.

Foolishboy said:

I'm sure they weren't trying to alienate the fans. I'm sure they wanted fans of v2 to be excited and interested. I think that some around here really had a spaz at the announcement and acted like the basis for their world was coming to an end. It would be sad (and strange) if an RPGer was put off because of a few strange dice. Based on their other products FFG works very hard to make a good product. Hopefully, this game will be great and hopefully some of the players from the old version will at least give it a try.

I'm primarily an Ars Magica player but have been playing Warhammer FRP off and on for years; I remember playing first edition way back when in the school RPG club.

I love the quality of the material put out under the second edition but I have to say this new third edition has me really psyched. For one, there seems to be a genuine attempt to do something new, not just with the game system but the gaming experience. All the comments about "30 dice and 300 cards" that I've read amount to little more than red herrings; an attempt to paint the new direction as a collectable card game (I believe that is/was out there in its own right). It's clearly not that.

For me, this is a great experiment. I think I get the way the dice will work. And if I'm right, I like it. I think I get the way the career and action cards work. And if I'm right, I like it. I think I get how the stances work, and if I'm right I like that too. And you know, for those who don't like the cards but do start playing 3rd edition, I'd put money on someone producing a PDF character sheet with all the gizmos printed on the sheet for you. Bound to happen. Of course it is. And then those groups will happily use 3rd edition rules feeling satisfied that they've done away with the cards. All I can say is, please send them to me. I'll take as many as I can get. I have two groups down here in Eastbourne that are up for trying this new edition. One wants to try by way of seeing the new system, while the other is looking for a longer-term run.

And you know what, if the game system doesn't sing along (though I suspect it will) then I have the freedom to go back to 2nd edition and 1) use the huge number of published books, and 2) adapt new 3rd edition content as it comes out. Sure, it'll be a little extra work to retro-fit it but that's small sacrifice.

But for all the moaning, which frankly has taken moaning to an all-time new level outclassed only by the hand-wringing over D&D4, there is the chance that this edition becomes a very cool game in its own right. I'm looking forward to it.

Foolishboy said:

I'd take that with a pinch of salt, to be honest. I wasn't a great player of D&D3/3.5 but I do like the Eberron setting, not that I got chance to play it that much. But of course I bought the D&D4 box set and a couple of the supplements and then the Eberron player and campaign books despite my misgivings over the D&D4 mindset. And I'm doubtful I'll get much chance to use them in anger.

Now, switch that to WFRP3, a game I have much more chance of actually playing and the equation is pretty simple. What happens if I hate the system? I might drop it entirely, sure. I might be more selective in terms of the content I buy, looking for supplements that I feel would offer more to my 2nd edition game. Or I might just buy everything because I'm a collector and I have a full set of gubbins already. And that's if I'm turned off by the game. if I do, you know, like it, then I'll be there first in line at the games store.

I'm not saying that FFG should take things for granted (do that and the game is literally up), but I don't think we, as players, as consumers, as gamers, should just assume that trepidation over a new direction equates to a blanket cessation of purchases from the old guard.

I play RPG's often, never have i once been intrested in warhammer or any "fantasy" rpg until 3ed.

marklawford said:

Yes, probably. I think the more pressing question is that once existing fans buy the new core set (as I'm likely to do despite my misgivings) will they then go on to buy later supplements? And if the system does have a major turn off compared to 2nd edition, I know I won't...

phobiandarkmoon said:

Once we buy the system, we'll find out whether the game works for us or not.

The emotive language that has so far greeted the new edition is a little disturbing, at least it is for me speaking as someone who is actually coming back to WFRP after a little break. I've been keeping up to date with the game through 2nd edition and was excited about 3rd edition. And then I saw the response. It's a bit embarrasing actually.

It is very easy to naysay ahead of time. If you're wrong you can claim FFG were lucky and just about got it right. And if you're right and the game bombs you get to do a little "I told you so" dance and wait to see what happens next. Personally, I'd rather be optimistic and throw my weight behind the game. There's nothing to suggest that the setting is changing and there's everything to suggest that playability and the play experience is at the heart of the game. Remember, 2nd edition has a stack of problems that we kind of disregard in play, and would be quite difficult to address head-on.

And remember, we're talking about the core set and one supplement available at launch. It isn't going to be a complete system/setting all in one go. There will be content, and content that some want earlier rather than later, that will be threaded through a number of product releases. After all you had to wait a few years from the launch of 2nd edition (if memory serves) before you had a pamphleteer advanced career.

I do really hope that the community does calm down a little and take a more optimistic view. If nothing else, it would make me feel better about coming back to a game I've always loved.