This isn't a complaint thread...

Well, it is, but it isn't complaining to complain.

This is me giving my honest appraisal of the game Edge of the Empire.

Let me get my asbestos suit on... Okay... Here we go...

I Don't like Edge of the Empire... Edge of the Empire isn't a bad game and I really want to like it... But I can't.

As a game it isn't, at the core, a bad game. The mechanics are good, the system is clean, the generalities work really well. It does so many things right... But... It isn't Star Wars.

At the core, that is my problem, it doesn't feel, to me, like Star Wars.

I bought the book... It isn't the system at the core, but it feels like someone who generally doesn't understand Star Wars wrote it.

I know, I know, a huge contingent of fans are big on the "Jedi Hunter" and a huge contingent of fans love the Mandalorians because they kill Jedi, and a huge contingent of fans think Luke Skywalker and all Jedi suck and that Han Solo, Boba Fett, and their crew are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I got nothing against Mandalorians, or Han Solo, I love those guys.

However...

Star Wars, at the core... Is about Jedi.

I'll brace for the hatred and recoil from that one.

Okay, lets continue on...

Now, I've read every single EU book... All 240+

I've read nearly every single comic... Marvel and Dark Horse...

I've professionally worked for a Star Wars fan site and did interviews with people like Drew Karpyshan and Hall Hood.

Basically, I'm saying that I know my Star Wars.

Do you know how many had no Jedi at all in them? Very few.

Episode IV, New Hope? Obiwan Kenobi, Darth Vader? (Not including Luke in this one)

Episode V, Empire? Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader?

Episode VI, Return? Luke Skywalker, Yoda, Darth Vader, The Emperor?

Now, based on that... Let us look at the party, if they were an RPG Group:

R2D2, C3PO, Princess Leia, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, Obiwan Kenobi, Han Solo, Chewbacca...

Of these characters: 2 are Jedi/Sith, 2 are Force Sensitives, 2 aren't Force Sensitives/Users, and 2 are Droids.

Second film?

R2D2, C3PO, Leia, Luke, Vader, Yoda, Han, Chewie, Lando

Of these characters: 3 are Jedi/Sith, 1 is a Force Sensitive, 3 aren't Force Sensitives, and 2 are Droids... At this point the Force Users outnumber the non-Force Users.

Third film?

R2D2, C3PO, Leia, Luke, Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, Han, Chewie, Lando

How about this one? 4 are Jedi/Sith, 1 is a Force Sensitive, 3 aren't Force Sensitives, and 2 are Droids...

In Star Wars Lore (pre-EU wipe) literally every single major war and event included and/or revolved directly around the Jedi/Sith.

Or in short... Star Wars, at the core, is primarily set around Force Users and their allies.

Yes, there were short series (such as the wonderful X-Wing series) that didn't focus on Jedi... But they were the massive minority.

To me... Edge of the Empire just doesn't feel like it understands that.

The idea is that, yes, in the time of the Empire the Jedi were virtually wiped out... Save for the characters the movie followed... So... Does it want us to be background characters? Does it want us to be one of the guys sitting in the cantina in Mos Esley? Is it a game balance issue? I never felt that the non-Force Sensitives in the films were under powered, and I've seen plenty of other games balance it out just fine so that shouldn't be an issue.

Then... The Jedi book wasn't even slated for release until 2015?

That... That is what lost me. That was when I filed the book into the long box of books that I probably won't ever use. It sits, to this day, next to my copy of Babylon 5 D20 and Brave New World. It, to me, was a breach of trust. I play Star Wars, personally, for one reason... To play Jedi... That is the unique element of Star Wars. When I want to play a smuggler or a space cowboy of some type I play Firefly D20.

To put it simply... I can't trust the decisions of a group of designers who actually thought that some players wouldn't be miffed in a big way about not having Jedi actually be available from the start. Not only is it insanely restrictive (as it doesn't allow for proper simulation of any era other than the Empire era) but it removes, in large part, the largest part of Star Wars. As a game designer myself, it flabbergasts me, I want to seriously ask, "What were you thinking?"

If they wanted them removed from the game world... I don't know why they would want that... They could have simply released a series of early source books. Smugglers and Rogues, Jedi and Sith, Soldiers and Warriors... Instead they make a multi-year wait for Jedi? No. Just... No.

So... My honest feedback...

EotE is great if you want to play a budding Force Sensitive ala Luke Skywalker during Episode IV.

EotE is great if you want to play a Smuggler, a Soldier, a Pilot, etc.

EotE is absolutely terrible if you want to play a Jedi... Because Jedi weren't included... That... Was a mistake.

I'll bite, in as few words as possible. It was the prequel trilogy that narrowed the focus of the movies to Jedi. The FFG games follow the ethos of the original trilogy. My honest feedback? If this thread isn't trolling, then this thread strikes me as a little silly.

Saying that Star Wars is "about the Jedi" is like saying that Star Trek is "about the Enterprise", or that Doctor Who is "about the Daleks" - Sure, they're important to the setting, but not the be-all-and-end-all of the setting, and actually fairly easy to do without depending on the stories involved, especially at certain parts of the timeline where they don't exist.

Just like when the Enterprise is destroyed. Just like when the Daleks get destroyed... and just like the entire Rebellion period in Star Wars, when maybe a couple of dozen Jedi are left in the entire galaxy, if you're being generous, and is the default setting for the RPG.

Not every character needs to be, or should be, the special 1 in a trillion Jedi space wizard, and the designers made a specific decision to split the RPG into three parts, so each could have a major book focused on them - the morally grey smugglers/scum/etc, the Rebellion, and the Jedi/Sith. It also directly follows the path of the original trilogy, which the RPG seeks to emulate, with the first movie/book being about plucky smugglers and everyday people, the second being about the Rebel Alliance against the Empire, and the third being about the Jedi Order resurgent.

There's nothing about the way the game was designed, or released, that isn't 'Star Wars' - and given the massive commercial success and critical acclaim the FFG Star Wars series has been given? A hell of a lot of people would seem to agree.

So... yea, sorry that you get to miss out on one of the better RPGs of the decade. I'll be here playing my immensely fun scoundrels, smugglers and bounty hunters, with the occasional Force User popping up - just like Star Wars of the Rebellion Era should be.

This isn't a complaint thread...

Well, it is, but it isn't complaining to complain.

This is me giving my honest appraisal of the game Edge of the Empire.

Let me get my asbestos suit on... Okay... Here we go...

I Don't like Edge of the Empire... Edge of the Empire isn't a bad game and I really want to like it... But I can't.

As a game it isn't, at the core, a bad game. The mechanics are good, the system is clean, the generalities work really well. It does so many things right... But... It isn't Star Wars.

At the core, that is my problem, it doesn't feel, to me, like Star Wars.

I bought the book... It isn't the system at the core, but it feels like someone who generally doesn't understand Star Wars wrote it.

I know, I know, a huge contingent of fans are big on the "Jedi Hunter" and a huge contingent of fans love the Mandalorians because they kill Jedi, and a huge contingent of fans think Luke Skywalker and all Jedi suck and that Han Solo, Boba Fett, and their crew are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I got nothing against Mandalorians, or Han Solo, I love those guys.

However...

Star Wars, at the core... Is about Jedi.

I'll brace for the hatred and recoil from that one.

Okay, lets continue on...

Now, I've read every single EU book... All 240+

I've read nearly every single comic... Marvel and Dark Horse...

I've professionally worked for a Star Wars fan site and did interviews with people like Drew Karpyshan and Hall Hood.

Basically, I'm saying that I know my Star Wars.

Do you know how many had no Jedi at all in them? Very few.

Episode IV, New Hope? Obiwan Kenobi, Darth Vader? (Not including Luke in this one)

Episode V, Empire? Yoda, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader?

Episode VI, Return? Luke Skywalker, Yoda, Darth Vader, The Emperor?

Now, based on that... Let us look at the party, if they were an RPG Group:

R2D2, C3PO, Princess Leia, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, Obiwan Kenobi, Han Solo, Chewbacca...

Of these characters: 2 are Jedi/Sith, 2 are Force Sensitives, 2 aren't Force Sensitives/Users, and 2 are Droids.

Second film?

R2D2, C3PO, Leia, Luke, Vader, Yoda, Han, Chewie, Lando

Of these characters: 3 are Jedi/Sith, 1 is a Force Sensitive, 3 aren't Force Sensitives, and 2 are Droids... At this point the Force Users outnumber the non-Force Users.

Third film?

R2D2, C3PO, Leia, Luke, Vader, Yoda, Palpatine, Han, Chewie, Lando

How about this one? 4 are Jedi/Sith, 1 is a Force Sensitive, 3 aren't Force Sensitives, and 2 are Droids...

In Star Wars Lore (pre-EU wipe) literally every single major war and event included and/or revolved directly around the Jedi/Sith.

Or in short... Star Wars, at the core, is primarily set around Force Users and their allies.

Yes, there were short series (such as the wonderful X-Wing series) that didn't focus on Jedi... But they were the massive minority.

To me... Edge of the Empire just doesn't feel like it understands that.

The idea is that, yes, in the time of the Empire the Jedi were virtually wiped out... Save for the characters the movie followed... So... Does it want us to be background characters? Does it want us to be one of the guys sitting in the cantina in Mos Esley? Is it a game balance issue? I never felt that the non-Force Sensitives in the films were under powered, and I've seen plenty of other games balance it out just fine so that shouldn't be an issue.

Then... The Jedi book wasn't even slated for release until 2015?

That... That is what lost me. That was when I filed the book into the long box of books that I probably won't ever use. It sits, to this day, next to my copy of Babylon 5 D20 and Brave New World. It, to me, was a breach of trust. I play Star Wars, personally, for one reason... To play Jedi... That is the unique element of Star Wars. When I want to play a smuggler or a space cowboy of some type I play Firefly D20.

To put it simply... I can't trust the decisions of a group of designers who actually thought that some players wouldn't be miffed in a big way about not having Jedi actually be available from the start. Not only is it insanely restrictive (as it doesn't allow for proper simulation of any era other than the Empire era) but it removes, in large part, the largest part of Star Wars. As a game designer myself, it flabbergasts me, I want to seriously ask, "What were you thinking?"

If they wanted them removed from the game world... I don't know why they would want that... They could have simply released a series of early source books. Smugglers and Rogues, Jedi and Sith, Soldiers and Warriors... Instead they make a multi-year wait for Jedi? No. Just... No.

So... My honest feedback...

EotE is great if you want to play a budding Force Sensitive ala Luke Skywalker during Episode IV.

EotE is great if you want to play a Smuggler, a Soldier, a Pilot, etc.

EotE is absolutely terrible if you want to play a Jedi... Because Jedi weren't included... That... Was a mistake.

One of the core things you have missed about the design philosophy is how the Designers did the game. They asked people what was star wars to them. they get 3 answers. 1. the fringe, the han Solo stories. Dealing with the criminal underground and Han Solo type stories. 2. About the Rebellion against the empire. And all that entails. 3. the Jedi and the force.

The Made 3 core rule books. one to deal with each part. So if you think Edge of the Empire is all the star wars. You would be wrong. Sounds to me like you need to pick up force and destiny Beginner game and the core rule book when it come out in Julyish. And you probably want to pick up Age of rebellion and maybe even the beta book for Force and Destiny.

They could have done one core book and tried to cram in all the information for all 3 games. But they would have had to leave out a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor. And they wanted to take the time to get the force right as pretty much every game system has gotten the force completely wonky so as to make force users and everyoen else not play well together. This game does not seem to have that problem.

@HWalsh - if you haven't played it already, might I recommend the WEG Star Wars Revised and Expanded Edition? You can make any character you want, straight out of the core book, no problem. You might not find playing Jedi to be much fun because the Force mechanics are clunky as hell, but the char gen is more open-ended and it fits in with your vision of Jedi Wars - I mean Star Wars

"Now, I've read every single EU book... All 240+

I've read nearly every single comic... Marvel and Dark Horse...

I've professionally worked for a Star Wars fan site and did interviews with people like Drew Karpyshan and Hall Hood.

Basically, I'm saying that I know my Star Wars.

Do you know how many had no Jedi at all in them? Very few."

You know YOUR Star Wars. Not mine.

The designers were upfront about their decision to go three separate games; one about the fringe elements and Han Solo types, one about the soldiers and idealists fighting the empire and the third about Jedi and budding force sensitives. When the game line was first announced, they stated this. If you bought the RPG, just because it says Star Wars and didn't do research to know what you were buying, I have zero sympathy for you. You should have waited for force and destiny. You say you know Star Wars and that it is about Jedi? Perhaps you should have exercised some patience and waited, rather than rush in and buy a book that clearly defines what it is about.

As to why the books come out over three years, one it is to make money. Two, balancing Jedi and force users has to be done. Jedi and the like are not gods. They can do things that most people find fantastic but they are not better. We have seen Jedi be fought to a stand still one on one in canon, mostly by mandalorians. We have seen Jedi gunned down by battle droids and clones.

The movies and other media have the issue that the main characters of the story have plot armour. These characters don't die except to further the story. That is part of what makes Jedi so much better.

There is also the fact that the 240+ books you've read don't exist in canon anymore, so with new media coming out we may see more and more non-Jedi centric stories. For the record, some of the most well written EU fiction was about non force sensitives: the rogue and wraith squadron books. While all they really bad books (crystal star, etc) had Jedi. Now I don't deny that Jedi are important to the Star Wars universe, but the galaxy far far away is a big place. There is plenty of room to tell stories about those who don't use laser swords.

The only mistake I see is that you, HWalsh, bought something without knowing what it was, and being impatient. You should have waited for force and destiny to come out. But I suspect, you may be one of those people who buys everything Star Wars because it is Star Wars.

EotE is great if you want to play a budding Force Sensitive ala Luke Skywalker during Episode IV.

But somehow it doesn’t feel like “Star Wars”?

Boy can “Star Wars” mean different things to different people...

Star Wars, at the core... Is about Jedi.

I'll brace for the hatred and recoil from that one.

No, this is the exact reason why you posted it. No one here asked for your opinion and appraisal on a game that has been out for over 2 years, but you specifically went out of your way to go unto a message board of the game to tell everyone how you didn’t look into it before you bought it and how somehow it didn’t live up to your standards. For your information, it is right there on the cover “This complete tabletop roleplaying game explores the lawless fringes of the Empire.”

Pandora is open! XD

Welcome HWalsh

I will only focus on canon stories to support my ideas. As I pro Jedi and pro canon and I can agree that Jedi are one of the main and most important part from SW universe. Because the weight of all movies are heavily focused on Jedi (their fall) of course that they are important. You can't remove them from the story, but, this doesn't mean that should be the main focus for everygame.

Edge/Rebel/Force focuses on the Rebellion Era and players should mirror on that characters (of course they can be a droid party woot woot XD). We have, 1 Ambassador (her role as Force Sensitive is useless so don't count Leia as it.) 1 Alien Mechanic, 1 Smuggler, 1 Protocol Droid, 1 Astromech Droid and 1 Explorer + Force Emergent.

Obi-Wan is probably a Mentor NPC that... well [spoilerS] dies on the first movie [/spoilerS] XDDD

Based on Filloni's descriptions, the Last formed Padawan was Kanan, there are no surviving Masters, and probably only remains up to a hundred on minor knights and padawans. Force cults 1 of the 3 or 4 that appeared on the Clone Wars series (Dathomir) has been destroyed. No other important Force mentions on that era, so, in general therms, no Force characters with significative impact (I'm aware about Rebels "special guest" yes and is pre Rebellion and probably would dramatically die so XD) are on that era.

So, the main focus on the universe is probably the galactic war. In my games I always use to include FS, Jedi and other things, but it's because I like them, but respectly I disagree with you about Edge is "bad focused" in this field mate.

And people, expose your comments with more tollerance and respect please. Like or not his point of view, he hasn't offended anyone. Thanks

And people, expose your comments with more tollerance and respect please. Like or not his point of view, he hasn't offended anyone.

Oh please... I have no idea what anyone here said that was disrespectful to a totally invalid criticism of a game that set out to do exactly what its designers told us it would. I find the replies extremely mild and not at all intolerant or disrespectful. Stop having everyone tiptoe around the possibly hurt feelings of a poster that went trolling for replies.

Dante, I haven't appointed anyone in particular. Based on other posts, I know that people can become somtimes too agressive on the forums.

I don't like his point of view. Maybe I don't like too much his exposition. Either I don't belive that he is trolling. He is probably speaking from ignorance because hasn't seen full game features. Sorry if you feel ofende by my commentary, far away from my intention, but you will agree that people here sometimes are too much agressive with their expositions.

And what do you mean with this? "Stop having everyone tiptoe around the possibly hurt feelings of a poster that went trolling for replies." I haven't get it mate.

And people, expose your comments with more tollerance and respect please. Like or not his point of view, he hasn't offended anyone.

Oh please... I have no idea what anyone here said that was disrespectful to a totally invalid criticism of a game that set out to do exactly what its designers told us it would. I find the replies extremely mild and not at all intolerant or disrespectful. Stop having everyone tiptoe around the possibly hurt feelings of a poster that went trolling for replies.

It's not an "invalid criticism" of the game and the poster is just expressing how it is at odds with what they want. You're the only one in this thread so far who has taken this as a personal issue. If the OP's post is "trolling" then how in your opinion could they express their problem with the game without it being trolling? Everything they said is factually accurate and a matter of personal taste. Nor did they insult anyone. So basically, if you can't tell me how they could say what they wanted to say without it being trolling, then you're basically declaring having that opinion as trolling. Which isn't fair.

I was about to post my own comments to the OP but you've pre-empted this by attacking the OP and causing my first reply in this thread not to be saying why I disagree with the OP, but defending their right to their opinion!

I like Jedi. I plan to play one after i finish my first specialty. But I don't think they make the game. The story of star wars is at its heart a space opera, the retelling of a hero's journey. Jedi can be a part of it, but so are droids, smugglers, soldiers and all sorts of aliens and exotic locals.

That said the hidden force user, i'm away from my books so the exact name eludes me, and the jedi emergant actually work very well for their respective purposes. and if you want more, you can always add in the classes from force and destiny.

My group uses all three main books, (we bought the beta for force and destiny, just couldn't wait) we have a Ace (pilot), Droid heavy, Spy slicer and smuggler thief. Our current GM is working out how to turn the thief into a jedi.

OP - When I was a kid, Jedi were cool. They had special powers. They were blessed with special destiny. They, basically, appeal to most children's fantasies about being special.

As an adult, I find that a little trite because my attitude has drifted from respecting some special favour of the universe to respecting people who change things through courage or hard work. I think most adults find young Anakin (boy or teenager) a whiny spoilt brat who doesn't deserve all the things he is handed on a plate. I think for a lot of people, Jedi are not as interesting or cool as the non-Jedi. They find the setting dramatic, rich in potential, and don't want it to be saddled around some Special Snowflakes. So there's a big market for Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion. It satisfies all those people who aren't that fussed about Jedi. That's every bit as valid as people who want Jedi. And I'm not having a go at people who like the Jedi stuff or saying what I've said is some absolute truth. But what I say is true, from a certain point of view.

One thing that I picked up from your post that I think may be a misconception on your part, is that you wrote "the Jedi book isn't even out until 2015". That's correct but it's also wrong. Force and Destiny is a separate game line. I think you consider this to be a single game and having to wait two years for the actual Jedi supplement. That's not the case. You bought the wrong game. They're set in the same universe (obviously) and share the same rules, but they are NOT the same game. There's going to be a Jedi game and a full line of Jedi adventures and supplements. It gets released this year. It hasn't been released yet and you shouldn't think of it as a supplement to Edge of the Empire, otherwise you're going to be seriously disappointed. Which I think is what has happened.

So in short: you're let down by Edge of the Empire because it doesn't contain Jedi and to you this makes it not Star Wars. But you're mistaken. Edge of the Empire is not "the Star Wars role-playing game". There are three separate Star Wars role-playing games. You bought the wrong one. Jedi aren't being treated as less important. They're the entire focus of a game line every bit as complete as Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion. It's just not out yet.

It's not an "invalid criticism" of the game and the poster is just expressing how it is at odds with what they want.

If I want fish but buy beef instead do I then get to complain on the butcher’s message board over why the beef sucks for not being fish? Is that what having a valid opinion means? because that is what the op is doing.

You're the only one in this thread so far who has taken this as a personal issue.

A. No I wasn’t.

B. No I didn’t.

If the OP's post is "trolling" then how in your opinion could they express their problem with the game without it being trolling?

Again so my "meat fish” example. Now if he would have said “I found the meat to have a livery taste I don’t care for” or it was a bit to stringy for my taste” but no, it just stated "food is fish and I don’t care for the meat, even though I did buy… well…. meat, but… Well… You know I still want fish and it is still two months away before the fish gets here so I am going to tell everyone that likes meat how they are wrong for liking it because it is not fish. Food has always been about fish and I am a true fish fan.” (and before you say he never said we are wrong for liking, please read the OP carefully again.)

Everything they said is factually accurate and a matter of personal taste. Nor did they insult anyone. So basically, if you can't tell me how they could say what they wanted to say without it being trolling, then you're basically declaring having that opinion as trolling. Which isn't fair.

You say the same thing a lot…

And again, no.

I was about to post my own comments to the OP but you've pre-empted this by attacking the OP

Oh, please… What “attack”?

defending their right to their opinion!

Great use of the exclamation point their Knassler. You are quite the activist.

You know, this post strikes me as along the same lines as those people who would go onto The Old Republic game site before it was released and make big arguments about why Jedi should be a rare and uncommon character type and not a player character option. In that game it was clearly stated that you would be playing those that make up the rare, uncommon and exceptional.. and it was in an era when the Jedi order was quite large, basically during a sort of prime for the order..

Here we have the opposite, let's take a game that is advertised as being about the lawless fringe character with a focus on the kinds of characters that would be a part of this fringe society during a time when the Jedi order had been all but wiped out and largely forgotten. Try to remember that even the general belief that the Force exists or that Jedi were more than heroes in myths and legend was pretty minimal. Also remember that the EU isn't really considered part of Canon anymore and so expecting that it will be followed is questionable in it's own right.

And even in the face of this, they provide some force rules for those that might want to explore some of this direction of things. No, you can't make a Jedi in this game but then there is no Jedi order left to be part of.. what few scattered Jedi there might be out there are not terribly likely to be taking on Padawans for the most part.

And then, to top it all off, you wait until after Force and Destiny, the part of their system designed for those that want to play with a focus on the Force and force sensitives is in publicly available beta stage and close to being fully released. Then you go to the forum focused on a different aspect of the game and point out how it doesn't focus on The Force.. there's a whole book about it nearing release as we type this.

So perhaps my original analogy was a bit off... this is a post like those that complained that the Force and Destiny book was too much about force users. If you read the descriptions of the products you have a pretty clear indication of what you should expect when you pick up the book. If you pick up Force and Destiny expecting all kinds of info about making your favorite Bobba Fett wannabe you're looking in the wrong place. If you pick up Edge of the Empire wanting to make your new savior of the lost jedi order, it's just not the right product for you..

In short, and in my own opinion, Edge of the Empire is an amazing product and it absolutely feels like Star Wars.. or more accurately, it feels like one piece of the full Star Wars universe. If you want to explore what the earlier years of Han Solo might have been like then this product along with some of it's supplements will give you that part of what is Star Wars. If you want the full picture though, be prepared to grab all three core books at the very least.

Then... The Jedi book wasn't even slated for release until 2015?

Umm... ok. If only this thread was started when EotE first came out and not in 2015.

You said you liked the system and the F&D book will be out soon, just wait and review the game that you want to play.

I'm all for critiquing mechanics and the such like but this thread brings nothing to the table. No offence to the OP, but it might be an idea just to let this thread slide down the listings until it's forgotten.

It's not an "invalid criticism" of the game and the poster is just expressing how it is at odds with what they want.

If I want fish but buy beef instead do I then get to complain on the butcher’s message board over why the beef sucks for not being fish? Is that what having a valid opinion means? because that is what the op is doing.

That's a poor analogy. A better one might be that for years the OP has been buying a dish from the Star Wars chain of restaurants and it has always been mostly beef with a bit of fish (try not to imagine how it tastes, it tastes of midichlorians). Then one day they walk into one particular Star Wars restaurant (the one in FFG town) and are unaware that here the beef and the fish are served as separate dishes. They react badly because it was always the beef that they liked and this dish is all fish.

It's not shockingly unnatural that they misunderstood. And if they care a lot about the dish they've been eating for years, it's not wrong of them to say "Hey - there's no beef in this." It's just a matter of pointing out that the beef is still available, but not all customers wanted beef and fish mixed together. Maybe because the taste of the beef overpowered the taste of the fish. And so the customer can be happy, they should just order the beef dish which the chef is currently preparing, and either enjoy the fish for what it is or just give the chef a little more time.

There, now I've fixed your analogy. You're welcome.

See, anyone can post here and it's the OP's first post. We should be (a) welcoming to newcomers and (b) respond civilly and point out where we disagree rather than leap down their throat scolding them for "trolling". You see, our approach leads to a potential happy new member to our community and potentially better gaming for them if we persuade them to our side. Your approach leads to alienation and exclusion (and the Dark Side). So, you know, be nice until they make the first aggressive move. And no, I don't think a post saying 'I'm really disappointed in this game because there are no Jedi' is an aggressive move.

Great use of the exclamation point their Knassler. You are quite the activist.

Uh, sure. Pardon me for using the full range of punctuation available to me. Best avoid my other posts - I've even been known to use semi-colons.

Without wanting to sound like everyone's mum-they-never-wanted, let's stop pecking each other. You can tell from the title of the thread that it's click bait. Let it die.

Without wanting to sound like everyone's mum-they-never-wanted, let's stop pecking each other. You can tell from the title of the thread that it's click bait. Let it die.

Whether one regards it as trolling or not, I agree that if someone isn't interested in this, just don't post. I've said all that I have to say to the OP on the subject. Their problem is that they think this is one game and Jedi are a minor part of it. In fact what happened is they bought the wrong game.

If someone is trolling, don't feed the trolls. If someone genuinely disagrees with and dislikes the post, the best thing they can do to get rid of it, is not respond and keep it on the front page. Anyway, unless the discussion moves on to something else, I've nothing more on this.

If I want fish but buy beef instead do I then get to complain on the butcher’s message board over why the beef sucks for not being fish? Is that what having a valid opinion means? because that is what the op is doing.

That's a poor analogy. A better one might be that for years the OP has been buying a dish from the Star Wars chain of restaurants and it has always been mostly beef with a bit of fish (try not to imagine how it tastes, it tastes of midichlorians). Then one day they walk into one particular Star Wars restaurant (the one in FFG town) and are unaware that here the beef and the fish are served as separate dishes. They react badly because it was always the beef that they liked and this dish is all fish.

It's not shockingly unnatural that they misunderstood. And if they care a lot about the dish they've been eating for years, it's not wrong of them to say "Hey - there's no beef in this." It's just a matter of pointing out that the beef is still available, but not all customers wanted beef and fish mixed together. Maybe because the taste of the beef overpowered the taste of the fish. And so the customer can be happy, they should just order the beef dish which the chef is currently preparing, and either enjoy the fish for what it is or just give the chef a little more time.

There, now I've fixed your analogy. You're welcome.

Except you didn’t fix it. At all.

You made some serious assumptions about the posters mind set that do not apply to his initial point at all.

He knew, or at the very least should have know, what Edge of the Empire was. It is right there on the cover, front and back. It is all over the internet, it has been discussed by the developers and he even knew about F&D becoming a thing and alludes to this.

He still finds fault in the game being what it set out to be instead of thinking “Oh, I might have been uninformed, and went out and bought something that wasn’t for me…” No, it is the games fault, not his.

He is blaming meat for not being fish plain and simple, no matter how much surf and turf came before it, EotE was always going to be exactly what it became.

See, anyone can post here and it's the OP's first post. We should be (a) welcoming to newcomers and (b) respond civilly and point out where we disagree rather than leap down their throat scolding them for "trolling". You see, our approach leads to a potential happy new member to our community and potentially better gaming for them if we persuade them to our side. Your approach leads to alienation and exclusion (and the Dark Side). So, you know, be nice until they make the first aggressive move. And no, I don't think a post saying 'I'm really disappointed in this game because there are no Jedi' is an aggressive move.

Being a newcomer doesn’t warrant you to make uninformed (or informed off-base) remarks. I am absolutely sure the OP is trolling and if I go over this topic I find I was neither the first, nor the only one to make this assumption. As another poster stated even the title is clickbait. There is absolutely nothing in the post that would suggest there is any validity in you saying “our approach leads to a potential happy new member to our community” and if you really believe this I find your views on the OP extremely naive.

Your strident climbing onto the barricades to defend a troll (that’s right I said it) his "right to his opinion!” doesn’t make you the bigger man. It only makes me scratch my head to see you act all holier than thou and wonder where the perceived “ attacks” and “aggression” you so vehemently disagreed with are in the first place.

I don’t think my assessment of the OP as posting clickbait/trolling 2 years after the release of the game and with the thing he really wants to play a few weeks away and posting “my opinion” on this, is an attack at all. It isn’t. Nor is it aggressive.

Uh, sure. Pardon me for using the full range of punctuation available to me. Best avoid my other posts - I've even been known to use semi-colons.

I have no interest in your colon. Semi or other.

You made some serious assumptions about the posters mind set that do not apply to his initial point at all.

Yes I did. It's called "Benefit of the doubt". I don't know the OP or anything about them. I just know that it's their first post here and what they wrote. So when responding to them I assume good intentions rather than deliberate trolling in the absence of such evidence.

He knew, or at the very least should have know, what Edge of the Empire was. It is right there on the cover, front and back. It is all over the internet, it has been discussed by the developers and he even knew about F&D becoming a thing and alludes to this.

So you condemn the OP because you believe "they should know". Is it that inconceivable that a major Star Wars fan (which the OP obviously is) walks into a shop or is looking through Amazeon, sees a SW role-playing game and thinks the following: pretty much every SW media and novel ever produced is about Jedi (which be fair, is true) and buys it not really thinking it wont include Jedi? That's inconceivable to you? I have the book right here. The back cover talks about "explore the lawless fringes of the galaxy". It doesn't say anything about not including Jedi, though it does list "Force powers" as one of the features on the back cover. Really, you're sticking with this? It's okay to attack the OP because it's so stunningly unlikely that they picked up this book without realizing that it doesn't include Jedi?

Jedi have been central to each of the Star Wars films and pretty much every book as well as being a major part of every previous Star Wars RPG. We all obviously know that the book doesn't include Jedi because we follow the forums, follow the upcoming F&D game, etc. That doesn't mean everyone is super well-informed. You say "it's right there on the cover, front and back." Well it actually isn't. Nothing says Jedi are absent, it does say "Force Powers" as a feature and like it or not Jedi ARE a major part of Star Wars in pretty much everything EXCEPT this game.

You are wrong to argue that the poster must be a troll and deliberately be trying to upset people (that's what a troll is about, no?) because you're so certain everyone MUST know that this Star Wars role-playing game isn't about Jedi.

And yes, the poster mentioned F&D. Doesn't mean they knew everything at the time they bought EotE. You accuse me of making assumptions but all I'm doing is not filling in the blanks and deciding I know what it's reasonable for the OP to know or not know. You are the one that is so certain that they must know everything about FFG's game line.

Being a newcomer doesn’t warrant you to make uninformed (or informed off-base) remarks.

Yeah, it kind of does. Someone new gets a bit of leeway and if they make a mistake, you start by treating it as a mistake because that's the right thing to do.

I am absolutely sure the OP is trolling

And I am not. And I see no solid reason for you to be so certain when you know no more about them than I do. I believe I've laid it out pretty clearly how and why someone might reasonable have expected a Star Wars role-playing game to include Jedi. And if that's the primary thing they care about in Star Wars, I don't begrudge them expressing their disappointment. The book costs £40 after all. You can not care if you wish and consider them an idiot for not having realized, but I don't see why that should extend to attacking them for posting in our community.

Your strident climbing onto the barricades to defend a troll (that’s right I said it) his "right to his opinion!” doesn’t make you the bigger man. It only makes me scratch my head to see you act all holier than thou and wonder where the perceived “ attacks” and “aggression” you so vehemently disagreed with are in the first place.

I do it because I want the community to be a friendly welcoming place and consider your posts to move us away from that. If you genuinely consider the OP to be trolling, then by this point in the history of the Internet you should have learned the principle of "Do not feed the trolls". This thread is only even still on the first page because of the copious food you are providing. If you genuinely consider it trolling, then as Pac_Man3D advised, just don't rise to it. And then you can let those of us you call "naïve" waste our time trying to help the OP.

I don’t think my assessment of the OP as posting clickbait/trolling 2 years after the release of the game and with the thing he really wants to play a few weeks away and posting “my opinion” on this, is an attack at all. It isn’t. Nor is it aggressive.

Calling someone a troll is aggressive. Responding to their post with "No one here asked for your opinion" is aggressive. And it's certainly unfriendly.

Having five Jedi PCs in the Imperial era is like everybody at a Civil War Reenactment being colonels or beyond: Silly.

And that's why I love Edge and don't like the concept of F&D.

Having five Jedi PCs in the Imperial era is like everybody at a Civil War Reenactment being colonels or beyond: Silly.

And that's why I love Edge and don't like the concept of F&D.

Yeah. For me, the lack of the Special Snowflakes is a major plus in EotE. And more so, my players actually feel that way too and became notably more interested in the game when I told them there were no Jedi and that it was more about being criminals in outer space.

I will be getting F&D but it's mainly to add a little flavour and some Force presence in the game. They will encounter Force use in the game, it just wont be in the foreground very often. I actually find the title of the upcoming Star Wars film quite off-putting. The Force Awakens? Sigh...

I wonder what the OP thinks about all this honest feedback?

(Waits.)

Do you think we'll have to wait long?