The way I think about it, you'll need fewer ships in a typical Armada list than you require for an X-Wing list. I used to buy typically four of every starfighter to have complete flight groups, but I think for Armada I'll stop at 2, pushing to 3 only for exceptions (like CR-90 swarms). I honestly don't see the need to fly more than two Victories now that the Imperial is a thing. A list idea is one Imperial, two Victories (expansion + core), two Gladiators/Raiders and fighters. A satisfying list and not going beyond two of what I would require (and only one ISD).

Honestly from a marketing perspective. I think they're different target markets. Theyre marketing this a sBIG High end expensive game. T takes even more time and commitment than Xwing. It requires paint.

Xwing is the poor mans mini game. Anyone can get in.

Armada is not. It's marketed to an older group. Namely the OT enthusiasts who are now generally 30+ and have stable jobs where 300 isn't a big deal.

Plus as controversial as this is gonna be it's probably the right market description from an objective basis:

30+ white men whom are either nerdy or have cushy jobs anyways who really love Xwing. And want to play with more other men with cushy jobs.

Honestly Star Wars is a lot of American typical propaganda. It's still awe inspiring though.

Also a note. This is a loose market. Of course there are tons of people who don't got that description who will love Star Wars and play armada. But they aren't the primary market.

Oh and it's a battle game. So you know. Men.

Yet oddly enough, its right at the limit of pricing them out. In my X-wing league, I mentioned the 10 guys I polled about Armada.

2 already owned it. (under 30 years old, no kids)

2 maybes (1 under 30, 1 over 30. unknown kids)

6 No. (all 30+, all with kids)

Theyre marketing this a sBIG High end expensive game.

Imperial Assault costs $100 as well, is that a big high end expensive game? Most core sets cost that much in fact. X-Wing is actually a bit odd for being so low.

Starter sets for Warmahordes, Flames of War, Infinity, 40k, all are $100 or more. So that makes Armada on par for every other miniature game out there.

Yet oddly enough, its right at the limit of pricing them out.

The opinion of 6 people is hardly conclusive evidence of the above, especially considering how much most other starter/core sets cost.

Theyre marketing this a sBIG High end expensive game.

Imperial Assault costs $100 as well, is that a big high end expensive game? Most core sets cost that much in fact. X-Wing is actually a bit odd for being so low.

Starter sets for Warmahordes, Flames of War, Infinity, 40k, all are $100 or more. So that makes Armada on par for every other miniature game out there.

Yet oddly enough, its right at the limit of pricing them out.

The opinion of 6 people is hardly conclusive evidence of the above, especially considering how much most other starter/core sets cost.

I've made the same observation.

The way I think about it, you'll need fewer ships in a typical Armada list than you require for an X-Wing list. I used to buy typically four of every starfighter to have complete flight groups, but I think for Armada I'll stop at 2, pushing to 3 only for exceptions (like CR-90 swarms). I honestly don't see the need to fly more than two Victories now that the Imperial is a thing. A list idea is one Imperial, two Victories (expansion + core), two Gladiators/Raiders and fighters. A satisfying list and not going beyond two of what I would require (and only one ISD).

I don't believe you need fewer ships for Armada (though also I don't feel like I need four of every X-wing miniatures starfighter)

For example, 300 points lets you reasonably squish in two Victory class star destroyers or Assault Frigates (each ship is equivalent $ of a Decimator, going by the stand-alone expansion) with a healthy amount of squadrons. That's over the cost of the maximum of two Decimators you can fit into X-wing.

A similar points cost of CR-90s (starviper prices) will get you four + squadrons and you can fit a maximum of four Blacksun enforcers in X-wing.

when the game escalates to 400, we'll cleanly jump x-wing in the number of models required

Not that it really makes much sense to compare the two (completely different games with completely different scales and requirements), but X-wing is cheaper (unless you need to go upgrade hunting, then math help you)

X-Wing is actually a bit odd for being so low.

I agree. Armada also feels more 'complete' as a starter box set (if that makes any sense). When I got X-wing I had one X-wing to push 'round the board. As a Rebel player in Armada not only do I have the 2 ships but I also have four flights of X-Wings. That's not bad. I admit that I did wince when they annouced prices as I was really keen to get into Armada. My main problem is that I want an Imperial and a Rebel fleet so it's going to cost quite a bit in the long run (especialy looking at wave 2!).

Simple. The models for Star Ship Battles still sell for decent cash, even though the game is terrible. The ISD still sells for $30 online. I think $50 (~$40 online expected) is a great price for a much higher quality miniature in a currently active game with very good rule system.

And new video games are priced at $69 instead of $59 now.

X-Wing is actually a bit odd for being so low.

I agree. Armada also feels more 'complete' as a starter box set (if that makes any sense). When I got X-wing I had one X-wing to push 'round the board. As a Rebel player in Armada not only do I have the 2 ships but I also have four flights of X-Wings. That's not bad. I admit that I did wince when they annouced prices as I was really keen to get into Armada. My main problem is that I want an Imperial and a Rebel fleet so it's going to cost quite a bit in the long run (especialy looking at wave 2!).

it makes sense to me

while I appreciate the amount of stuff that went into the X-wing core set, it just feels incomplete with a measly two ties and single x-wing

Armada feels "small" (spoiled by Empire at War and RoTJ) but more complete not only because of the increased model count, but because each individual capital ship allows far more player input than a single ship in X-wing (both mentally in terms of decisions to be made, and physically in terms of stuff to play with like the shield values, command stack, speed dial, flexible navigation tool etc ).

I think the price is fine. Even after my wave 2 purchases and with all of wave one (multiples of the MKII and Gladiator) and two starters I'll be looking at probably around 500pts of each side (maybe 600) which gives me tons of flexibility and all for around $450 all told. You can get in a for a lot, lot less naturally but that price point is totally solid for what you're getting and the size of the game.

Meh, pricing is reasonable for a game that I can mostly just open up and play. I do or would spend a lot more money on every other miniature game I'm interested in for two equivalent armies.

Based on my 20+ years of miniature gaming, the price is quite attractive really. The core game cost is in line with other core game products of similar type on the market. Quite frankly the quality has been of a great standard as well. Most fleet games require you to build and paint everything.

How pricey something is, depends on each person. One mans expensive is another mans bargain. That said I have 2 kids, and I am over 30 years old, and I find it all very reasonable.

I dunno. Playing at my LFGS, lots of people came up and asked about it and watched. The most common response from people who asked the price?

"That's not bad."

Not one person grimaced or commented negatively. The majority of people who had been considering it, after seeing it, said they'd probably pick up 2 Cores.

People like to say "Well, comparing it to GW isn't something you should be proud of!" but the fact is, those are the people who are going to be attracted to a game like this. But even moving past GW, Magic players aren't really going to (and haven't at my store) bat an eye. Yes, some will, who play cheaper versions of MTG anyway, but there's a large segment of that population that'll drop hundreds of dollars every few months on booster boxes or individual rares.

I'm not saying Armada is cheap, but there are plenty of people who are going to be fine with the price.

At some point what might be nice is for FFG to split up the starter kit into faction starter kits with a price drop. So the Rebel starter kit could consist of a Nebulon-B, a CR90,a couple of X-wing squadrons and a couple of Y-wing squadrons along with cards, dice, rules, etc. It would be a good place to put faction orientated objectives and new faction unique ship upgrades.

still waiting on that "faction specific starter" for X-wing

it's been years...

I am over 40 (well, just turned 40 this year), married and have no kids.

I got a bread winning wife, so I spent about 50% of my paycheck on food and bills, the rest i can do what I want with.

plan on getting two of everything.. at least. 2 core sets, and two of each "expansion" etc. But then again, I am not going to get any other games except this one. I am 95% committed to Armada, and hope to be playing this game at the National Championships

Those ISD are really going to hurt when they come out of the shipyards

Gamers are so ******* cheap. Do any of y'all have other hobbies?

My shooting hobby costs blow this out of the water. Range fees, ammo, cost of the guns, ect.

When I raced sport cars and drag racing, oh boy! Tires, fuel, brake pads/shoes, food....

Golfing, just... ****.

And all those hobbies, the money is spend and there is nothing to show for it.

With gaming, the game is still here after i use it, and I can play it again, and again, forever!

So, no. The price is not anywhere close to being too high.

It's funny how people are complaining how expensive this game is. When you look at the over all price of X-wing and some of the cheaper or more expensive lists.

World's 2014 winning list - Paul Heaver
Fat Han (Predator + C-3PO + R2-D2 + Falcon Title + Engine) + 3 Z-95s
Starter set - $40
Falcon - $30
Tantive IV - $90
Defender - $15
Z-95 x 3 - $45
Total = $215

World's Runner up list - Morgan Reid
Whisper (VI + FCS + Tactician + ACD) + Academy x 3 + Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)
Starter set x 2 - $80
Tie Fighter - $15
Tie Phantom - $15
Firespray or Falcon - $30
Lambda Shuttle - $30
Total = $170

Multiple Store Championship list

B - Wing x 4 + Z-95 Headhunter
Starter set - $40

B-Wings x 4 = $60
Z-95 x 1 - $15
Total = $115

Panic Attack list
B-Wing x 3 (Tactitian + E2 upgrade) + Y-Wing (Ion cannon turret + R3-A2)
Starter set - $40
B-Wing x 1 - $15
Rebel Aces x 2 - $60
Y-Wing x 1 - $15
Rebel Transport - $60
Tie Phantoms x 3 - $45
Total = $235

Tie Swarm
Howlruner (Swarm Tactics) + Backstabber + Black (Draw their fire) + 3 x Acadamies + Obsidian
Starter set x 3 - $120
Tie Fighter - $15
Falcon - $30
Total = $165

Fat Dash and Corran
Dash (PTL + Kyle + Engine + HLC + Outrider) Corran (VI + R2-D2+ FCS)
Starter set - $40
Dash - $30
E-Wing - $15
Falcon - $30
Rebel Aces - $30
A-Wing - $15
B-Wing - $15
Total = $175

Every X-Wing list costs you at least $100. Some lists are really unique and only have 1 application while some are really diverse in their usage. Take a second and this about what the average list costs you to put together.

Edit: Spelling and Grammar

Gamers are so ******* cheap. Do any of y'all have other hobbies?

My shooting hobby costs blow this out of the water. Range fees, ammo, cost of the guns, ect.

When I raced sport cars and drag racing, oh boy! Tires, fuel, brake pads/shoes, food....

Golfing, just... ****.

And all those hobbies, the money is spend and there is nothing to show for it.

With gaming, the game is still here after i use it, and I can play it again, and again, forever!

So, no. The price is not anywhere close to being too high.

I hear that. I don't do near as much range time as I'd like because I just wince every time I buy target ammo. I do it just enough to stay in practice.

I would like to add that not everyone is willing to invest in games to the level they could. I think it comes down to some are interested, and others are passionate. I knew months before I played this game, that I was going to be in on it. I love Star Wars, love fleet combat, so my money is there with no argument. Some people that I talked to before release said I would have to play it first, and depends on the cost.

Gamers may have other games they are already invested in and enjoy, so why should they spend their money on this one? Playing it for some may be enough to drag them in, but in many cases they may have other subject matter in the game word they like better. Some gamers really are just downright cheap, and that is just the variety of people. My own group has had a go at many of the more recent trending games, but none have not stuck. It makes people nervous when yet another game rolls into the group. Some of us enjoy the hobby and we try everything, others bide their time waiting to see if it sticks around.

New games cause divides in limited player pools, and it also causes internal struggle. Several may not want to get into the game, but some of their core guys from their current game do. People can even get downright angry at the shifting tides in the game world, and some may even feel a betrayal. This has been the way of the hobby since I started. Something new and exciting with enough momentum can crush an established favorite, and drain a player pool. People will migrate to new groups, and some groups may fall apart all together.

So is it really too expensive? Or is it interfering with something else you enjoy? Maybe you are just not that interested in the subject matter? Maybe you are just not as into the hobby as me? Anyway, everyone will have a different view point. There are people in every game I have played that question its cost. If you want to play the game, you will find the money. If your group wants to play the game and you don't, well then you have to find a new group, or roll with the times. All part of a trending hobby.

Fortunately I'm a wargamer for more than a dozen years, so the price of Armada fleet doesn't really stand out to me - it's basically priced in the same bracket as a medium force for a skirmish-sized game and it's the X-wing that was extremely cheap. Although that's not necessarily true, because X-wing literally forced you to buy stuff you didn't even want to use just to get an upgrade card (push the limit? predator? Engine upgrade?) to be able to field a competitive, legal force, so the price tag of a squad was very virtual.

You could've noticed that a lot of players owned both rebs and imperials, because they liked the models or decided to do so because they got the X-wing/TIEs in the core set, but it's a subtle thing that actually forced them to do that, especially that if they bought those units for the opposite faction they could add those must-have cards to their list and suddenly the price tag went up exponentially, so don't just compare ship prices - if Armada doesn't require you to buy opposite faction ships, you'll not spend as much on it as if you would be literally forced to buy a small fleet of opposite faction ships just for the upgrades.

Sure, you could buy cards from someone else, but honestly - how many people actually sold Predator and PTL? Why buy the set in the first place? Just for the mini? Okay, that's possible, but not too likely.

Add lots and lots of various plastic pieces, another 3 dice styles and you'll have higher price.

they wanted to increase the profit margin.

the process used to manufacture such plastic parts is spray forming. you spray hot liquid plastic in a mold until it comes out on the other end. thats why you see those in and outlets plastic parts standing off which are normaly cut off eigther by factory or by hand using an exacto knife in wargaming. the shape of the item cast does not realy impact the price per piece. the modelling process in CAD once did cost some flat ammount and thats more if the model is more detailed, ok - but on a per piece basis its just the cost of the volume of the plastic. Drawing the base in CAD takes about 15mins if youre used to the programm so .. yea.

i think the far most expansive part is the chineese manual labor put into painting the models. they assemble our mobile phones and dye our clothings with cancerogenious substances as well so yea, close to slavery and definitively against the main articles in all of our constitutions but its not happening here so its "completly ok" as long as we can happy, happy consume. we are still in the brutal medieval times. but hey lets not do the political rant - noones wants to hear and its completly out of place to talk about it like everywhere, right?

they wanted to increase the profit margin.

the process used to manufacture such plastic parts is spray forming. you spray hot liquid plastic in a mold until it comes out on the other end. thats why you see those in and outlets plastic parts standing off which are normaly cut off eigther by factory or by hand using an exacto knife in wargaming. the shape of the item cast does not realy impact the price per piece. the modelling process in CAD once did cost some flat ammount and thats more if the model is more detailed, ok - but on a per piece basis its just the cost of the volume of the plastic. Drawing the base in CAD takes about 15mins if youre used to the programm so .. yea.

i think the far most expansive part is the chineese manual labor put into painting the models. they assemble our mobile phones and dye our clothings with cancerogenious substances as well so yea, close to slavery and definitively against the main articles in all of our constitutions but its not happening here so its "completly ok" as long as we can happy, happy consume. we are still in the brutal medieval times. but hey lets not do the political rant - noones wants to hear and its completly out of place to talk about it like everywhere, right?

You really oversimplified that. There are many more factors to that than just material cost, mate. Logistics are one.

You know, it's like you said that they could be selling core sets for 20$ because that's still less than it's manufacturing cost.

This game is expensive.

I feel X-Wing was more reasonable. $50 for the Imperial Star Destroyer is crazy. That's half the cost of the full game.

The VT-49 is $40 MSRP.

Were I a betting man, I would bet that the Imperial Star Destroyer will be at least 25% more imposing than a VT-49.