We now know the Coreset/box races, but would be nice to know next what careers actually made it to the box? We do have some info already.

40 careers just seem so few, but it very much depends are there going to be how many advanced "levels" or "Tiers". In WFRP2 there was 3 advanced levels/tiers + basic, but now it could be possible that there is only one, max two, advanced levels/tiers now?!

These should be there:

• Agent (basic)
• Agitator (basic)
• Apprentice Wizard? (basic) - I would imagine this one is there, because there is sourcebook for magic in the box.
• Barber-Surgeon (basic)
• Boatman (basic)
• Coachman (basic)
• Commoner (basic)
• Dilettante (basic)
• Envoy (basic)
• Flagellant (advanced?)
• Gambler (basic)
• Giant Slayer (advanced)
• Hunter (basic)
• Initiate (basic) - I would imagine this one is there, because there is sourcebook for religion in the box.
• Mercenary (basic)
• Priest 1-3? (advanced) - Dont know will these still have three advanced careers or fewer.
• Roadwarden (basic)
• Scout (advanced?)
• Smuggler (basic)
• Soldier (basic)
• Thief (basic)
• Thug (basic)
• Troll Slayer (basic)
• Watchman (basic)
• Waywatcher (basic?)
• Witch-Hunter (advanced)
• Wizards 1-3? (advanced) - Dont know will these still have three advanced careers or fewer.
• Zealot (basic)
  

What is left out (for next supplement):

• Dockhand (basic)
• Ratchatcher (basic)
• Shieldbreaker or Ironbreaker (basic?)
• Swordmaster
• Wardancer (basic)

Yes It would be nice to know what careers made into the box.
It would also be nice to know something about character progression and profession changes.

I watched the professions we were given to look at. I think I understand in a way the advances tab on them:

Actions, talents, skills mean how many cards are gained.
Fortune and wounds mean how many fortune points and wounds you gain.
Conservative and recless probably refer to stances.

But I have no idea how progress goes exactly, and how much of the above character is given at a time when progressing by one step.

Also noticed absence of stat upgrades, career exits and entries, equipment, and talent/action names on profession sheet

jackdays said:

I right clicked on one of the pictures and saw that it said "acolyte" but I'm doubting if that's a career or advancement.

IMHO, the career system still has a lot of potential for evolution and I hope they really take advantage of the strengths in that regards.

jh

Updating the lists here...

So things like Knights, Witch Hunters, noblemen etc won't be playable in the coreset? Seems a lot of careers are very atypical for rpg starting rules.

Darthvegeta800 said:

Well, there is still alot of room (40) for Witch-hunter and Knight (which probably are Advanced careers). And I like to believe they would be there. But you never know...

Nobles - Well, hard to say. If you take 40 careers from the WFRP2 corebook (or even better - from the Career Compendium), which ones would you take? Probably careers like Noble, Tradesman, Woodsman, Chargoal-Burner, Lamb-Lighter...etc. are not in that list, which is sad.

I was thinking its possible that the apprentice wizard isn't included anymore and they went straight for journeyman as the entry Wizard. This would be due to alot of fluff in 2ed ed mentions the Apprentice is still under heavy supervision by their masters, sure realms of sorcery mentioned them as being the Highend students with some leniancies, but it may get around that factor with the new system.

However what is and isnt in for the most part realy is a guess, especially where magic is concerned.

You could probably make a noble character by taking one of the other careers and buying extra resources with the Creation Points. Take a suitable career + money = noble.

macd21 said:

Good point. Noble works better as a background than a career.

macd21 said:

Money does not make you noble.

Foolishboy said:

You got that one right, it's pure family, inheritance and being born with a silverspoon up yer ... :-)

jackdays said:

Is this the same thing as a Bright Wizard?

He means "Lamp Lighter" and no, not the same as a bright wizard.

(though a Lamb-Lighter might be quite exciteing!)

NezziR said:

Yes, yes - LAMP LIGHTER it is

NOBLEs: As mentioned --> Money doesnt do Noble. Actually Career covering Noble is best way. Most nobles do tend to be hang-around persons without any true profession.

jackdays said:

I disagree. The 'hang-around persons without any true profession' archetype is just one possible type of noble. I think it has been mentioned somewhere that dilettante may be a career - give a PC dilettante money and you have a noble. Give a student PC money and you have another type of noble (or the son of a rich merchant). A wealthy soldier might be a squire, the child of a nobleman who is in training to be a night.

Alternatively, social class could be something else you buy with creation points.

macd21 said:

Why not just decide if you are noble or not ?

Spending creation points on money and class are bad game design IMO. Both of these can be earned thru play. What that means in concrete terms is that if a player spends points on these at character creation, he will expect the GM to deliver on these in terms of influence, contacts etc... If the GM doesn't do that, the player will feel cheated somewhat.

Now comes the question, how much is enough ? The GM and player probably have different views on how much influence and wealth a certain number of points represent. Also, the player that sees the adventure heading for the deep woods will be dejected since money and friends are absentees in the woods.

In short, having players spend points to obtain these external elements of a character's definition is not good most of the time. It puts pressure on the GM and often causes bad feelings.

If players want to be influencial right from the start, that is out of the "normal" evolution of the game, so should be a case by case situation discussed with the GM. It should fit in the planned storyline.

macd21 said:

What is dilettante? Basicly it is noble-type-of hang-around-fellow. I know some nobles pursuit careers from Clergy, military, academic circles...etc. They do have change to do basicly anything (from becoming a cat-burglar, sea captain to Wizard). But, I would still think most are these hang-around-types not really doing anything.

For WFRP2 rules Noble career is well suited. That is what you are born and raised, but after that you make the decisions. I think for WFRP3 Social Class (bought by the Creation Points) would be nice solution.

The problem with the old noble career was that it was the only career that made you noble. You couldn't be student or a squire, you had to be a rake. It was a good career, but it was too limiting because it was a single career representing an entire social class. It was like just having one social class to represent the very poor instead of having charcoal gatherers, beggars, thugs and all the rest.

Jericho said:

You could make that same argument for anything, e.g: Why not just decide if you have a high Weapon Skill? If you spend points on Weapon Skill, and the adventure is heading for a social situation, that player will be dejected.

I think it's totally fine to use some of you character points on wealth or social class. White Wolf has had a Contacts, Mentors, Allies stats for quite some time now, and they work out fine. Yes, you can gain some of these things through role playing. But for some character ideas, it make sense to start with some of these things.

Every player is going to be good at some things, and bad at other things. If you have a well rounded group, the GM should try to provide a well rounded adventure. If every player creates a combat guy, and that's all they are interested in, nobody is going to have fun if the GM puts them in the middle of a courtly intrigue plot.

NewTroski said:

NewTroski said:

I was trying to make a generalization, which was apparently a poor one.

What I was trying to get at is, there's a lot of different ways an RPG can go, and it's important to find one in which the whole group can have fun.

I, personally, do not like for the game to be one combat encounter after another. I think it gets boring, and if it's just combat I'd rather play some kind of tactical combat game. But I do know of other people that have loads of fun with that style of game. Also, I agree that you shouldn't just do what your character is good at all the time.

Add 'High Elf Swordmaster' to the expansion list.

Jackdays, I have few more additions and clarifications for your list.

The WFRP3 mini-site has a picture of the envoy's career sheet, and it is a basic career.

The product description page specifies a couple more core box careers: "From the resolve of the Witch Hunter and the deadliness of the Dwarf Troll Slayer to the keen eyes of the Wood Elf Waywatcher , or the fiery magic of a Bright Wizard, there are many exciting paths to follow."

So, you can add Witch Hunter to the advanced careers and the elfy to the basics, I think.

"The Role You Play" article does refer to soldier and initiate characters, so they will be there in the core box.

The "New Perils in the Old World" article also mentions a few careers that'll appear in the core: "All manner of adventurers find themselves embroiled in the action, plots, and intrigues woven through the Old World – agitators , apprentice wizards, commoners , dilettantes , soldiers, thugs, zealots , and many more."

Agitator is an awfully specific reference, and to see it mentioned alongside the thug, soldier and apprentice wizard (whom we already know will be present) is a keen indication that commoner, dilettante and zealot are also careers in their own right. So, I'd mark them down as core box basic careers.

"Of Dice and Men" mentions the hunter career. Another basic, there, I'd say.