Tekken Article - The King of Iron Criticism

By MarcoPulleaux, in UFS General Discussion

Tekken 6 – The King of Iron Criticism
by Shinji Mimura

So finally Tekken has come to our shores, and finally I GET ACCESS TO A **** COMPUTER! (thus why I was gone for a good 5 someodd days, not clogging your forumz =/). Anyways, the 2nd market has gotten their shipment in early it seems, and has their stock up for grabs. I'm going to go over hopefully enough of the set, some pros, cons, recurring themes, etc etc. Just some opining, really.

Tekken's Influence and Involvement in NEWFS:

In almost every set of UFS up until Set 12, there would be a whole slew of balanced, slower cards, and then there'd be about 20-40 unbalanced cards, or rather, cards that were part of a faster, more broken game that I call “BROKEFS”. Unfortunately, the game kept releasing more over-the-edge power cards and none of the balanced, slower cards could keep up. As such, the phrase “2 good chars out of 11, 10 good cards and the rest are junk” became the unchanging expectation of every set.

Tekken helps keep up with what Set 12 started in releasing even more balanced, slower cards, to help keep this game more aggressively-oriented. A lot of cards here have effects purely involving the word “damage”. Furthermore, as appears to be the rule, every character has effects that only work on your turn.

With Tekken, every symbol is represented, with All, Death, and Void getting the most support (from having 2 chars each).

Char-by-Char Break Down

Christie

Alas, the only 7 hander in Tekken (and one of the few 7 handers in NEWFS), we finally see her in all her of Capoera goodness. Kinda.

The Bad News: Christie has a lot of gimmicky tricks that are pretty much just that: gimmicky. The E on You Have no Rhythm! pretty much doesn't work. Asfixiante isn't really worth the 2 check or momentum cost. Fruit Picker looks good in theory, but unless you're using Shattered Persona (way to eat the staging area), it's going to be hard to play a bunch of kicks AND Fruit Picker with its combo E. Now you might say, “why not use her SSS loop kick combo?” Because if that was your kill, THEN ITS YOUR KILL. It's a loop because it isn't supposed to stop. If it's stopped, good luck passing Fruit Picker with its combo. Relaxing Model is just bad.

The Good News: OMFG LOL SSS LOOP! I like the SSS loop, even if I'm not too confident in it. I like it, of course, because all it requires is 4-5-6, repeat. Lunging Brush Fire is what Kunai should have been. It's pretty much the only way to make Fruit Picker work, and for a 6 difficulty, it's one helluva way to go through the card pool. Knee Thruster is just waiting to be busted. One with the Rhythm is IMO Christie's saving grace. Christie's speed will no longer be relevant when the opponent is clogging their card pool.

Summary: Not enough kicks to go around quite yet. To be frank...Christie kinda looks like a half-rate Ivy. Ivy's draw does not end the turn, whereas Christie's draw does. As such, Ivy can abuse the HELL out of One with the Rhythm WAY more than Christie ever could. “What about Water Christie?” Water is a dead symbol, since its only characters (Yi Shan, Lu Chen, Christie) all have Life, and Life is better than Water due to that. Simply put, as much as I like Christie, she doesn't have any saving merits, and is outranked in theme by Ivy and in aggro by Astrid and Tira.

Kazuya

The Bad News: Kazuya didn't get enough character-specific support. His Gloves are OK, but the Kazuya ability might as well be Intimidating Presence, which is non-unique and can be played multiple times in a turn. His signature Lightning Uppercut may get Powerful: 3 pretty easily, but only through a bunch of Treacherous Offspring and/or Mishima Zaibatsu Leader (only off Chaos) can you generate any momentum to make it matter. I really prefer Curse of the Ancient Mariner. The rest of his support is kinda meh. Maniacal Laughter is I guess a quick way to get momentum? Merciless Fighter is definitely balls. MFBloodline is Chaos-only for Kazuya, making me wonder WTH they were thinking. The Hunt is on is...eh, I guess cool for Mishimas, and Vengeance is...not Intimidating Presence.

The Good News: INFILTRATING! I like him as an aggro character. Destruction in His Wake is great early game with a lot of those low difficulty attacks Daiyu gave us. Evil Intentions is the closest to Ira-Spinta. Double Face Kick is cool. Lion Slayer is much like Uppercut; 4 diff, 2 check that can kill or maim. G-Corp Leader is cute, bounce what you've blown-up. Need to Destroy is going to do amazingly well with Dark Geo da Rey.

Summary: I'll admit, I never played with Start Over or Infiltrating because I thought they were boring, and that game resets are annoying and should be limited in how they are implemented. However, it's very simple to understand how if your opponent outbuilds you how nuking the field after playing out your hand is important. I think he'll see play, but truly, I think Nightmare is better. His R, in conjunction with iPresence and G-Corp Leader I feel make his destruction much better than Kazuya's, and his access to Fire is more important than Kazuya's to Chaos. All in all, he'll see play, but between Nightmare and Jin, Kazuya's in a tough spot.

King

The Bad News: Not much bad to say about our public drunkard. Honestly, I don't see King using any attacks BUT Throws, so I kinda feel bad for the rest of his attacks. Learned from the Best is extremely useless, and People's Hero isn't much better. Also, King is yet another character who cries to Ancient Burial Ground.

The Good News: Almost everything. Tutors Throws with his ability and his mask, reduces opponent's 7 handsize to 6, uses Cobra Twist and King of the Ring to screw over 6 handers immensely. The Entertainer stacks and does amazingly with his F and Mask.

Summary: Not much to say about him, he's currently the master of Throwdown, even more so than Ragnar, Rashotep, and Siegfried IMO. I feel his weakness to Ancient Burial and lack of built-in damage pump will make him only see play “here and there”, but he's certainly a good character with multiple reasons to use him, and can side well into his various Earth brethren.

Nina

The Bad News: Oh boy...where do we begin? When you look at Nina's F, you might immediately think, “since her ability deals with rigging the top of their deck, Nina's support might have to deal with F-ing them over due to knowing the top of their deck”, right? Wrong. Almost all of Nina's support deals with naming cards in your opponent's hand, and while you might then think, “She has support that causes your opponent to draw”, you'd be wrong again. No, if Nina maybe had an effect that said, “your opponent adds 1 card from their hand to the bottom of their deck and then draws 1 card”, THEN her naming support might matter. Too bad she doesn't. As such, Nina's F is a way to “snipe” problematic cards, rig your opponent's next draw and checks, which is cute..but her aggressive prowess is likely rivaled by others whom, while they may not be able to “rig” the opponent's checks, they do better. Also, as a lot of her support has to name cards, if you guess wrong, you're going to need a second card to guess right.

The Good News: Her Ice Pick can combo off itself...except you need to check a 6, and you need a smaller RFG pile than your opponent. The only way I can think to RFG your opponent's cards causing them to have a larger RFG pile is with Twilight Witch or Forbidden Lore, which is off Death. Her F is otherwise her saving grace.

Summary: Not a huge fan, really. She's best off of Void where she can abuse her F with No Mercy. Her foundations are pretty good. Sworn to Protect might help you block, War Between Sisters is Charisma, and Wipe the Floor is going to make anti-discard matter immensely. I'd place her in a similar category as Cervantes, only instead of mad boosting checks as Cervantes does, she messes with the opponents (and abuses the FKKK out of Shadow Flare). All-in-all, she could be kinda cool, but it's purely her F that will make her matter.

Paul

The Bad News: None

The Good News: Every card he has is playable. Even “The Boot” is basically a Pommel Smash in Paul (or a Tiger Claw with different symbols).

Summary: Everything to say about Paul has been. Phoenix Smasher is going to be eating children. Toughest in the Universe says BRING IT ON YA ALIENS! Paul using Pommel Smash is just hilarity. Instantly added to the top tier list.

Problematic Cards

-King of the Ring: It may not live up to its hype, but for now, I'm definitely having my eye on this card. If you can keep up constant pressure with Throws (and with King, the feat is simple), you're getting guaranteed momentum. Then, you can choose when they draw less cards. Works amazingly with Cobra Twist, I might add.

-Wipe the Floor: I don't see how this card passed. Before you shout “anti-discard”, the problem with anti-discard has been, and apparently always will be, that I SHOULD want to run the card for its effect, NOT for it's anti-discard effect! Either way, Wipe the Floor is going to cause tears for pre-release, and is definitely going to see play in the metagame. Win games with it game 1, and then when people side in their anti-discard game 2, you side in different attacks.

-War Between Sisters: Great, Charisma, except now it has a block. I remember discard back when it actually had a cost -_- . Either way, I've been playing mini block, and if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that you generally expend OVER half of your handsize in a turn, making multiple copies of War Between Sisters BREEZE through the opponent's hand. That, and with Keeper of the Watchers and Nina's support, you can see what they have, name-it-and-discard-it, then WBS the rest.

-Toughest in the Universe: No minimum damage reduction, and the Fire restriction on the Combo E doesn't matter when Fire's cast of chars already includes Astrid, Hilde, and Paul sharing 2 or more symbols with it.

-Phoenix Smasher: Ugh...what hasn't been said about this? The fact that Wheel Kick makes the card broke is almost a joke. The Combo E went to the wrong ability. Stun: 3 is cool, but that whole damage pump? Yeah, definitely what wins the games. Not looking forward to seeing this card in play.

-Financial Troubles: What in the HELL were they THINKING?! Pot of Greed? If Financial Troubles destroyed itself, I'd have no problem with it, but basically, every turn its out your opponent is faced with the “do I let him draw into options? Or do I sacrifice my hand?” More often than not, your opponent WON'T discard, thus making it F Commit: Draw 2 cards, one of the whole reasons I HATED, WITH A PASSION, AQUAKINESIS! *sigh* Not looking forward to it =/

-For the Money: Again, what the HELL?! You either go mad aggro on their ass, and they suck it up, or they're tapping out options. All it takes is to abuse Fire's Stun tap-outs to get rid of their ability to tap 2 cards, and there, +2 to your checks. And LOL at it having Chaos: good ol Cervantes =).

-Mishima Zaibatsu Leader: Discourages momentum generation. “Oh you attacked me and generated momentum? Cool, now on my turn I'll dump it all and steal from your momentum.” And one more thing...WTF A +2 BLOCK ON A FOUNDATION? THE SKY IS FALLING!

How Set 12 chars and symbols fair

-Daiyu: Destruction in His Wake so happens to combo with Twilight Embrace. What's that? Remove 2-4 and destroy 3? Don't mind if I do reset your entire board in a turn, then finish the job with some Body of Souls loopsauce. Also, winning with Proficient Sniper for the lawlz.
-Zi Mei: Uh...she can...use The Entertainer? Otherwise, she sticks to using Fury of the Ancients, and that's...'bout it.
-Yi Shan: Still the joke of NEWFS (though not as much of one as Zi Mei or Astaroth, IMO). Christie's support he could truly care less about (except for MAYBE Lunging Brush Fire), and King's support is generally best done by King.
-Lu Chen: No support here.
-Temujin: Mishima Zaibatsu Leader to help him get momentum. FROM THE FKKING HAWK + NINA'S SUPPORT! 'cept too bad anybody with Air can do it (go Tira!) Um...nah, Temujin didn't really get anything.
-Rashotep: Yes King, feed me more throws, muahaha! Rashotep's lame ass game of K0ntr01 (called to represent the modern changes) gets better when Rasho is not just blanking your stuffs, Stunning your grey, and Burial Siting your chars, but now he's also limiting what you draw with King of the Ring and Cobra Twist (which works well with One-Handed C[r]ock Grasp). Definitely got some buffs.
-Ragnar: Man Behind the Mask would be funny with him. Also, using Phoenix Smasher for the redundancy. All in all, he didn't really get anything he particularly needed; Heir to the Storm sealed his usefulness =).
-Astrid: OMFG NO WEAPONS! WHAT AM I TO DO? Still, For the Money and Financial Troubles are going to give Astrid more of a heyday than she already had.

-Siegfried: Siegfried's placement of “mid tier” remains unchanged. All Siegfried had and still has going for him is a reliable, otherwise “free” damage pump, which is only made cuter when used with The Entertainer. He is aggro, he is reliable, he is “the main character”.
-Nightmare: Oh boy...because iPresence and his own ability weren't enough, now he has Vengeance (which is used on their turn), G-Corp Leader (to recycle iPresence destroyed stuff), and Destruction in his Wake (Crushing Embrace-Leg Sweep-Lawn Chair: BLOW UP THE WORLD!) to completely dominate. Nightmare is exactly that, and he will definitely see even more play than he already did.
-Ivy: Got Void boosts from Nina's discard, although I still think Ivy's best off Life. Still good.
-Cervantes: OMFG yeah this man got the boosts. Kazuya and Nina both gave him stuff he wanted. Nina just gave him generic good Void stuff, but Kazuya, mm...Need to Destroy and Maniacal Laughter, right what the doctor ordered for a Chaos-set Cervantes.
-Algol: For interesting theminess, combine Searching for Family with his support for draw. Either that, or Nina's discard in conjunction with his combo. Either way, Algol got support in all 3 symbols, all across his board. I still dislike him, but Alshain Najm can FINALLY work! (Wipe the Floor, Shockwave Palm, Alshain).
-Astaroth: Bleh...I say nothing.
-Tira: Oh yeah, Keeper of the Watchers + Nina's support = Tira aggro just got hawter. Although Life Tira might be best to some, I'm gonna go ahead and say Death Tira is now the best Tira, as her 7HS + Cursed Blood = building speed, and then Nightmare's destruction and kill options + Nina's support put her over Air (which only has From the Hawk and Communing with Ancients as major points), and over Life.
-Hilde: IMO, doesn't need any help since she's frickin Hilde. Never the less, Paul's support in general helped her because it's awesome.

Final Summary on Tekken: Thankfully, the support cards are working better with their appropriate character, and less with others. Christie's SSS Loop only works with her (unless you're using Yi Shan/Ivy + Needs no Ally), Paul abuses his own Stun and support with ease, and King is pretty much the best to use with his own support. I think everybody but Christie will see play, and that's only because all 4 characters stand out, whereas Christie looks like she was designed in 30 seconds. SSS Loop is predictable, and Fruit Picker simply isn't that good. She's interesting as an aggro character, but Tira kills quicker off Life, Ivy does what Christie wishes she could do, Astrid is just stupid good in general, and Yi Shan and Lu Chen are much more fun characters. Anyways, time to update the tier list:

Definitions

Symbol Tier – A symbol's ranking in tier is judged by not just how many cards it has in general, but how many times its symbol outshines the other two adjacent to it (such as how every card Order has, Fire has too), and how the symbol shines competitively.

Character Tier – A character's ranking is based upon the letter.

S Rank – Indicated a character who will always see play in the current format, is plenty capable of winning tournaments, and is capable of frequent and reliable turn 2-4 kills, or is simply very reliable (such as Jin, Paul).

A Rank – Indicates a character with great abilities, great reliability, and that will always see play in the current format, but is not quite the powerhouse threat that S Rank characters are.

B Rank – Indicates a character who is “middle tier”, in that they are better than the characters of lower tier, but have a hard time dealing with those of upper tier. Never the less, B Rank characters have unique abilities that, while that may make them a bit more themed and thus less well-rounded, they can still win in their own way.

C Rank – Indicates a character that is much a “one-trick” pony, or a character outclassed by others above them. C Rank characters are extremely limited to what they do, and while they can win, it's simply hard to justify running them.

F Rank – Indicates a character who likely has no place in the current metagame. F Rank characters either have horrible abilities, predictable or limited win schemes, are reliant on the opponent, or are merely outclassed by other characters. Although ANY character CAN win, F Rank generally shouldn't be attempted.

Symbol Tier: (ordered from best to worst)

Top Tier:

Fire
Death
Earth
Life

Middle Tier:

Void
Chaos
All
Air

Bottom Tier:

Evil
Good
Order
Water

Character Tier: (ordered alphabetically)

S Tier:

Astrid
Hilde
Jin Kazama
Paul Phoenix
Rashotep
Tira

A Tier:

Cassandra
James Hata
JJ
Kazuya Mishima
King
Nightmare
Ragnar

B Tier:

Cervantes
Ivy
John Herr
Lu Chen
Omar Chavez
Padma
Zhao Daiyu

C Tier:

Algol
Nina Williams
Siegfried
Temujin

F Tier:

Astaroth
Christie Monteiro
Yi Shan
Zi Mei

That's the article! If you want to read my tier explanations, read below. Otherwise, comment my report, and thanks for reading!

I might as well give some quick explanations on the tiers so there's more to discuss.

-Astrid: No real explanations needed. Her promo stacker makes her even more rediculous. She simply has everything. Amazing assets (which are foundations when stacked), promo Adon in a foundation, PACK Adon in a foundation, the ability to reverse with Pommel (something Paul would grunt for). She's one of the safest, most universal characters.
-Hilde: The queen of ring-outs is still exactly that. I don't like playing with her, because I'm sick of her “wait til I kill you” playstyle. Never the less, I've rung-out my roommate so many times she made me switch chars to James Hata (whom promptly rips her to shreds anyways), and I'm using an extremely poor man's Hilde.
-Jin: The man is theoretically capable of turn 1s. Go second. F with Jin, F with Unnatural Grace, Crushing Embrace, Midnight Launcher, Knight Breaker, probably dead, if not extremely maimed. His flexibility and 3 diff stacker just make him that much more reliable.
-Paul: Phoenix Smasher is already the card of discussion on the board. The fact that he has built-in Pommel Smash is cute, but the fact that he can run Pommel Smash off all 3 symbols is stupid. That, and as I mentioned, Wheel Kick being a segue into his kill switch is just stupid. And after a heaping helping of Wheel Kicks, all you need to do is For the Money to pass Phoenix Smasher.
-Rashotep: The guy already controlled enough of the game, but he got a mountain of support in the form of King (E/V), Nina (D/V), Kazuya (D), and some of those generic cards. He could already blank your character with his E, blank your stuff with his Crown, cancel your stuffs with his Burial Site (which I might add really knocks Cassie and King down the tier list), and now with King's support he can limit how much you draw, with Nina he can discard your hand, and with Kazuya he can blow up your stuff. Rashotep is THE control character, and he has the Bling and the Darth Vader Choke to prove it!
-Tira: I'll admit, I haven't played a mini-block Tira, but I'm assuming she's the money (and any Tira player can correct me if she's just A tier). With Nina's support, her Death prowess can truly shine, making her IMO Death's greatest aggro threat.

-Cassandra: Would be top tier if Ancient Burial Site didn't completely ruin her character. Never the less, she's still awesome purely because she's awesome off Fire beats.
-James Hata: That free R is where it's at. After a Searching for Plunder and his E, my attacks generally go through without a hitch. Upper Claw never looked so broken. Hata's offensive, defensive, and quick. Everything you'd expect from a two-time champion.
-JJ: Definitely awesome, and is the only character in the block with Order and NOT Fire. However, he isn't quite the aggressive force out there, and while his R is awesome, it's the only thing he's got behind 3 mediocre symbols.
-Kazuya: Remember Infiltrating? Remember how much it saw play? Yeah.
-King: Two things keep him from truly breaking face: 1. Dies to Ancient Burial Ground. 2. Has no true damage pumps outside of the ones that already existed. Either way, the guy tutors throws, and has one of the all-time best char-only unique assets around. Expect to see him Cobra Twisting and King of the Ringing folks at a store near you.
-Nightmare: Has become even more of a Nightmare than he already was. Crushing Embrace + Searching for Plunder + Intimidating Presence wasn't his only scare. Now he's got Vengeance, a more defensive destroy card, G-Corp Leader, and mostly, Destruction in His Wake. Still amazing, still reliable.
-Ragnar: Once a joke, now amazing due to the promo Heir to the Storm. Storm Hammer was one of the only justifying means to play him, but now that Storm Hammer has almost been reprinted into a non-unique foundation, his emo damage pumps on a throw get to epic proportions without much trying at all.

-Cervantes: Was already pretty cool in his ways to uber pump his own checks, but now he's definitely been made better all around thanks to the new stuff. Need to Destroy is going to make Dark Geo even more of a staple than it already was. Mishima Zaibatsu Leader is going to discourage the Hell out of the opponent generating momentum. Cervantes with For the Money is redundant.
-Ivy: Doesn't particularly need anything here, but I've certainly come to value her worth in the metagame. With damage reduction otherwise being at a low (to the point of non-existence), Ivy's chain of puny attacks sure can move. Oh yeah, Hunt for Jin + her attack that revels the top of deck?
-John Herr: His great abilities can only be hindered by his bad symbols. Thankfully, Herr is the only Water character without Life, but that still doesn't mean he's really too good off Water. Herr + Hunt for Jin and the Ivy attack are where it's at.
-Lu Chen: Didn't get any real boosts, but oh well, he's the defensive master.
-Padma: Not sure what to say other than she's fun. Throws that always deal their printed? Sure.
-Zhao Daiyu: Definitely in the “usable” tier. Although I still retain Twilight as her only saving feature, that's one hell of a feature.

-Algol: Not much to say here.
-Nina Williams: Once again, I think she'll be used, primarily off Void, sometimes off Death, but her F is the only reason to use her, and to me, that's what brings her to the C Rank.
-Omar Chavez: Again, I'm not the best with champion cards, so maybe Omar (or people who use Omar) can convince me otherwise. Earth is a very hot symbol for justification, something I don't feel Omar does very well. All and Chaos I just don't find that good for what Omar does.
-Siegfried: Too plain. Soul Calibur* and his E are definitely saving graces, and he'll certainly see play, but he's just not enough of a driving force.
-Temujin: Borderline useless. His F is awesome for Combos...except Combos almost always go off without a hitch anyways.

-Astaroth: I still remain unconvinced. Off Earth, you have Siegfried. Off Evil you have Nightmare and Daiyu. Off Fire you have, well, everyone.
-Christie Monteiro: A second-rate Ivy, which says a lot.
-Yi Shan: One of the most fun characters is simply too dependent. Not even on his E, but rather, on his entire theme of face-up momentum. He needs Dark Past for damage pumps, but Dark Past needs attacks. Ergo, you must play your foundations, then play your attacks (and they must deal damage, of course), and then next turn you can use Dark Past. His attacks are great for stats, but that's about it. If he only had 30 vitality =/.
-Zi Mei: One-trick pony, and a horrible one at that. Summoning a giant Fury of the Ancients is nothing compared to the better ways to kill, and if Fury of the Ancients ever mattered tremendously in the metagame, people would sideboard Mark of the Beast.

I have to disagree with Ivy being only on the B tier. If there ever comes a reason for PotM to get banned she will be the cause of it, no character abuses it more. Also i dont think ALL is as high on the pecking order as you think but time will tell where everything falls into place.

-alex marco

Holy wall of text Batman! Dunno how I agree with your tier list, at all, but eh. One thing I will comment on; if you're dropping Cassie a rank solely because of Ancient Burial Ground, she can run Tower of Souls off of two symbols (although the weaker two, Life and Void) and destroy it at the cost of a foundation and having a terrain in her yard. And then she can use its bonuses on her own terms (hi Castle Twilight, Sailor's Rest). Or sped-up Ragnar asset hate, or Scroll...

Also, I'm honestly not too impressed by Paul -- he's dramatically outpaced by Astrid and Ragnar in damage output (both in volume and in the number of turns before the pain starts coming), and as a OHKO he's obviously worse than Hilde.

  • Each has hate tech (anti-speed vs. Hilde which is nearly useless elsewhere; anti-commit for Paul), but Hilde can both hate on her hate tech (Pommel Smash it) and win without it more easily (by running more attacks and leveraging 7HS+draw power; an efficient Paul will be built with 100% stun attacks, and abilities that rely on your opponent being stunned out)
  • Hilde needs ~two cards to kill, and the kill is unavoidable unless there's hate tech on the board for it. Paul can make really big moves with his E, and against a tapped board... but it might not be fast enough to get through a held Cleave/Knight Breaker.
  • Hilde can do her thing on turn 2 with nothing but good rolls and draws (of 2-3 cards); much of Paul's stuff relies on a large number of foundations being on the board, or having an expensive attack string like Phoenix Smasher (which IMO is just a more flexible, Stunning, but ultimately weaker Dragon's Flame) and therefore is delayed until later in the game.

He's good, but I don't think he's great. Maybe good for a Fire toolbox deck against a slow Earth tank that's frustrating you with Stand Offs... but what to do when it drops Torn Hero? : Such are my doubts

Anyway, the Paul card that draws 2 unless your opponent discards 1 basically says, "I'm really good until my opponent boards in anti-discard (at which point my opponent completely controls my destiny ) or I run into a deck running Martial Arts Champ".

Haha, I run Nina (dual symbol Death/Void) and it runs surprisingly well (War Between Sisters + Ancient Fighting Style, anyone?) . Unknown Sons to cause them to have a RFG pile early on from their blocking, then just start slapping them in the face with some Ice Picks (Need more), Hell Lancers, Spinning Demons. Hell, even some Evil Mists (Really? A 0 damage attack that if it isn't blocked, your opponent takes 2 damage? High Zone? Sure, let me pump it's damage a bit...). Works really well with Kazuya's support, as well.

Besides my little input, I generally agree with what you've said. Such a balanced set imo, not really any big trouble cards. Wipe the Floor HAS won me many games, as well as pissing my opponent off. That card has my vote for "Best card of the set".

wow this might be my favorite set! my favorite character (paul) check, my character being good check, my character getting lots of support CHECK CHECK! I got into this game because i love fighting games but I was always bummed out that my favorite characters didnt get the support that I wanted them to have and now one of them has it!

I'd move Omar at least up one tier. His E was made to either brutalize throw chains or combos, and he is probably still the only true selective recursion in the game.

Waffle - Although I AGREE Astrid and Hilde are better than Paul, he's still top tier and capable of winning. While Astrid and Hilde CAN do what Paul does, they simply do not, which is why I put him on their level. Astrid and Hilde could clog their decks with Stun, but beyond Pommel Smash, they likely aren't. Paul is likely to run 4 Pommel, 4 Wheel Kick, and 4 Phoenix Smasher, if not some other cards like Tandoya, The Boot, etc. Leading with a Wheel Kick is 3 foundations and their character tapped. If that isn't their entire board, another Wheel or Pommel will do it. Then go in with Phoenix Smasher, Combo E for the extra Stun: 3, Phoenix Smasher E for +9 damage, Toughest in the Universe FTK. This kill gets better later game, I might add. I've thought about Torn Hero, and really, I doubt Paul would care. By the time he's used his R, he's pretty much fulfilled his purpose if he is to get tapped, and by the time you're ready to kill, it means you're ready to wade through Torn Hero. And as for Financial Distress and anti-discard, you can simply bait the anti discard out of their hand (making them block with it), and then abuse Financial Distress at the end of your turn to basically draw out of what you spent.

Shiros - Your take on her seems interesting, but where you're using Unknown Son to abuse Ice Pick, I'd rather stick to the reliable Knight Breaker.

DaiAndOh - Hmm...gonna need some more than that. What symbol is he best off of? What's his kill? Etc.

Re:Paul: I also agree that he can win games and whatnot, but I really think he's one of the weakest characters in this set. He's just slower than the others, and nothing in his support helps out his gimmick as much as Paying Respect or Dual Wielding help out the stronger characters.

Re:Financial Distress: It's a sweet card, for sure, but risky. If you can put enough pressure on me that I'm forced to block with my anti-discard action, and play enough of your hand that the card advantage from Distress is more valuable than the ready foundation, I think I'm already playing a losing game :b. Plus, if you use it at the end of your turn, or after you already played a bunch of attacks, I'll just discard anything I have left -- after all, I have a Draw Step coming up, you don't. Unless I think you're trying to bait me, at which point the mindgames become fun :D .

Wafflecopter said:

Re:Paul: I also agree that he can win games and whatnot, but I really think he's one of the weakest characters in this set. He's just slower than the others, and nothing in his support helps out his gimmick as much as Paying Respect or Dual Wielding help out the stronger characters.

Re:Financial Distress: It's a sweet card, for sure, but risky. If you can put enough pressure on me that I'm forced to block with my anti-discard action, and play enough of your hand that the card advantage from Distress is more valuable than the ready foundation, I think I'm already playing a losing game :b. Plus, if you use it at the end of your turn, or after you already played a bunch of attacks, I'll just discard anything I have left -- after all, I have a Draw Step coming up, you don't. Unless I think you're trying to bait me, at which point the mindgames become fun :D .

Paul has Toughest in the Universe. Wheel Kick - Wheel Kick - Phoenix Smasher - Toughest in the Universe is 3 - 4 - 7- 6. Requires some checks, but is enough to seal the game, for sure.

I see Financial Distress as such...

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.
2. Most people will keep 2 to 3 cards in hand, unless they seriously have a good staging area, and great blocks. As such, with only 2 to 3 cards, I can apply blocking pressure with attacks. If you didn't block with your anti-discard, did you even block at all? If you did block with your anti-discard, it's safe to assume you don't have a hand.
3. Anti-discard isn't necessarily all that it's cracked up to be. I'll only curse if I discarded Soul Wave. By the time I use Financial Distress, discarding Warrior's Path will likely be all but pointless, and Iron Thunder/Algol Attack are kinda "darn" moments.

MarcoPulleaux said:

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.

Guys, Financial Troubles works the same as Stand Off on the aspect of "You may do X to cancel this effect."

Discarding an anti-discard card won't work.

Omar+Rites alone is 48 damage. 6 hs yes, but selective recursion and now reliable momentum gen. Massive CC boost too for passing.

On Earth, "ThrOmar" CAN recur the reverse DDT with one character, or a couple of cards. Or play 3 or so throws a turn and boost them. And earth is already great symbol.

Ancient Burial site does not turn off Cassandra's ability. My team mate asked James Hata because he was concerned that under the same assumption when Ancient Burial site is played, reversals can not be played at all. Anyways I forgot why but James said it did not turn off King's or Cassandra's ablity or reversals. I will see if I can get him to post why James said it next time I see him.

Homme Chapeau said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.

Guys, Financial Troubles works the same as Stand Off on the aspect of "You may do X to cancel this effect."

Discarding an anti-discard card won't work.

Yeah, Financial Troubles is insane, it's official. <bad "I got 99 problems" joke goes here>

Wafflecopter said:

Oh derp, yeah. I freakin' played SR Lizardman and I forget it. lol.

Yeah, Financial Troubles is insane, it's official. <bad "I got 99 problems" joke goes here>

And if we get a conflicting ruling on this, it will be the dumbest ruling ever.

Homme Chapeau said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.

Guys, Financial Troubles works the same as Stand Off on the aspect of "You may do X to cancel this effect."

Discarding an anti-discard card won't work.

Rules Arbiter Stamp.

Antigoth said:

Homme Chapeau said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.

Guys, Financial Troubles works the same as Stand Off on the aspect of "You may do X to cancel this effect."

Discarding an anti-discard card won't work.

Rules Arbiter Stamp.

SERIOUS METALHEAD CANADIAN IS SERIOUS.

Homme Chapeau said:

MarcoPulleaux said:

1. If you don't have anti-discard, lol@you.

Guys, Financial Troubles works the same as Stand Off on the aspect of "You may do X to cancel this effect."

Discarding an anti-discard card won't work.

I F--KING KNEW IT! *pompous self-righteousness dance*

DaiAndOh - You've got me convinced

drewkasa - What's the wording on Ancient Burial Site? If it says "no player may play ABILITIES that reveal cards from the hand", well that MAY make sense since King, Cassie, and reversals are revealing cards as part of a cost, not as part of the effect.

Still, get a good ruling, because if all Ancient Burial stops is Kisheri, Hawk, KotWatchers, etc, then it's definitely not as hawt as it could be =/

P.S. I'm getting a little sick of these "surprise" Hata rulings. With Dead for 1000 Years, it's pretty clear that it does NOT negate the effect. The effect goes through since it was legally played, then all copies are turned face-down. But Hata explained it that the card "forgets" what it is doing when it is turned face-down. ...so...it was negated, basically. Why not write that on the fkking card instead of confusing people with imaginary rulings?

With Burial Site, it really seems written that it stops anything that reveals the hand. But if that is implying effects, and not costs, then yeah, its limited just decreased (would've also stopped stuff like Searching for Family, It's got to be the Hair).

To be honest, Shinji, I think you're retarded. Your views on Hilde and Omar are proof enough of THAT on their own, but Christie, too? C'mon, you know better than that. Though I'm not going into detail, since I ain't ruining my rather clever Hilde strategy, ohoho :3

I would like 2 say Astrid is overrated. Paul is shut down by Perfect Sense... And Zhao and Omar both are well underrated in that Tier list..

I would like to say that discard is not riskless. There are cards from soul caliber 4 that have stiff penalities if they are discard from your hand. So I running discard could cost you the game if you are low on health. Look at Eltanin Nath, and Soul Wave*,

I will say I disagree with a lot of the tier stuff. I see some of the card analysis as looking at one way of using the card. There are some cards that are lackluster offensive cards but decent defensive cards.

I think King is on top with Rashotep. The main reason is that Rashotep's only ability on his character card is that he can blank a card in the staging area. So yes he can blank character cards but that is the only big advantage he gives. All of Ras support can be played by King. Add on King's abilities you have some tough control. I think it is a poor judgment to only run throws with King. I think that in cases where his key word "throw" is negated he is left to open. Having 1 or 2 non-throws allows him to survive in a rough format. I think that if a person is conscious that the play sphere is going to be playing cards that negate throws and reversals the packing Ras blanking support becomes key. Just blank the assest that is giving you trouble. Oh yeah everyone forgot about No Forgiveness that allows you to blank assets. So put King up a rung!

My concerns are as follows. There are cards that should have been there to support Zhao Daiyu that got given to Kazyuma. Yes Zhao can use them but it makes the cards that came with her look poor in comparision.

Yimfrang, G-Corp leader, master of magic, All life, Dark Bite combo is prey broke as day combo! Turn your opponent's momentum in to junk, put a destoryed blank attack foundation into your hand, and all life is prey the throw again. If anything with Master of Magic you can keep your throws each turn and make sure your opponent never can build momentum while you on the other hand really don't need to. That is not fun at all. It kills Yi Shan which is really sad.

Paul's stun lockdown is a bit discouraging because Stun's trade off was lack of damage but Paul laughs at that. This makes him the second most controling character in the game. People will run him because he takes the risk off of playing.

Kazyuma isn't as threating as I thought he would be. I do think that the support he has on his E is better suited and makes players think about playing multiple character cards again.

Tekken will change some of the meta. It will not shake it up as much as some people said.

MegaGeese said:

To be honest, Shinji, I think you're retarded. Your views on Hilde and Omar are proof enough of THAT on their own, but Christie, too? C'mon, you know better than that. Though I'm not going into detail, since I ain't ruining my rather clever Hilde strategy, ohoho :3

Hilde's top tier. How does my belief in that make me retarded? Or is it when I said, "she doesn't have to play with Stun". Notice how I said she CAN, it's just she doesn't have to to be any good. Omar I don't think is top tier, but is certainly a decent char.

Christie sucks balls dude. Go ahead and build her, with only what we have now, and we'll see just how good she can be.

How the Heck is Zi Mei F Tier? She still has Fury and can Multiple the crap out of it with no need of Momentum...

Oh as for Kazuya.. Remember Infiltrating..?? Remember how it had an awesome attack on the flip side?? Yea Kazuya's effect will only slow the game down. And his support is crap for him cuz none of it makes him capitilize off his board clearing effect.

By the way again.. You really underrated Zhao, Kazuya's support gives her quite a nice boost!!

I do agree Zi Mei is low tier tho.. The Devil Within Shyt's on her chest!

Sol Badguy said:

How the Heck is Zi Mei F Tier? She still has Fury and can Multiple the crap out of it with no need of Momentum...

Yeah, I don't get it either. Multiple 7 fury of the ancients that can easily come at silly amounts of damage with the right foundations, or running the rites with ascending zephyr, that good stuff.

Also does anyone find cards like Evil Intentions stupid like I do..