Simply put the 2ed rules worked fine imho! I was sceptical at first about 2ed release tbh but I did see the need to improve the skill system and magic and so i bought£ into the idea. Thou i did notice a delcine (simplified) in setting detail (ie history, and backgrounds) although this didn't effect me overly because i had 1ed books so knew the lore of the land etc. Also that you needed a few books to have what you had with 1ed. However it was by and large good stuff and i had many good roleplay sessions and still do.

To refer to a few of the main mission statements of the new 3ed.

The first main one being that it encourages more roleplaying

• That being throu card aids that display all information so you don't have to look through rule books, so there is more time to role play.

Surely this is what a character sheet is for?

• Through fancy dice of different colours because you tell a story of a single attack.

Sure they made less stats and skills so less stuff there but then made the dice more complicated ie more time to work = less roleplay surely (no math degree to work out the system ofc, but like the fact that i only need to role three dice max), but my main gripe with this is that the dice some how tell a story. I mean come on a GM can make that up and it sounds like he/she still has to but have some tacky dice to guide them. Surely a player character can roleplay in a recklass manor with out dice? Besides one can already do an all out attack in so far as mechanics are concerned, for example.

The second being that they have got rid of the boring carrers because they (FFG or maybe just the PR guy in the vid) are not intrested in their mundane lives.

Well what about npc's creation and the depth it offers in flavour (thus better roleplay attmoshere). Not to metion that some of my players have started lifes in mundane carreers before adventuring. Tbh this smacks of WarhammerOnline career system buy the looks of it (which is a game i love too, but i don't see it as a roleplaying game in the same sence as book roleplaying).

In summery I think the roleplaying content is only going to be as good as its roleplayers and GM. Ofc this 3ed is there fore more apealing to those who have not played it before as it will no doubt be even more simplified that before for a wider appeal. So in my mind thats a bad thing because the setting to me is what makes warhammer so great.

Perhaps in an ideal world they would continue the 2ed along with the 3ed (for those who like it). That way they could keep the old customer base along with the new, rather than replacing one with the other. How ever i guess thats not going to happen so i will just have to make up the rest for my self and save my money for Dark Heresy until that gets the same death blow (in the eyes of most die hard fans like my self). Ofc this is not meant as a slight to those who like the new game and is purely what i like or do not like.

Because maybe, just maybe you can create a better game.

Or just make more money.

Unless you write in size 6px font, character sheets rarely have enough room to write out all the rules you'll need to look up for each skill and talent, unless they're character folios. But even then it's a bit of a stretch if your character is a spell caster of some kind.

macd21 said:

lol

Necrozius said:

yeah sure u might need two pages of a4 and few basic memory skills (ie retaining some basic rules) but this in my mind is no great bind and does not hinder the game what so ever. In my mind this is no reason to start over, just design ur own character sheet that works for you is all.

Yes, 2nd edition rules work fine.

So USE them and quit this constant whining about the new edition.

Agrippa said:

So why on earth are you complaining about these new sheets?

Necrozius said:

Does it bother you that much that someone isnt interested in 3E? Honestly, why cant we complain?

Its no more tiresome then hearing about how much people are looking forward to 3E

I don't think macd21 was being flip. I would assume that the new edition is a product of wanting to make a profit and a simultaneous interest in giving the IP a fresh new system. Both goals are admirable to me.

There's innovations in RPGs all the time these days. Lots of new ideas have come forward in design that are contributing to making some very good, very fun games. Why not do the same thing with WFRP? Something doesn't have to be broken before you decide to try and innovate or make it more efficient. Whatever the strengths of WFRP v2, it is a very traditional game with a very traditional system. Certainly not broken. But why not see what else you can do with it?

In that case you should release a new edition with a new rule system every year, just to see what you can do with it.

Well at this point it turns into a debate on what's the best cycle time for an RPG edition. I don't know that so won't argue it. My opinion however is that now was as good a time as any for FFG to do it. v2 wasn't that long in the tooth yet, but it seems to me that a good time to do it would be when you acquire the license. Do the design changes you'd like to do, put your stamp on it, and start making back your money that you spent on acquiring the license in the first place.

Peacekeeper_b said:

In that case you should stop being so flippent.

Yes, you don't like the game. Yes, we know, you've told us. Now why come onto the forum area of the game you have decided not to like and troll it?

If you don't like it, and have decided you'll never like it, go away. You aren't being constructive at all, and are doing nothing but being a troll.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Why does it bother you so much that some people don't feel that FFG is ****** them?

I can tolerate people not being interested in the system, and stating why.

I won't tolerate all the sneering and elitist accusations of having a lower attention span, lack of maturity, poor math skills or a myriad of other things when I declare that I'm optimistic that WFRP 3E won't be an outright disaster.

MILLANDSON said:

Eh, I've got no hard feelings against anyone here yet. I think its fine that some people want to vent their frustration with the new edition. We've only got a handful of facts and boatload of speculation. What the hell else are we gonna talk about in between updates?

I didn't mean sound like i was insulting people's intelligence cuz they like 3ed. The math thing was meant as to a positive for it as it happens and i was refering that i could do work it out is all. I just had to rant having just found this out recently. Like i said it would be ideal if they carried both editions for different fan bases (ofc this pretty much a pipe dream). It true that i have all the second edition books and can roleplay forever with them, but i'm just sad that no new content for 2ed will ever be realsed now. I aslo suspect that new content in 3ed will be a bit thin on the ground going by the trend.

Agrippa said:

And that the PDFs will be available for only a limited time too. No WFRP 2ed in perpetuity...

The limitied availability of the PDFs is the saddest part of the whole thing, and the biggest mistake on the part of FFG. If anything is going to further alienate the 2E/3E crowd it's that.

No one has tried to fix it. It has been CHANGED!

macd21 said:

The Excuse.

macd21 said:

The Truth

Regardless of whether this game is the greatest rpg of all time, the rpg that is so popular that roleplaying becomes a mainstream hobby or a dismal failure, it's birth has been brought on purely by a finacial decision.

Foolishboy said:

Foolishboy said:

Of course there was a financial consideration. There's always the financial question. You think BI decided to make v2 out of the goodness of their hearts? Whether or not FFG want to make money off v3 or not isn't a question. But it is irrelevent. What is important is whether FFG decided to make their money by creating a high-quality game that would appeal to people, or a cheap piece of crap that was designed to wring money out of customers.

I think you forget the expensive piece of crap option on you're list there.

No, by 'cheap' I meant cheap to produce, thereby increasing the profit margin of the company. There wouldn't be much point in trying to sell something that was expensive to create if all they want is sell the maximum number of copies for the maximum amount of profit. They'd churn out some shoddy junk and slap a high price tag on it.

jadrax said:

Correct. FFG far more than some companies has to rely on it's name. When i hear FFG i always think of 'quality'. Slow releases frequently but quality. Quality in its books, its boards, its cards etc.

I get the feeling they wanted to redesign and slide it fully under their 'control' so to speak and break with the Black Library legacy.