Hey all,

So who's tried these new, old toys?

I'm finding that the Tempest AC is actually an "even" buy. While it has good jousting value due to the 2 hits + evade action, its also prone to green dice failure (even more so because of no focus). What's more is that i've found the PS2 to have incredibly restricted movement:

HOLY HECK THE DIAL SUCKS.

Really, let's all take a moment of silence for the lame-ness that is the Tie Adv dial. The only redeeming quality is the 1 slight greens. No 2nd k-turn. No hard turns. Ugh.

For Tempests I am now foreseeing using the BR much more and simply hoping they don't go after them. I think that will bring better value.

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I haven't really gotten to try Vader ATC or Maarek ATC in a meaningful match. I just ended up bumping a lot and Maarek got green dice failure syndrome something hard. (All my fault.)

I'm seein Vader as a decently good value buy: But adding more tends to kind of even out. EU is fine, but costly. EPTs are almost not needed with 2 actions. I'm still really thinking Adrenaline Rush to make the K-turn something fierce.

Oh and funny enough, these things fear rocks. FEAR> leads to the dark side.

I could see bringing Debris Clouds if you want Tempests AC.

Predator Vader with ATC is predictably nasty.

The issue I've had with AC Tempests is range control. They want to keep the fight at range 2-3, since Range 1 helps them less than it does everyone else. But it's hard to keep the enemy at arm's length with their quick dial.

ATC is great on Vader and maarek but not so solid on the generics, I think on them accuracy corrector is the better bet you can evade every turn and have a guaranteed two hits.

Huh? The dial is almost identical to an X-wing and nobody has ever considered the the X-Wing dial to be bad. Sure I would rather have the 1 forward than the 5 forward but the Advanced has Barrel Roll so I'd say that's a wash.

honestly, Xs have a hard time keeping up with stuff positionally nowadays I find. However, you do have a good point.

Basically, I'm saying that the Tempest is basically a fair trade for 21 pts. But its not better than that. Its not worth more... it feels, constrained.

I flew two scum firesprays against a list with 2 AC Tempests. Put the rocks in the center and he tried to go through them, found out rather quickly that the rocks were seriously impeding his movement while I made unconventional moves to get around and made him quickly out of position even though he never actually hit a rock.

X-wings have a hard time because they have neither boost nor barrel roll to alter final position.

Tough to say. We still have 3 pilots left to see. Vader of course will be amazeballs, since he can be decent currently. Maarek will be fun, especially with the cheaper Calculation avaialble. But, will still depend on what the opponent is flying. Alozen will be a fun blocker. Toss on Engine Upgrade, and you have another potential Guri.

Huh? The dial is almost identical to an X-wing and nobody has ever considered the the X-Wing dial to be bad. Sure I would rather have the 1 forward than the 5 forward but the Advanced has Barrel Roll so I'd say that's a wash.

X-wings can get R2 units which can greatly augment their abilities For example, the regular R2 unit makes the X-wing much more veritile after performing a K-turn or receiving stress from various sources. TIE Advanced are just only recently catching up to this R2 advantage in the form of Sensor Upgrades being made available to them.

Even without the fix, these guys got a whole lot better with proton rockets, put them on a tempest and watch your opponent make a tough call between it and your flanker

Huh? The dial is almost identical to an X-wing and nobody has ever considered the the X-Wing dial to be bad. Sure I would rather have the 1 forward than the 5 forward but the Advanced has Barrel Roll so I'd say that's a wash.

Not even really close. The TIE Advanced is the only ship in the game without access to either the one-straight or a one hard turn, the two best maneuvers in the game. Beyond that, it has basic and the same number of greens, a single K-turn, and no unique moves. . So, in terms of small ship dial, I'd argue that saying it's average is even a stretch. It's not as bad as Y or HWK but that's about it. Barrel Roll is great, but it's not as useful on the lower PS ships and requires an action that is often sorely needed either for defense or offense on an advanced.

So AdvSensor the buggers and barrel roll before moving.

Give it an Accuracy Corrector and your action is free for the repositioning.

You don't need to use the ATC, all the other system upgrades are completely free of charge.

The Advance's dial is a hybrid between the fighter and the X-wing, which makes it really janky

just enjoy its incredible durability (for its cost) statline and the free range of maneuvers (including 5 straight) outside speed 1, now with system upgrades actually giving you reasonable offensive output

also, barrel-roll is ******* amazing at every single level of PS. The X-wing lacking it makes it one of the stiffest **** things to fly even with what is considered to be a "solid" or "average" dial. Being able to reposition for the next turn or to block critical opponents is an asset that really goes unappreciated until you lose it.

So AdvSensor the buggers and barrel roll before moving.

Give it an Accuracy Corrector and your action is free for the repositioning.

You don't need to use the ATC, all the other system upgrades are completely free of charge.

I'm not sure who you're responding to.

I was more addressing how the dial is bad and how barrel roll doesn't save it.

The ship and title are going to much improved with the title, though I still wouldn't recommend making use of the roll unless you're blocking or getting out of arcs, since it leaves you defenseless.

So AdvSensor the buggers and barrel roll before moving.

Give it an Accuracy Corrector and your action is free for the repositioning.

You don't need to use the ATC, all the other system upgrades are completely free of charge.

Imo, you do need to use either AC or ATC

the Advance was absolute garbage for 3 years because its 2 dice offense could never justify its cost, so it's probably in their best interest to take some means of fixing that

The Advance's dial is a hybrid between the fighter and the X-wing, which makes it really janky

just enjoy its incredible durability (for its cost) statline and the free range of maneuvers (including 5 straight) outside speed 1, now with system upgrades actually giving you reasonable offensive output

also, barrel-roll is ******* amazing at every single level of PS. The X-wing lacking it makes it one of the stiffest **** things to fly even with what is considered to be a "solid" or "average" dial. Being able to reposition for the next turn or to block critical opponents is an asset that really goes unappreciated until you lose it.

The hybrid makes it worse than both, sadly. It will be manageable for sure, but the dial certainly hasn't helped it's effectiveness like it does for other ships that have less than desirable stat lines.

I rarely play ships that can't reposition, so I know its value at all levels. I'd still argue that barrel roll, while certainly useful, is not as useful at low PS as high PS, especially on more expensive ships.

Huh? The dial is almost identical to an X-wing and nobody has ever considered the the X-Wing dial to be bad. Sure I would rather have the 1 forward than the 5 forward but the Advanced has Barrel Roll so I'd say that's a wash.

I think the problem is folks comparing the dial to the TIE Fighter (which is dirt cheap, and so common we kind of take it for granted and treat it like the baseline of the Imperial faction) or the TIE Interceptor (which is magnificent, and also comparable in cost, even a few points cheaper than the Advanced).

The Advanced dial might not be "terrible" (that may be overselling it a bit, but the internet's the internet), but it certainly does have some holes in it, and for the price I think folks are justified in wishing it was a little more nimble. Those in-close moves, in particular, are sorely lacking. Green 1-banks doesn't make up for the total lack of anything else at speed 1, in my opinion.

If you're used to Interceptors, the thing's positively stifling.

With the less than desirable statline fixed through the tie/x1 I do think the dial will be more than manageable

I don't quite agree about the broll though, since the applications are similar (repositioning for future turns/orientating Arcs) or different but effective regardless (arc dodging/blocking)

Regardless, any difference between high/low PS rolls is negligible next to having and not having it

We don't even have the cards in hand and we are already calling for a new fix?......

Huh? The dial is almost identical to an X-wing and nobody has ever considered the the X-Wing dial to be bad. Sure I would rather have the 1 forward than the 5 forward but the Advanced has Barrel Roll so I'd say that's a wash.

Not even really close. The TIE Advanced is the only ship in the game without access to either the one-straight or a one hard turn, the two best maneuvers in the game. Beyond that, it has basic and the same number of greens, a single K-turn, and no unique moves. . So, in terms of small ship dial, I'd argue that saying it's average is even a stretch. It's not as bad as Y or HWK but that's about it. Barrel Roll is great, but it's not as useful on the lower PS ships and requires an action that is often sorely needed either for defense or offense on an advanced.

+1

I would also add that the DIAL is worse than a Y-Wing, even if you disregard the existence of astromechs, but the addition of a 1 point R2/Unhinged puts the Y-Wing way, WAY out ahead. The HWK is the only small ship with a worse dial, mostly because it lacks a K-Turn, but even that dial is otherwise fairly comparable. The lack of both a 1 straight and a 1 turn is crippling once ranges close, and is the reason the dial feels so "constrained". 1 turn and 1 straight are the two most often used maneuvers and the TIE/Ad lacks BOTH of them. The barrel roll lets the TIE/Ad keep up maneuver-wise, and on balance the TIE/Ad will outmaneuver Xs, Ys, and Zs, but it still costs your action to use BR so your firepower and defense go down while doing so (barring AC).

With a sensor to help overcome the action inefficiency inherent to using BR, the TIE/Ad is finally able to compete and play like the hybrid TIE/X-Wing it was supposed to be.

We don't even have the cards in hand and we are already calling for a new fix?......

I think your mistaking an analysis of the dial with people thinking it will need more, but really it was just another reason they were behind. A lot of people probably didn't even bother to fly it regularly until the fix came out and didn't recognize that it wasn't just two attack dice that was an issue with the ship.

While it's dial is worse than an interceptor, it also hits harder with ATC.

It might not be super easy to get all the time, but it averages 1 hit and a Crit each time, with a high chance of 2 hits (25%) (without focus), and a Crit.

They also have 2 more shields than an interceptor.

They aren't as easy to fly as an interceptor, but they are far more powerful than an interceptor in certain situations and play styles. And only 4 points more expensive.

(Of course, there are other builds that don't see much consideration. Throw in a sensor jammer, and they are incredibly hard to kill)

With better durability you can joust with an advanced where you cant with an interceptor it'll find it's place even with it's dial.

I think that with Accuracy Corrector or even ATC you can afford to spam k turns or fly through debris with these things because you're still modifying your offense with AC/ATC. ATC might be real strong against 2 ship builds as you'll always have a TL on whatever.

Advanced Sensors is a definite nope. Enhanced Scopes isn't really good on anything so double nope. Sensor Jammer maybe if you want to stack stealth device? Nah. FCS? Ehhhhhhh, maybe for ordnance? But ordnance sucks though.

I think the upgrade to Storm Squadron for the extra 2 points will be worth it. Gets you above double predator, swarms, and most 4 ship power rebel builds in PS.

(Of course, there are other builds that don't see much consideration. Throw in a sensor jammer, and they are incredibly hard to kill)

that's because the only thing harder to kill than an SJ advance is the thing the SJ advance is trying to kill