I'm trying to decide between this game and Memoir 44 for my next series of purchases. I've always been more of a fan of fantasy than military, but a couple of things about BattleLore concern me.

My biggest concern is availability. On the website I notice that many expansions are listed as unavailable. Does anyone know if they are going to be made available any time soon?

I'm also concerned about getting more races released and the lack of a method for players to create and post fan-made scenarios. I'd be interested in any feedback.

rickert said:

Availability is a concern. I have heard nothing about reprinting the current expansions. I would think they will do it at some time but "when" is the question. I saw this problem coming and bought all of the scenarios and creatures back in May.

I think more races will definitely happen and probably next year. I would expect elves and undead as they are the two that are most talked about. I got an answer on the fan-made scenario generator and was told FFG would like to create a scenario generator but they don't currently have the man power available to dedicate to the project.

It sounds a bit like BattleLore isn't a high priority for FFG right now, especially in terms of bringing in new players. I'll bet the long-time fans of the game were hoping for more when the game moved from DOW.

rickert said:

Actually, it took a little while for FFG to get going but they are doing a lot now. They've introduced, Heroes, Creatures, and the Dragons expansions, all of which should be out before the end of the year. There are also hints at other expansions that are in the works.

I am very happy with the amount of attention the game is getting now!

I understand that but those all would appear to me to be for the experienced player who has the game and probably more than one expansion. I think new players might be a put put off by some of the expansions being no longer available. After all, this isn't a collectible game really is it?

With nothing more than a sticking my finger in the air kind of way I could see FFG waiting til things like HYW and epic to sell out and re bundle them together for people already with the base game and release a new base game with them included. Likewise I can see something similar with the Dwarf and Goblin expansions to coincide with the release of other races as I have a gut feeling that the prefer fewer larger expansions than the lots of smaller ones DOW went for. Would be interesting to see if how close my guesses are...

Chris

Elberon said:

Heroes, Dragons and Creatures don't really point in that direction. They are all very small box releases, aren't they.

In reply to kilvert- I too am concerned about a lack of supply damaging the game's potential and product placement profile for new players.

After all, we need converts and newbies to do their bit in keeping the game alive. I have emailed my concerns to Esdevium games about this and FF.

In fact, as my recent Geek post will testify, I believe I may have the last mint English copy of 100 Years War- after managing to get one yesterday from a retailer (in their stock room -poor thing - hiding) and after being told repeatedly 'no stock.'

Yet comments I received from many other retailers, such as 'we'll phone our suppliers and order more,' or 'it will probably be reprinted' displayed not only general retailer ignorance re availability, but more worringly, their lack of product knowledge -I presume, normally received from Esdevium and FF.

So Esdevium have none- a trawl of British and Amercian web retailers proves they are out, and FF indicate on their web pages that no reprinting at the moment.

Which leaves us, newbies, and the product's direction where exactly?

Add to this some odd marketing decisions which perhaps are the result of considered planning, but which are not explained properly.

a) Include two original promo figures most old players possess. b) Why allow someone /agency to suddenly flood the market with these promos if you desire good Creature sales-which FF and we need for Battlelore's durability. Some retailers in UK and 12spiel, for example, are offering a free promo with existing expansions they still stock. Odd! Where have the Hill Giants suddenly come from?

c) Include in the Heroes expansion scenarios which need the 100 Years War expansion-hence I my desire to get it- when nobody can now get 100 Years, and new players buy a new expansion which in part they cannot fully utilise. Odd!

I am sure that behind the scenes there have been many excellent decisions made by FF management pertaining to the above situations, which I, like most of us, are not party to, nor have a right to be so. Economic variabilities, and FF probably having defined a particular style for the future,may be factors of these odd marketing occurences (ditch History -yet Heroes includes some history- and focus on Fantasy) as well possibly fullfilling any contractual obligations with DOW. Who knows. And that I think is the slight problem. FF don't say or hint the long term future. Dragons/creatures and heroes are are short term obligations/solutions to what DOW had promised moons ago.

So there perhaps is the conjectured truth. Once these three are out of the way and DOW stock has been relinquished/sold FF can start again-we can start again and refocus, and a new huge launch can hook in the new converts. Cos by gum it needs it. Gencon was all about other games-look at the high profile these brand, 'spanking new' games and their expansions got-all the razzle dazzle they received- and Battlolore was consigned to a few seconds in a video clip presentation of new productions, and dependant upon the photos from a fan. The last seven words worry me. The community learnt about Dragons/Creatures from a fan- not as the result of engineered publicity from FF. Oh dear!

Gosh this was supposed to be short. Sorry if it became a moan. So in summary, I worry about the game and I hope my observations are not indications of a decline, and general FF marketing mistakes. Instead, based on R. Borg's press comments and evident hopefulness, I hope/am sure that FF has, unbeknowns to us, got an exact, clear, forward thinking policy (they must have) and will generate a super new relaunch based, I presume, on a new Fantasy direction to gain new players.

Sorry-whose kilvert?

In reply to rickert David

It sucks to hear about your frustrations. I have two FLGS in the area where I live (Waterloo, Ontario, Canada) and both of them have plenty of Battlelore expansions. One of them even has an online store from which you can purchase the product and has a few copies of the expansion you are looking for. In short, keep looking; there are still copies of the OOP stuff out there.

The promo figures are no big deal. I don't have them either, but I may get similar units when the creatures package comes out.

Finally, this game is still supported and being expanded so you don't have a huge amount to complain about. Just have patience.

grumblygrew said:

I appreciate all who responded. I've decided not to buy into the game until at leadst someone official from FFG says the out of stock expansions will be reprinted in one form or another. My reason boils down to this, I'm going to have to get at least a small group of players to get into the game. I know those players and they are going to run away screaming from a product that tells players, "Buy this quickly or you won't be able to buy it at all." That is too much liuke the collectible market that we all divorced a few years ago. Thanks for the advice. Now I will just wait and watch.

I wouldn't run away just yet.

The original boxed game still has loads of play and replayability as compared with any other boxed game.

Some expansions are still in the shops -though not all.

And as I indicated in my previous diatribe, I do believe FF do have a forward view/plan which probably includes races.

Dragons and Creatures will give 8 more scenarios-but as yet we don't know if they will use figures from expansions.

Heroes does unfortunately use 100 years which is now nigh on impossible to get, but will provide a super way of playing all the published scenarios to date from a new perspective, i.e heroes. Just look at battle.com (Universal head) for the scenarios from base set .

And looking through geek you will see ideas and articles from people who know loads of stuff on the game.

Still good to get methinks David

grumblygrew said:

Does FFG really care about the future of the game or just about making money from the current customer base? How much sense does it make to have a new product that works with a padst expansion that is no longer available?

FFG makes high quality products, but they are also quite expensive. I looked at Tide of Iron but decided I've never liked a game well enough to pay $90 for it. I really don't want to get into a game which has expansions that I might never be able to fully use. When FFG gets everything in stock at once, I wiull very likely but into the game because of all of the positive feedback I've gotten about it. But since I like the game system, I'm going to buy into Memoir 44 now because it has everything available currently.

to Kilrah

Well dragons and creatures are small til you think that up till now creatures have only been available in packs of one so for this element of the game they have tripled in size . Creatures were supposed to be rare inclusions (not rare availablitity) in an army rather than one per guard also think about what could be included in a race box:

units* and their cards, new terrain, heroes, CtA deployment deck, (possibly even new lore deck), and thats assuming they don't introduce any more new elements to the game, though I think that Epic, CtA and Heroes 'round out' the base game and doesn't need too much else added to the core of the game.

Would you prefer all that in one army box (with the rules available on line to download so you don't need to buy the expansion to know what your opponents units can do) or spread across three plus boxes?

Chris

* How many do Goblins / Dwarves have now?

rickert said:

This is one of those no-win scenarios for FFG. I'm quite happy to have the scenarios that include units from prior expansions (and to some extent even use "non-existent" units, like Red banner human spears), as one of the biggest complaints people had about all of the expansion scenarios is that they never included anything beyond that expansion and the base game.

As for growing the player base, it seems like every time I check the forums I'm seeing posts by people new to the game, so I think that the player base is continuing to grow at a good clip. Creatures is geared to at least some extent to new players (or even players that have only been in the game the last year or two), as it is including figures that have otherwise been unavailable for a while, while throwing new uses in there for them to keep the established base happy--and while the people who don't have those creatures are quite happy, they're also complaining about the lack of the original tiles (like the Hill Giant summary card and Rock Pile). Of course, if they included those, the fans that already have them (like me!) would be wondering why we're buying a set that reproduces so many things we already have.

FFG has a narrow line to tread with BL, trying to overcome a lot of missteps made before they even picked up the game from DoW. I suspect once the new year rolls around, they're going to work on the race-specific deployment decks, and then really start putting out their own things, and at that time start putting the old sets back out as well. But when they're coming out with so many new games at once (Middle Earth Quest, Penny Arcade, Chaos in the Old World, etc), plus they've got the factory cranking out not one but 3 new expansions for BattleLore to be released in a 4 month period, their production capacity is a bit overloaded, and it will take them a while to get to those other things.

bcwMD, I think you really believe all of those things. I hope they turn out to be true. But I thought sure FFG wouldn't leave Game of Thrones players hanging without reprinting the cards from an expansion with a criminally short print run. I told many players that I had done demos for FFG at GenCon the year that the Game of Thrones CCG was first released and that these were good and fair people and they wouldn't do that to a newly established fan base. They trusted me because I trusted FFG. Just days later FFG announced a no reprint policy. To their credit, FFG had never said they would reprint and again to their word they never did reprint that set, though they did reprint cards from it.

Now I'm waiting for their word. Once FFG promises that everything that was ever out of stock for BattleLore will get a reprint, I will believe them. Then I will put BattleLore on my shopping list. Before then I will wait.

Thanks to all who have responded. I'm happy you're getting enjoyment out of what must be a wonderful game. Maybe someday I'll find out.

To Reprinting of the game: I have been in search for the 100 years war. Which I have not been able to find locally or anywhere online. My wife recently wrote FF after we acquired a copy out of a store in Australia. And their response was there were no current plans to reprint. So this makes me think reprints will be a while away. ( I honestly don't blame them for this decision. Think about it -- much time would need spending on manufacture contracts, reprinting design, etc. I also would expect that after time FF would reprint with the release of a big expantion or something)

As far as acquiring the game: I have definitely seen both the base set and some of the expantions all over the place. So there is definitely time to enter the game.

To FF nay sayers. I've honestly gotten tire of all the posts ans woes about support for the game. I agree with a previous poster. FF has a lot on their plate. And they have thus far delivered 3 possible expantions. Lets give them some credit as well as some time. (Though I am still hoping for a new army. Next year perhaps?? Elves would be awsome!!!)

netaaron said:

But I thought the big cheer among BattleLore fans when FFG bought BattleLore away from DOW was that there would be more support? Even with three new products coming yet this year, I believe the support is less. There's no scenario editor, no place to post new scenarios asnd productsd falling out of print with no announced reprint policy. My goal isn't to be an FFG naysayer, but this sounds like less support than DOW.

rickert said:

It's possible FFG needs to see some income from BL before doing some of this stuff. And hopefully with the long wait to get Heroes out the door they have gone through their transfer-pains, so I think it's very likely that once these expansions hit the stores and FFG sees how they do we'll see more online support and a more regular release schedule.

This topic of support has been addressed in MANY threads on this board. The bottom line is that FFG got the product line from DOW. They are working with Borg on expansions and have delivered 3 small expansions.

The http://www.battlelore.com website didn't actually cease to exist until maybe June, but was online at DOW's expense until that time.

FFG, DOW, etc. all need companies to manufacture the games they sell. FFG is probably going through some kind of RFP process to get quotes from existing and new companies to respect the experience the DOW selected vendors had while not excluding FFG's vendors who might be able to offer a better price.

On top of the business nuts and bolts, as many have alluded to, there could easily be a packaging strategy change. While it's unlikely the bsae game will get much of a change (aside from potentially being shipped in a "big box" so the parts don't all get squished) it is likely that the expansion strategy will change. Trying to figure out how to do that is a bit of a challenge because DOW so enmeshed their packaging schemes in their predatory pricing and expansion development philosophy.

I think we'd all love to see a big picture view of what FFG has in mind, but truth be told, they just finished up a busy convention season, they've got a TON of expansions in the works for all their products, and quite frankly I suspect they're taking some well deserved time off.

If I were a betting man I would think we'll be hearing much more from FFG about BL as the expansions get released.

kmedlinnc said:

And I'll be waiting and watching to see if cash in on that wager.

rickert said:

35 dollar bought me both goblin expansions from DoW, that is 36 figures (with a double of the goblin band thoug).

35 dollars to FFG will buy me 1 new creature, and two extra copies of old ones i already have.

To me FFG seems far more predatory in their pricing philosphy.

You are not alone Rickert, I really hope FFG does a run of the expansions. They new expansions are going to breath new life into this game. As others have mentioned the 100 years war is no where to be found.