So I was e ntertaining the thought…..What happens when the group loses their last ship.
Right now they PC have 2. Iconoclast and Turbulent but thats beside the point. Lets say they escape the death in the stars and are stranded on some planet. The planet in question really does not matter? With profit rating of around 50 they can not possibly just buy a new ship out right. What is left to do for a shipless Rogue Trader?
This actually happened to our group. We were sucked into the warp and hulked instead of planet-bound, but at the time we wouldn't have appreciated the difference. Our GM had us get rescued, but once our relief wore off it felt like a bit of a hand out.
So off the top of my head, they could make use of their astropath if they have one. Even without a choir they could maybe contact someone. Likewise they might be carrying some kind of equipment on the ship that could be modified into a distress beacon (void bait springs to mind). Failing everything, I'd have everyone involved burn a fate point for a rescue, since they're basically dead otherwise. Until then though, its a great chance to bust out the survival checks.
That's assuming a deserted planet though. If they're somewhere populated, they probably need to either scheme to steal a ship or hire themselves out to another captain until they can find an opportunity to grab a ship. This would also be a great way to mess with the players by forcing them to be in (severe) debt to the local mafia equivalent. The possibilities are near-endless (for the GM), and all of them should be terrible somehow: a second chance in the form of an entire ship should not come cheap.
Edited by Mirror CageMy team started out shipless. Well they were on a trader's ship but he was a jerk and it got taken out. They bought passage for themselves and about ten thousand remaining crewmen then went out on their own and had a grand adventure stealing a new ship. A ship that got stolen... Then they arm twisted the people who stole it into giving them a Loki for it.
Sadly once they HAD a ship, they lost interest in the game. Too much accounting or something.
LEt me correct the question. The getting out of a stiky situation is an adventure on its own and its all good and fun but what happens next? What is left for a rogue trader with no ship?
Several angles of approach exist:
Some of this depends on where they end up shipless.
Footfall is one thing, Port Wander is another, Stranded on Illusk or Burnscour is quite another.
Find out what the players want.
What does the RT charter say ?
Ways for poor people to get a new ship:
If they are stranded someplace shipless, they still have themselves. With all their skills and brains
they should end up masters of whatever burg they are trapped in/on.
Unless they are naked or in jail, competent players should find a way to better themselves.
And a good GM will leave clues and breadcrumbs leading to same.
Also the other question is their PF. Is it zero ? Hopefully not.
As long they have some, they can leverage more. A Vagabond is only 20.
Beggars can't be choosers.
The profit rating is around 50. And they will lose only ~5 when they lose a ship as their wealth are more in trade agreements and not in coffers full of gold.
I dont want to have a deliberate "adventure" where they lose the ship. But I want to be prepared when they do. So I was thinking that they will be able to buy ship by spending profit factor SP=PF. With the opportunity to have a price cut for a favour or two.
If they've curried favours with major groups such as the Imperial Navy or the Adeptus Mechanicus, your group could cash those favours in if they're in dire need. Still some horse-trading required, but they should at least get a hearing if they'd made the effort to make allies and contacts.
LEt me correct the question. The getting out of a stiky situation is an adventure on its own and its all good and fun but what happens next? What is left for a rogue trader with no ship?
Well, it depends on HOW they get out. If their Dynasty interests come save them, they sort of still have a ship, it came and got them. If they are saved by a passing good Samaritan/conniving competitor, they could wind up anywhere, and then they need to figure something out. I'd assume that they have to find an agency that "sells" ships, liquidate some serious assets, and buy a new one. With the book sort of assuming that you always build like you only have one ship, I assume that this can actually happen rather regularly. They'd either have to pay to be transported to a ship yard, or pay to have someone else bring it out to them, after deals are struck. Otherwise, I assume if you accept that a Rogue Trader can go "buy" another ship, it works just the same as that, while if they aren't so easy to come by, then they are sort of SOL, and not the system, the other thing.
If they get rescued, have this be the ship that shows up....
~~~~
FEO MARINARO TURRET RATING 1
JERICHO Class Pilgrim Vessel (Transport)
SHIELDS : Single Void Shield ARMOUR 12
SPEED 3 HULL INTEGRITY 50
MANOEUVRABILITY -15 DETECTION 5 SPACE AVAILABLE 45
POWER AVAIL 54 SPACE Left Over 0 POWER USED 51
Skill Test Modifiers Weapon Capacity Prow, Port, Stbd
CMD/Hit&Run 20,
CMD/Boarding Action 20,
CMD/Hit&Run (Def) 20,
CMD/Boarding Action (Def) 20,
Crew Disposition: Fanatic Crew Max 100% Crew Quality Competent (30)
Morale Max 93% Normal Ops(Morale)
Achievement Bonuses
Achievement Bonuses: Trade + 400 ; Crime + 100 ; Creed + 100 ; Military + 100
Essential Components
Lathe Pattern (Delta) , Markov 1 Warp Engine (T,R,F) , Gellar Field, Commerce Bridge (T) ,
Ancient Life Sustainer (Archeotech) (Reduce Non-Combat Crew Losses by 1) ,
M-100 Auger Array , Pressed Crew Quarters
Supplemental Components
Main Cargo Hold x2, Luxury Passenger Quarters, Barracks,
Storm Troopers [x2HI Dmg H&R Attacks; +1d5Dam to Crew in DEF Boarding Actions],
Salvage Systems, Small Craft Repair Deck,
Defensive Countermeasures (1 Use; Lasts 1d5+1 ST; -20 BS to attack ship, -30 for Torpedoes),
Fire Suppression System (1 User per ST; Diff-10 Tech-Use to extinguish 1 component on Fire),
Complications / Past Histories
Stoic (Endeavour Profit Factor -1, If component DMG/unpowered roll 1d10, on >=7 ignore result),
Turbulent Past (+20 Navigator Clan, -20 Sisters-Ecclesia. on all Social Tests)
Weapons
Mezoa Lance Weapon [strength: 1, Damage:1d10+5, Crit Rating: 4, Range: 4] Location: PROW
~~~~
Edited by EgyptoidWrath Umboldt is sort of a Rogue Trader without a ship. Assuming they make their way back to a decent port, they would still eke out a very comfortable living if they're willing to license out their Rogue Trader warrant to various endeavours.
"This archeotech dig has been approved by Rogue Trader Jequin Hos and any who tresspass against it will go against the Holy Writ of Terra" carries a little more weight than "We killed everyone who could prove we didn't see it first. Go away."
Even without a ship they could probably enter into a business relationship with someone who does, until they make enough money to buy a new ship, or lead a successful mutiny against the existing captain and take theirs.
Find a free captain looking for a more adventurous life. Hire them to ferry you around on endeavors until you can manage to get your own ship.
I’d like to point out a different aspect to this issue..
The fluff strongly suggests that ships are extremely rare. They are practically artifacts in their own right, they take centuries to build and harbour rare, barely understood technology. In effect, they are priceless.
So why do people think stealing one would be easy? Because if it was, wouldn’t everyone seeking a better life try it? Having captain Jack climb up the anchor cable and then sail it off single-handedly only works in fantasy movies.
In 40k, no captain/RT would “hire” a shipless RT and several thousand of his crew. That would be asking for problems, even if the shipless RT didn’t have grand theft voidship on the mind. And if they were hired for some reason, the crew would likely be treated as impressed crew. Impressed crew are usually kept in what amounts to slave quarters and heavily guarded to prevent uprisings. Most ships have strong countermeasures against boarding and uprisings….And then there is the fact that most voidships have crews of tens of thousands. Unless their captain/RT is really nasty, they will feel loyalty towards him or the RT house. They won’t be that easily subdued by a another RT and a few of his henchmen. And then you have the ship’s specialists. A navigator has a special deal with the RT house. He won’t just accept a thief as his new master. Same with the tech-priests. They serve aboard as part of intricate deals with the owner of the ship. They won’t just switch their allegiance.
And even if a shipless RT manages to steal a voidship, the ship’s owners will never let it stand. They will pursue the thief in any and all ways open to them, from trying to get the navy involved, sending out their own fleet, setting a bounty or pursuing the thief in courts….which means the thieving RT will have great difficulty if they ever step foot back into the imperium. And RT’s are generally required to return to the imperium to give an accounting (and sell their loot).
The only feasible way IMO to get a ship is call in favours and make a lot of promises to organisations which can provide the shipless RT with a new ship. Offer to do something no other will do if the RT can keep the ship afterwards.
Find a free captain looking for a more adventurous life. Hire them to ferry you around on endeavors until you can manage to get your own ship.
Are free captains allowed to leave the imperium? I thought they are only 'free' in the sense that they are allowed to roam free in a sector unlike chartist captains who have to keep to a fixed route. I don't think they are allowed to leave imperial space or they'd be equal to RT's.
I’d like to point out a different aspect to this issue..
The fluff strongly suggests that ships are extremely rare. They are practically artifacts in their own right, they take centuries to build and harbour rare, barely understood technology. In effect, they are priceless.
So why do people think stealing one would be easy? Because if it was, wouldn’t everyone seeking a better life try it? Having captain Jack climb up the anchor cable and then sail it off single-handedly only works in fantasy movies.
In 40k, no captain/RT would “hire” a shipless RT and several thousand of his crew. That would be asking for problems, even if the shipless RT didn’t have grand theft voidship on the mind. And if they were hired for some reason, the crew would likely be treated as impressed crew. Impressed crew are usually kept in what amounts to slave quarters and heavily guarded to prevent uprisings. Most ships have strong countermeasures against boarding and uprisings….And then there is the fact that most voidships have crews of tens of thousands. Unless their captain/RT is really nasty, they will feel loyalty towards him or the RT house. They won’t be that easily subdued by a another RT and a few of his henchmen. And then you have the ship’s specialists. A navigator has a special deal with the RT house. He won’t just accept a thief as his new master. Same with the tech-priests. They serve aboard as part of intricate deals with the owner of the ship. They won’t just switch their allegiance.
And even if a shipless RT manages to steal a voidship, the ship’s owners will never let it stand. They will pursue the thief in any and all ways open to them, from trying to get the navy involved, sending out their own fleet, setting a bounty or pursuing the thief in courts….which means the thieving RT will have great difficulty if they ever step foot back into the imperium. And RT’s are generally required to return to the imperium to give an accounting (and sell their loot).
The only feasible way IMO to get a ship is call in favours and make a lot of promises to organisations which can provide the shipless RT with a new ship. Offer to do something no other will do if the RT can keep the ship afterwards.
What about if the rogue trader and command crew don't announce themselves as such? Just another bunch of strong backs - until they lead a revolt and take the ship. RT characters are supposed to be larger than life and crazy competent so it's something some groups could pull off.
" The fluff strongly suggests that ships are extremely rare. They are practically artifacts in their own right, they take centuries to build and harbour rare, barely understood technology. In effect, they are priceless."
meh. I always divide 40k fluff by 10.
Only ⅒ as grim, & only ⅒ as dark as stated. History is written by the victors, and they seem to exaggerate.
Given the number of lost hulks in the modules, and at the rate ships fall into the maelstrom
at Processional, someones' cranking them out.
Back on Topic...
Has the OP thought out various scenarios? seems like real life.
If my car breaks down at the grocery store, that's one thing,
but if it dies halfway to Winnipeg, that's another kettle of fish.
There is also impersonation of a ship owner. Con games, identity theft, etc. All made easier if the real owner is six feet under.
Edited by DecessorWhat about if the rogue trader and command crew don't announce themselves as such? Just another bunch of strong backs - until they lead a revolt and take the ship. RT characters are supposed to be larger than life and crazy competent so it's something some groups could pull off.
Depends on the GM, but actually outright stealing the ship would be tricky. You'd definitely need an Explorator or Tech-Heretic to do so, and you'd also need to arm yourselves to resist the mutineers unless you somehow convince security forces that a bunch of nobodies can do a better job than the captain who knows the destruct codes and where the "Vent All The Atmosphere" button is.
Find a free captain looking for a more adventurous life. Hire them to ferry you around on endeavors until you can manage to get your own ship.
Are free captains allowed to leave the imperium? I thought they are only 'free' in the sense that they are allowed to roam free in a sector unlike chartist captains who have to keep to a fixed route. I don't think they are allowed to leave imperial space or they'd be equal to RT's.
Under their own authority, yes, they can only go on established routes or within imperial space. (I've always assumed free traders are the ones doing the gruntwork carrying of those highly profitable trade routes in the expanse, once a RT makes it an 'official' trade route)
The great thing here is they wouldn't be going under their own authority - they'd be going out into the unknown under a Rogue Trader's authority, the very Rogue Trader occupying the luxury quarters near the bridge, and if anyone has a problem with that they can take it up with the Rogue Trader.
So why do people think stealing one would be easy? Because if it was, wouldn’t everyone seeking a better life try it? Having captain Jack climb up the anchor cable and then sail it off single-handedly only works in fantasy movies.
Who said it's be easy? Who says it wouldn't be easier for RTs than anyone else. When you look at their stats, they're some of the best humanity has to offer. When you look at the sorta default tone the game is considered to have, which can be seen by checking out fluff text and the way the published adventures all seem to be structured. They're all set up as high adventure. Treasure hunts on exotic places, dueling bitter rivals, organizing slave uprisings on a planetary scale, activating mysterious and dangerous artifacts, actively antagonizing larger factions who have more resources.
That's by no means to say that's how anyone has to play the game. If you wanted to have them leading a successful mutiny as an afterthought or a single session or the focus of the campaign. It's all about the tone of your game, and what you want to do with it. Some people let RTs more or less give RTs immunity in the eyes of the law, and then just let them deal with the people who are personally pissed with them as a fun side adventure(ooh another hitsquad, who'd we piss off this time). Some play it a bit more grounded and gritty. To each their own.
To the op. Beg, borrow or steal. They could if they had the PF just buy another junker eventually. They could plan a major score to be able to afford one, they could steal one somehow. They could work with some nobles or free captains, where they split the related PFs from their adventures for a time. They could just call in every big favor they have, depending on your game and how you run it that might be enough. In some people's game calling in a favor can get a hive planet reduced to rubble. There's a bunch of options you've got.
Seems like an Agree to disagree then..
I feel that making it relatively easy to steal a voidship because RT devalues the setting. Voidships are meant to be rare, barely understood vessels who travel witchspace by a combination of arcane devices and faith. They are manned by literally tens of thousands of crew members who run from impressed slaves shackled to their machinery to inbred families who have never set foot on a planet making up guilds and sub guilds with numerous weird traditions while mutated monsters roam the crawlways.....
By letting some clowns walk in and take the ship as an afterthought just makes ships interchangeable. Lose one, grab the next. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
That's not to say it can't be done but stealing a ship should be a (mini) campaign in and of itself. With the captain of the vessel having numerous 'defence layers' (physical barriers, gene authentication barriers, gene coded sentry guns, convincing the enginseers to switch allegiance, let your imagination run wild etc.) against exactly this thing happening which each have to be neutralized by the RT and his posse.
And once the ship or rather bridge and engine room have in fact been taken, maybe some areas of the ship will still 'ruled' by the original crew still loyal to their captain months or years later. With them undertaking raids regularly as they steal food etc.
Now that would make the new ship stand out, wouldn't it?
I don't want to just disagree, because I also feel that ships would be, and SHOULD be hard to take from their masters, but it doesn't always mesh well with the setting, where numerous NPC Rogue Traders are often described as terrible a-holes, who will willingly, even blatantly, open fire on your ship, without provocation, and then take what spoils they will, maybe even the whole ship, maybe try to kill you (the Rogue Trader), and end your dynasty, with little in the way of consequences. Winterscale is a massive knob with massive power. I'd say you'd have to attract his gaze first, but he'd crush you, for fun. Chorda? Hahahaha. Saul might buy your ship fairly. Fel is smart about it, but he's probably taken shots at you before. Carpet-bombing is Bastille's answer to most things; excessive use of brute force. Scourge might do the same, with less force to bear. These are just some Rogue Traders the series has given us, without the redonkulous tools players milking the system might build, even PLAY, and they don't seem concerned with the authorities, which always makes me question when others have said "you can't just blast the Colossus , "let Bastille escape", claim the ship, and maybe deal with him later, permanently." He'd do most of that to you, and as an NPC, possibly without consequence?
On a different level, I often feel that the Captain of one of these vessels, the Aiofe Armengardes of the Expanse not withstanding, might keep themselves separate from the dregs of their crew. The President may be my Commander and Chief, or the Queen of England my absolute monarch, were I to live in Great Britain (sorry Britain, if I got that one wrong), but I've never met them, and I don't plan to. Obama might be visiting my state within a few weeks, maybe two hours away from where I live, but I'm not driving to go meet him, see him, even spit at his car, after he's not near it. In this sort of setup, many crews might not care who their Captain is, or even entirely know, much like most people will never meet a Lord of Terra (pick a seat, no one knows who they are) so long as the ship remains functioning. The Navigators and the AdMech may well have contracts with Bastille, but I often think they more care about the ship than the schmoe pointing it places, and if you are a better person than him, they might even welcome the change. In these various ways, the crew might not be as tricky to deal with as you make out; it depends upon their relationship with the leadership aboard. Feckward sneaks spies aboard your ship? No one else seemed to notice, and immediately alert you, and those spies were sabotage-capable enough to DAMAGE your ship, from inside, maybe even stop it, temporarily. Also, depending on who you are, and know, you maybe SHOULD be able to take other ships. I'm not a maritime expert, but I'm pretty sure that's why France and England actually gave out Letters of Marque, or whatever they were, and basically said "go pira...um privateer against our enemies for us." It's also a good way to resupply, if you already press-gang slaves into your crew, as it is. Blast the Colossus , maybe take it under your benefactor's name, maybe just board, round up some crew you need, take some portable stuff, and eat his food for a while, and leave him adrift. You're a jerk at that point, but many Rogue Traders are, and he'd probably do it to you, too, given the chance, or just hulk your hull, and walk away, because he's portrayed as that, personality-wise.
All that BS said, I still do support a setting where ships and worlds aren't as easy to take as the words out of my mouth are to say, and I prefer the image/illusion of big powers having to work together, or tolerate each other, sort of like Apple executives don't hire hitmen to assassinate Microsoft executives, though the system in RT, in my opinion, often fails to illustrate this need, beyond saying the players need to behave, if they want their game to continue running. Winterscale hasn't assassinated Chorda, or vice versa, though I suspect both are trying, but this doesn't stop many militant RTs from acting like it's just another, and the preferable, option to deal with little upstart bothers, like you (the players).
I'm in favour of players having lots of options to legally or illegally gain ships but there should be work and/or debts involved. The only reasons they have a serious chance of pulling off any method are their extranormal skills or reputation of the warrant. A stolen ship might need serious work to purge of dissident elements and to refit it to appear as something else.
Seizing a ship should not be trivial and keeping a seized ship should not be trivial. But they should not be impossible either.
My Group lost their ship, resulting in the RT "pressing" a rival factions ship into the emperor's service then liquidating all "questionable" personnel - which had many complications which flavored their sessions aboard the vessel in thos following game sessions, eventually they had to trick crew in shore leave while on that same world taking on new tech-use savvy crew...
It got real heavy handed real quick, Seneschal had his hand in eliminating the occupants of the Astropathic Pod (then wondered what was the big deal afterwards, lets just get another one lol).
There was a Warp Event that Gaslighted the players and crew into thinking all the Women on board suddenly became pregnant (all gross with vericose veins on their bellies and such); the Arch-Militant was having none of it and had them cremated alive in the ship's lower holds...
Thats not including the initial action that took the ship when they boarded it while it was at port in Footfall - long sotry short the PCs got to the bridge, fought some of the gray-beard senior officers there - then had the RT voxcast in his pressment of the ship and its crew, surprising the standing NPC Captain at that time took advantage and he himself got rid of a few subversives he never liked as well, somewhat cementing his relationship with the PCs, go figure.
There's still more to consider;
What about that "faction" they took the ship from - they were hinted as being independent-thinkers - not above attacking an loyal RT of the Emperor, so theres that LOL...
Let me start out by stating that every GM should run his game the way he feels. I´m just offering my take on a situation.
As such, I don´t believe RT´s will rather shoot at a fellow RT than look at him. Sure, they are all terribly unstable characters who face little legal repurcussion for their deeds. But even outright psycho´s don´t kill everyone they encounter. Nor do billionnaire´s who can buy their way out of most situations. And lack of legal repurcussions doesn't mean no repurcussion at all!
IMO, most RT are extremely calculating personalities. Once they have decided upon a course of action, they will likely pursue it with outmost ruthlessness but I firmly believe there´s a method to their madness. Obviously, this applies to the succesfull ones. The truly deranged madmen tend to meet bad ends sooner than later. For example, if Winterscale kills every other RT he encounters, wouldn´t the other RT's just try to off him themselves instead? There's a difference between knowing you might get killed or knowing you are going to get killed no matter what you do....That focuses the mind wonderfully :-)
No, what rules RT's IMO is the balance of power thing which ruled much of Europe for the majority of its existence. RT's keep a close eye on each other and work actively to keep each other in check. If the balance tilts, major upheavel follows until things settle down again.
So what do weaker RT's do? The same as weaker nations did...either they try to stay below the radar, make an alliance with a stronger RT or form some kind of league with fellow weaker RT's so they are as strong.
So if a powerful RT messes with all weak ones he encounters without any cause , the weak ones band together and take him out....for their own protection. And the powerful RT knows this so bullying others will be kept in check.....
That doesn't mean everyone gets along and peace reigns sublime. Just like the cold war, RT's are trying to weaken opposing alliances, perhaps seduce a weaker RT to join their side, use proxies to hurt opponents (preferably deniable proxies), perform the occasional show of force to maintain a credible deterrence etc.
The trick is to hurt the other without it escalating to full scale war. In our time, that would have led to nuclear holocaust. For RT's, that means heavy expenditure and even if victorious, you might be sufficiently weakened that a third party may come along and finish you....
Yeah these are all different valid interpretations of what's in the books. You have competing, mostly violent, occasionally psychotic rogue traders all jockeying for power, but not constantly dropping like flies.
I typically get this across as most of them aren't in full scale wars. The ones that are either small enough in scale or end quickly enough to not be interfering much with others. That burning a planet to the ground, even if you know where it is, isn't easy. Encounters can be slow simmering, methodical hunts to the edge of the expanse. Or they can be random meetings at a bar in Port Wander that suddenly become a blood bath that the arbiters are loathe to get involved in even after the smoke clears. I try to get across that it's a tense setting where violence is always just underneath the surface, but is not a constant bloodbath with massive turnover. Something where the idea of Chorda and Winterscale beefing for decades and not being dead makes sense, but my RTs can still expect to have plasma guns whipped out if they piss someone off. Tales of high adventure of bloody murder and (rolls and fate points permitting) last second escapes. But that's just what works for me.
When it comes to snatching up a ship. I would likely have getting the ship be part of, if not a separate smallish adventure which could take anywhere from 90 minutes to 10 hours depending on the players. They'd have to find one, case it, do the setup, execute the plan, and deal with immediate and long lasting backlash. Because of the tone of my adventures, I'd likely represent it as a herculean task that they are able to get through easily enough due to a combination of their incredible skills, and a bit of luck. Sorta like how the hero in an action adventure is usually going to succeed at something ridiculous but only barely, in a way to make the audience worried for a second and think he's cool when he wins.
Through that lenses it sounds like it's more a matter of tone. I wouldn't play it out as a ship just being giftwrapped to them in a 5 minute scene after 2 or 3 rolls, but I wouldn't be too upset if a GM I was playing with did because we were collectively more interested in getting back to another plot. Different strokes.