Is this still the designated place for honest feedback?

I really enjoy Wild Cherry Pepsi - possibly more than Cherry Coke.

Why yes it is...beer is better than coke or pepsi due to its all natural ingredients.

Mmmmmm beer.

Is this still the designated place for honest feedback?

I really enjoy Wild Cherry Pepsi - possibly more than Cherry Coke.

Why yes it is...beer is better than coke or pepsi due to its all natural ingredients.

I feel as though this thread has found its purpose in life. Rather like 'The Art of Bullying Someone' - remember that one?

it's a change of subject, not bullying.

Maybe if the OP would have been open minded and not attacked the game and then not paid attention to what others were saying it would have been a very good thread on subject.

But the OP threw his credentials but lost credibility on the way he did it.

The Original Trilogy had a grand total of 3 Jedi in the films and at most only 2 active in 2 of the films, so IMO Star Wars was not only about Jedi, it was about the fringe, and the rebellion the most.

[Note: I cannot get the "Quote" feature to work today. Apologies to all for not having this specific post in its proper context.]

To DanteRotterdam and the other five people who liked his (allegedly respectful) post?

BS.

Reread all of my original musings on "Rebels." They were extremely critical of "Rebels" in particular (not the Star Wars franchise, as you claim). And I never once attacked anyone for not liking the series.

In fact, I clearly recall typing things along the lines of "different strokes for different folks."

If you took offense? Then that is squarely upon your shoulders.

Those who called me "troll," "child," "idiot," and "douchebag" did so because my opinion differed from their own. And they simply could not think of any other retort to my criticisms than "well, Harlock999, you're a stupid-head!!! Troll alert!!!"

I will admit that my misgivings about the series first saw light in the thread where a group of folks were working on a fan-made sourcebook. And while I praised those people for their ingenuity and creativity, I still felt bad about my attack on the show in *that* thread ... so soon took my thoughts to a "Rebels"-focused thread.

So, other than that *possible* first mistep, I was indeed a victim on these boards. Of intolerance. And ridiculous trigger-happy Internet jackassery.

There's no need for a repeat performance with another target.

it's a change of subject, not bullying.

The Art of Bullying was another nonsense thread a month or two back that got repurposed to something actually interesting and fun.

I had loads of fun in SWG in the two places where in my opinion the game really shone--roleplaying and crafting.

This.

The group combat I did not like at all. I did like the immersive world and endless variety of 'stuff'.

My favorite part was my weapons shop on Tatooine. You walked it and met my droid that you could make purchases from. The back rooms locked to visitors included my bedroom, storage closet, and workbenches for crafting new weapons.

The front room nearby the droid was the showcase area with examples of every weapon I had for sale mounted to the walls.

Osprey, it's not the responsibility of every poster to approach everything with an open mind. Geezus... That's why we have opinions. Sometimes, we've already gone through the evidence and arrived at our own personal conclusions.

Again, please understand I DO NOT agree with "Professor Walsh."

But...

Based on his own experiences with Star Wars and the EU? And considering the state of the franchise since the 90s? It comes as no surprise to find people who fully believe Star Wars without Jedi (or the Force) is not Star Wars.

The credibility of "Professor Walsh" is not an issue; he simply cannot place himself in the viewpoint of someone older (like me) who grew up with the original trilogy at a time when Luke's journey was simply the primary story thread of those films. As opposed to Jedi being the sole reason for any story set in the Star Wars universe.

I never played Galaxies all that much - I think I played my 30 free days, went "Man this is crap!" and bailed. Sony occasionally sends me "Come play our games!" mail from time to time.

My first serious MMORPG was City of Heroes - a game less concerned with grinding levels as it was delivering a kick ass Superhero experience. Beyond that, I played Old Republic for 6 months - a game that had LOADS of potential and is fun as hell, but then when I had all of my character names taken away twice from server merges, I gave up. I'd play, but the free to play model is so hamstrung, I can't stand it - and there's no way I'm paying for a game that likes to screw my characters like that.

So I'm MMORPG free at the moment.

Ha. Me too, Desslok.

I kicked around as Bushido Brother for several months on "City of Heroes" - the only MMORPG I could stand. And even then, I lost interest around month # 4 or 5...

Ah City of Heroes how I miss you. Best MMORPG online as far as I'm concerned. I willingly lost many an hour/day/week on that one.

As a roleplayer and 'Socializer' (according to that Bartle thing), I adored SWG in the beginning. I was an Entertainer, which was fun as hell. Travelling around, meeting friendly people, and having a great time. I was a Pistoleer on the side, so once I'd made friends with some fun folks, we'd all go out and shoot stuff for giggles.

Then the dreaded holocrons dropped, and the grinding began. Suddenly, I couldn't even dance in a cantina without being surrounded by 10,000 grinders, AFK, macroing away. It was lonely and depressing. I'll always remember SWG as a real gaming tragedy that deserved so much better.

As far as honest feedback goes, honestly, some of my favourite feedback is in 'Creep' by Radiohead. Going into the second chorus: you know, Jon Greenwood does his 'chuk-chuk' thing on the guitar, and if you listen closely, you can hear the feedback winding up, getting ready to split your ears. Then the chorus explodes, and you're saved from it and elevated into a sea of noise.

it's a change of subject, not bullying.

The Art of Bullying was another nonsense thread a month or two back that got repurposed to something actually interesting and fun.

Gotcha.

Osprey, it's not the responsibility of every poster to approach everything with an open mind. Geezus... That's why we have opinions. Sometimes, we've already gone through the evidence and arrived at our own personal conclusions.

Again, please understand I DO NOT agree with "Professor Walsh."

But...

Based on his own experiences with Star Wars and the EU? And considering the state of the franchise since the 90s? It comes as no surprise to find people who fully believe Star Wars without Jedi (or the Force) is not Star Wars.

The credibility of "Professor Walsh" is not an issue; he simply cannot place himself in the viewpoint of someone older (like me) who grew up with the original trilogy at a time when Luke's journey was simply the primary story thread of those films. As opposed to Jedi being the sole reason for any story set in the Star Wars universe.

WTF you babbling about in your last 2 posts?

As far as open mindedness is concerned that's your opinion, if you aren't open minded then it is never going to turn into a discussion and you are a complainer...oh I'm sorry, in forum speak a troll.

A troll, in my understanding, is someone who does not wish to engage in any kind of discussion. They simply post things like "[this] sucks!" and "if you like [this], then you are stupid!" The goal, it seems, is to derail any conversation or debate. Or just to start trouble.

The idea of a truly neutral position? And utter open-mindedness? It does not exist. We all have our opinions. However, the ability to state an opinion, welcome feedback, and engage in discussion that could ... perhaps? ... lead to either a change in attitudes and opinions (of any and all engaging parties)? That's normal adult behavior.

Now, from what I have witnessed? While "Walsh" has indeed stuck to his guns, he has tried to respond as soundly as he can to people's criticisms of his viewpoint.

Those of you crying "you're sad" or "you're just a troll" are indeed trolls of your own making.

This thread was less about "Hey, folks, try to change my mind" and more about "Here's my stance. Don't you agree based on the evidence?"

As far as honest feedback goes, honestly, some of my favourite feedback is in 'Creep' by Radiohead. Going into the second chorus: you know, Jon Greenwood does his 'chuk-chuk' thing on the guitar, and if you listen closely, you can hear the feedback winding up, getting ready to split your ears. Then the chorus explodes, and you're saved from it and elevated into a sea of noise.

Ok. I laughed. Hard.

A troll, in my understanding, is someone who does not wish to engage in any kind of discussion. They simply post things like "[this] sucks!" and "if you like [this], then you are stupid!" The goal, it seems, is to derail any conversation or debate. Or just to start trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I feel confident that the original poster qualifies under this definition, especially when you consider the Beginner Game boxed set was released on December 17, 2012 and the core rules released on July 5, 2013 (per Wikipedia). If this post were dated August 2013 or some-such (immediately after the core rules hit the shelves) - fine. But Edge is a well established, well regarded system that's already been around long enough that Age of Rebellion is out and Force and Destiny is in beta. This thread is akin to me creating "Honest Feedback about the Original Trilogy - Warning, It's Not Good'.

While the OP is certainly entitled to any opinion he has - the thread (especially considering the provocative title) is little more than needless click bait.

A troll, in my understanding, is someone who does not wish to engage in any kind of discussion. They simply post things like "[this] sucks!" and "if you like [this], then you are stupid!" The goal, it seems, is to derail any conversation or debate. Or just to start trouble.

The idea of a truly neutral position? And utter open-mindedness? It does not exist. We all have our opinions. However, the ability to state an opinion, welcome feedback, and engage in discussion that could ... perhaps? ... lead to either a change in attitudes and opinions (of any engaging parties)? That's normal adult behavior.

Now, from what I have witnessed? While "Walsh" has indeed stuck to his guns, he has tried to respond as soundly as he can to people's criticisms of his viewpoint. And nothing anyone has brought up has altered his view (even if we believe it should).

Those of you crying "you're sad" or "you're just a troll" are indeed trolls of your own making.

To have a discussion you have to be open minded and not take offense to what is being said. Does that mean utterly open minded? Nope it sure doesn't, and understanding that stating your opinion in a public forum and not expecting a response is not open minded at all. State your side, others state their side and an understanding of both sides is being open minded. Complaining to complain and having valid responses that you don't even look at or address is complaining and trolling or inflaming a situation.

Professor Walsh should understand this being a professor.

"Walsh" is looking at this from the viewpoint of the Star Wars saga as a whole. And honestly, it's hard to fault him.

Those of us who disagree are basing our thoughts primarily on the little material that arrived before the flood of new canon in the 90s.

Again, I DO NOT agree with him. But "Walsh" is not complaining to complain. He is simply voicing his disappointment with the EotE RPG based on his own personal views of what Star Wars should be.

Sorry, while I will always defend someone's right to an opinion, if one expresses their opinion knowing full well it's going to start controversy and an argument, then they aren't entitled to bemoan that result. He was pushing buttons and he knew it.

In regards to his other OP assertion about having to exert effort to discover the lack of Force rules in EoE, that isn't a valid gripe or opinion, that's just a full diaper imo.

Wow, this entire community is ultra-sensitive, it seems...

Curious... Why would a thread posting disappointment in a product line that does not include Jedi - with tons of bulleted reasons why the OP is disappointed - be considered something that would start "pushing buttons?"

I mean, OF COURSE, some of us are going to disagree! Isn't that the point of a community?

Again, maybe I'm just used to more opinionated posters on the various comicbook sites...

Blaked, your Wiki entry still doesn't make me believe "Walsh" is a troll. I do believe he created a thread that was on-topic, not extraneous, and yet definitely controversial. What's the problem? That he disagrees with you?

And who cares about timing? If I just got around to reading Frank Miller's Daredevil run, then shouldn't I have the right to start a thread at a comics site titled "I just read Miller's DD ... and didn't like it" ...? I would assume, based on the critical acclaim Miller's won with that work, I'd garner a TON of arguments that Miller's DD was brilliant, but maybe a few others that found the whole thing overrated. Voila! Discussion.

Force rules were included, just not in EoE. He is whining about something that actually doesn't exist, because Force rules and Jedi are getting a whole CRB. The information about that fact was readily accessible to anyone with half a wit, so whining about it is invalid for those two reasons. So if he is dumb as a bowl of pudding I would excuse him, but he isn't.

So that leads to intentionally posting something that is both invalid, and inflammatory in a place with ardent fans. When people to one degree or another point that out, and it's clear the intent on his part was to just incite something, then if the shoe fits....

"Walsh" is looking at this from the viewpoint of the Star Wars saga as a whole. And honestly, it's hard to fault him.

Those of us who disagree are basing our thoughts primarily on the little material that arrived before the flood of new canon in the 90s.

Again, I DO NOT agree with him. But "Walsh" is not complaining to complain. He is simply voicing his disappointment with the EotE RPG based on his own personal views of what Star Wars should be.

Ah, but other people, who have talked to the Devs and did their research stated why the Devs did what they did with the game. There were Betas for the core books for a reason, so we as players could have a say or vote in what went into those books.

Also, purchasing a product without doing research and complaining about your mistake as if it was someone else's is trolling. That's what Walsh did. I don't agree with him or all the statements that others have made, but the ones that have spoke to Devs and made that known were shut down by Walsh. He trolled, I'm sorry but he did.

I feel confident that the original poster qualifies under this definition, especially when you consider the Beginner Game boxed set was released on December 17, 2012 and the core rules released on July 5, 2013 (per Wikipedia).

Wow, is that all? Feels like Edge has been out longer.

It's called context. This is specifically an EotE forum, which means it is populated by EotE players and fans. It would be analogous to me going to a Green Bay Packers forum and posting 'that Aaron Rodgers guy - what an overrated bum!'. It has nothing to do with being 'on topic' or 'extraneous' or not. It simply provides little/nothing to discussion. This system has been out for years and has been played by many, reviewed by many. The consensus is it's a good system, and quite good for Star Wars (compared to D20 or Saga Edition).

While he's fully entitled to whatever opinion he wishes to have, I see no purpose in the creation of this thread beyond those of the internet troll (stir up things, argue with people, etc). I don't feel the OP is going to sway any players that he is 'right' and the system is poor or whatever argument you are trying to make. (especially considering everyone who understands the initial design philosophy/time frame knows why there are no Jedi in the system, and why Force and Destiny exists).

Wow, this entire community is ultra-sensitive, it seems...

Curious... Why would a thread posting disappointment in a product line that does not include Jedi - with tons of bulleted reasons why the OP is disappointed - be considered something that would start "pushing buttons?"

I mean, OF COURSE, some of us are going to disagree! Isn't that the point of a community?

Again, maybe I'm just used to more opinionated posters on the various comicbook sites...

Blaked, your Wiki entry still doesn't make me believe "Walsh" is a troll. I do believe he created a thread that was on-topic, not extraneous, and yet definitely controversial. What's the problem? That he disagrees with you?

And who cares about timing? If I just got around to reading Frank Miller's Daredevil run, then shouldn't I have the right to start a thread at a comics site titled "I just read Miller's DD ... and didn't like it" ...? (I would assume I'd probably garner a ton of arguments that Miller's DD was brilliant and maybe a few others who found the whole thing overrated.)

Research WOULD have told him to wait for F&D. A question would have told him to wait for F&D, common sense as to the time line of this game, would have told him Jedi are almost nonexistent. If the guy is a professor and I was going to college where he teaches at, I would reconsider taking any of his classes.