I know there has been lots of created material for Talisman, but has anyone ever created an easy to follow formula to follow for the creation of various items such as Characters, Magic (Spells, Weapons, Charms, Trinkets), Alternative Endings and the like?
Creating Material for Talsiman
formula? I've made some stuff for balancing characters but what formula would you need for magic or endings?
I would love to see what you have done for characters, but for now, to answer your question., let's use the Armory and Magic Emporium as examples. In the Armory, you can buy a stiletto for 1g which adds 1 to your strength for battle(also, doesn't count against your object total, which is nice) but to buy the flail, will cost you 5 gold because you roll 2 dice for your attack. On the other side, the scroll which lets you get 1 spell at any time (once) only costs a gold, while the ability of the spell book to give you 1 spell every turn costs 5 gold. While I can kind of see the high cost for the flail, but the cost of the spell book seems a bit high. You see my dilemma? if I want to make things for my game, how do you know if an item is too powerful or not? Same deal for endings: how do you make an enemy or victory conditions that, while can be challenging, are not a guaranteed failure for any player to achieve or reach the crown of command where this boss is waiting?
Well I've made estimates for most abilities and looked into some statistics like the average draw, mostly for the base game, but those tools should provide the basis to evaluate most things in the game.
for the spellbook vs scroll; it's basically a matter of estimating how many spells, on average, it allows you to cast. that's your base price. You then modify that with other relevant factors: if creating a character and evaluating an ability vs high strength craft, you have to factor in that high stats let you benefit from more cards (monsters the enchanter etc), and you set some maximum number of turns you'll factor in; how many turns it would take for a chracter with that ability to catch up the guy with high stats. I've used 20, myself.
When buying an item it's a similar concern but you'll probably want to reduce the number of turns; by the time you have 6 gold the game on the right space you are likely already halfway through the game. 10 is a decent estimate for how many spells you can cast with the book i'd say though, and might even be low. You then have to factor in gold availability; it's not very likely that a character will have 10 gold so you reduce the cost somewhat to factor in the chance that a character would be able to afford it. All in all 6 gold is not a bad price and if anything it is too low in my estimation.
(on a sidenote both the flail and spellbook greatly change the balance of the game in favor of characters able to gain gold via abilities, might not imbalance but worth considering. The characters may need rebalancing if such a change is introduced.))
I get a little more technical in the link about some stuff, but mostly the above considerations exemplify what kind of formula you can make. Talisman is a game of chance, the odds greatly influenced by character behaviour, most of the game doesn't easily lend itself to computation. So what you do is you use your reason as much as math, you start somewhere, fx with stats and you apply values to those, always making sure that if you had X number of points to buy an ability you would be more or less 50/50 about what ability you'd want to buy at the prices you've set. That's really the only test, other than that when you can convert the ability into something similar fx + strength in battle and reroll of a dice in battle, then the gain pr point has to be comparable. Or if an ability allows you to steal an item and another to discard your first draw of adventure card, both abilities allow you to increase your chance of getting a good draw/result of your turn and you can more or less calculate how much the two should cost. (see the link)
Anyway, I'm not sure I see the feasability of balancing the whole game . It's a game of chance, there is supposed to be objects/spaces etc that are better than others. Balancing them out would just make the whole thing rather bland, and I don't see much gain, It wouldnt make the game more tactical, quite the opposite since the tactical element is mostly in evaluating what area of the map is currently most desirable to be wandering around in. It's only if objects or some other ability would be too easily gained you'd need to step in. Honestly I haven't played the city expansion but unless it allows you to gain tons of gold easily and to reliably land on these shops without depending on a roll, the prices given the objects seems fine. Powerful, probably cheaper than they should be, but balanced via the odds that you land on the shop at a time when you have the neccessary gold.
Balancing the characters, the starting point, always seemed very important to me, and to remove gamebreaking objects if any. But in a game of chance it can be very powerful wihout actually being gamebreaking. I haven't touched the draws for that reason. Drawing a crappy character is like playing poker but only be allowed to use 3 or 4 cards. You can still win with luck and skill but your odds are pretty ******. And since you dont get to draw a new character for a game/an hour+ it's rather frustrating. No single draw, adventure card or character seet should determine the game in such a way.
So when creating new cards, your safest bet is to stay on an average close to what the rest of the game has in terms of % of monster gold objects etc and in power, including % of useless vs powerful items. You can of course screw with the odds, but if you do so first determine how exactly you are influencing the game, then consider what it will mean for the gameexperience in general and specific characters in particular.
As for endings the possibilities are endless so not really something you can put on a formular. 3 things to consider:
It's preferable to have a strength and a craft route - or one that requires both stats.
if it involves lifeloss, the base game setting of ~2 life lost + some fights where you can be more powerful is best
setting a requirement for a very high stat, like a monster with 14 or 16 strength/craft changes the balance of the game towards characters that have continous effect/use throughout the game vs characters whose main strength lies in starting with high values.
Edited by RawsugarThanks for the advice. Now onto a bigger question: how does one go about making thier own region? I have seen cool ones on Talsiman island like Necropolois, Dragonlands and others, but I would like to make my own regions. I have 4 in mnd, a swamp region, an arctic region, a lost island(/fortress) and an underwater City. Can anyone give me some advice on how to make these regions?
make a map with some spaces to walk on, maybe a separate deck for the region? nothing to it really, other than hours;)
in the link on the page "adventure" you can see what kind of cards there are in the base game and some others and if you want to have a similar experience you can make a deck with similar ratios
most expansions have similar ratios with slightly more and stronger enemies, and often fewer items that give stat increases, move like normal and about 1/4 spaces that offer better options than drawing a card (like 2+ cards) and 1/6 that offer worse options (chasm)
you can of course depart quite a lot from the way the base game works though (like timescape), both in how you move, what you do or how often you draw a card vs roll a die to see what happens. but copyng the base game ensures succes, get creative and things can go wrong;)
Personally i'd prefer a new main map to yet another extra map
I gues the question is how to go about making the "map" to begin with? loke. how don you detemrone what dimensions for each sqaure, and how many squares per map?
Hi rakashan
I am also creating an expansion (nearly finished) which at the present time is only a card expansion. I do however want to create my own region and another deck (in due time). I have been pondering the question of how to make the map. What I think I am going to do is this:
I am going to get my artwork for the region sorted and then open photoshop up with azoic's Dragonlands board. I am going to see what dimension he has used for each space and then resize my artwork accordingly. I may even copy my artwork over his board (as his board is really impressive!)
Other thoughts I have had is that one piece of art may be sperated into 2 or more spaces; Magic the gathering artwork has proven amazing for the cards so far and I am even thinking it may serve as artwork for the board I am making
I look forward to seeing what you come up with mate
dimensions : just look at the board in base game and make something similar to that. basegame has varied sizes and i'd do the same, makes board more dynamic to look at.
number: depends what you want to do, the expensions have about 30 in a "snake" but you can do different things like a circle with paths or wutnot. really just your imagination that sets the bounds. but again; to make t easy you can just use already created material and customize. I havent found any good pics onlie of the maps, but if you take one with a good camera, open that in photoshop/paint, google pics of swamp or underwater city, insert those and change some of the texts you have a new map in a few hours
When I created the Dragon Realm for 2nd edition Talisman I used the map editor from Heroes of Might & Magic 3 and took a PC snap shot of the end result (the Print Screen button), then edited the rest with MS Paint.
I am not an artist, and I do not like ugly home made boards. This allowed me to make a board with nice graphics with out any artistic talent.
Hi rakashan
I am also creating an expansion (nearly finished) which at the present time is only a card expansion. I do however want to create my own region and another deck (in due time). I have been pondering the question of how to make the map. What I think I am going to do is this:
I am going to get my artwork for the region sorted and then open photoshop up with azoic's Dragonlands board. I am going to see what dimension he has used for each space and then resize my artwork accordingly. I may even copy my artwork over his board (as his board is really impressive!)
Other thoughts I have had is that one piece of art may be sperated into 2 or more spaces; Magic the gathering artwork has proven amazing for the cards so far and I am even thinking it may serve as artwork for the board I am making
I look forward to seeing what you come up with mate
Thanks! I have already gotten some swamp pictures, and found some possible supplements for a basis for the island fortress. For he arctic wasreland,my fiordns and I thought about it,nad then decided ,at least for cards, we'll use a double deck of the Frostmarch.You mentioned using the Dragonalds and Photoshop. I used photoshop to create some magic staves for Craft useres to seek in the city, but would that work? has anyone ever doen a Map space template?!
Well I've made estimates for most abilities and looked into some statistics like the average draw, mostly for the base game, but those tools should provide the basis to evaluate most things in the game.
for the spellbook vs scroll; it's basically a matter of estimating how many spells, on average, it allows you to cast. that's your base price. You then modify that with other relevant factors: if creating a character and evaluating an ability vs high strength craft, you have to factor in that high stats let you benefit from more cards (monsters the enchanter etc), and you set some maximum number of turns you'll factor in; how many turns it would take for a chracter with that ability to catch up the guy with high stats. I've used 20, myself.
When buying an item it's a similar concern but you'll probably want to reduce the number of turns; by the time you have 6 gold the game on the right space you are likely already halfway through the game. 10 is a decent estimate for how many spells you can cast with the book i'd say though, and might even be low. You then have to factor in gold availability; it's not very likely that a character will have 10 gold so you reduce the cost somewhat to factor in the chance that a character would be able to afford it. All in all 6 gold is not a bad price and if anything it is too low in my estimation.
(on a sidenote both the flail and spellbook greatly change the balance of the game in favor of characters able to gain gold via abilities, might not imbalance but worth considering. The characters may need rebalancing if such a change is introduced.))
I get a little more technical in the link about some stuff, but mostly the above considerations exemplify what kind of formula you can make. Talisman is a game of chance, the odds greatly influenced by character behaviour, most of the game doesn't easily lend itself to computation. So what you do is you use your reason as much as math, you start somewhere, fx with stats and you apply values to those, always making sure that if you had X number of points to buy an ability you would be more or less 50/50 about what ability you'd want to buy at the prices you've set. That's really the only test, other than that when you can convert the ability into something similar fx + strength in battle and reroll of a dice in battle, then the gain pr point has to be comparable. Or if an ability allows you to steal an item and another to discard your first draw of adventure card, both abilities allow you to increase your chance of getting a good draw/result of your turn and you can more or less calculate how much the two should cost. (see the link)
Anyway, I'm not sure I see the feasability of balancing the whole game . It's a game of chance, there is supposed to be objects/spaces etc that are better than others. Balancing them out would just make the whole thing rather bland, and I don't see much gain, It wouldnt make the game more tactical, quite the opposite since the tactical element is mostly in evaluating what area of the map is currently most desirable to be wandering around in. It's only if objects or some other ability would be too easily gained you'd need to step in. Honestly I haven't played the city expansion but unless it allows you to gain tons of gold easily and to reliably land on these shops without depending on a roll, the prices given the objects seems fine. Powerful, probably cheaper than they should be, but balanced via the odds that you land on the shop at a time when you have the neccessary gold.
Balancing the characters, the starting point, always seemed very important to me, and to remove gamebreaking objects if any. But in a game of chance it can be very powerful wihout actually being gamebreaking. I haven't touched the draws for that reason. Drawing a crappy character is like playing poker but only be allowed to use 3 or 4 cards. You can still win with luck and skill but your odds are pretty ******. And since you dont get to draw a new character for a game/an hour+ it's rather frustrating. No single draw, adventure card or character seet should determine the game in such a way.
So when creating new cards, your safest bet is to stay on an average close to what the rest of the game has in terms of % of monster gold objects etc and in power, including % of useless vs powerful items. You can of course screw with the odds, but if you do so first determine how exactly you are influencing the game, then consider what it will mean for the gameexperience in general and specific characters in particular.
As for endings the possibilities are endless so not really something you can put on a formular. 3 things to consider:
It's preferable to have a strength and a craft route - or one that requires both stats.
if it involves lifeloss, the base game setting of ~2 life lost + some fights where you can be more powerful is best
setting a requirement for a very high stat, like a monster with 14 or 16 strength/craft changes the balance of the game towards characters that have continous effect/use throughout the game vs characters whose main strength lies in starting with high values.
nice, thanks for the link
Ok, using Photoshop, I have made not only some new chars which might fit into Talisman, but I have even added a new category: superheroes. We added a new category which we dubbed-for lack of a better term-Power. The ones we have used so far have power rankings of 5 and the only place to recharge them is at the Runes or the Magic Emporium in the City. While most do have innate abilities, things like Flight, blasters, and some thrown weapons, cost one or two power points. since I don't know how to post the pictures on here and if people want out heroes take, for now, unless someone says otherwise, I'll just post some of the Talisman-esque chars. Your opinions on them would be welcome of course.
Fae Sorceress
Strength: 2
Craft: 4
Life: 4
Fate: 4
Gold: 1
Special abilities:
Starts with 3 spells-gains 1 every turn if craft allows & may keep 1 more than craft allows.
Staff of the deep ways: add 1 to Strength & Craft. At 6,8,10 and 2 craft, you may add 1 to the Strength or Craft value of the staff.
Every three craft-add 1 to fate. Will always have at least 1 fate. May replenish Fate at Runes.
May trade in trophies for Strength or Craft.
Will never be lost in the forest
At the start of the turn, may redraw from Fate deck if in the Woodlands.
Can not use non magic weapons or armor.
Start: Forest. Alignment: Neutral