From a game mechanics standpoint I think Armada is much more refined. Removing the defense dice makes the game more streamlined, less erratic, and provides interesting tactical choices for the player. Making the attack dice more consistent and having tons of abilities to reroll or swap faces makes luck much less prevalent.

I also agree that the meta has become unappealing in XWM. In my mind, X-Wing is a dogfighting game... flying tanks with turrets doesn't seem like dogfighting to me. I will still probably collect one of each ship when they go on sale, because I am a Star Wars junkie, but I imagine anytime in the future that I am playing XWM, I'll be thinking about Armada.

My thoughts are basically in agreement with all these points. The lists one is required to take to be competitive in an X-wing tournament these days do not interest me at all. Armada seems somehow both more deep tactically and more streamlined than X-wing.

From a game mechanics standpoint I think Armada is much more refined. Removing the defense dice makes the game more streamlined, less erratic, and provides interesting tactical choices for the player. Making the attack dice more consistent and having tons of abilities to reroll or swap faces makes luck much less prevalent.

I also agree that the meta has become unappealing in XWM. In my mind, X-Wing is a dogfighting game... flying tanks with turrets doesn't seem like dogfighting to me. I will still probably collect one of each ship when they go on sale, because I am a Star Wars junkie, but I imagine anytime in the future that I am playing XWM, I'll be thinking about Armada.

count me in the exact same boat

primary weapon turrets (or mangler outriders) completely **** with the feel of X-wing, a game that was supposed to be based around maneuvering and yet allows the existence of a weapon that shoots you no matter where you are.

I will add, though, that once said turrets are removed from the equation X-wing becomes heaps of fun as you have to make crucial decisions on how to split apart his force and whether you should sacrifice your shot in order to maneuver to safety or forgo a safe position to get a shot etc. Though the green dice do still rear their ugly heads, the dog-fighting of X-wing miniatures is still an incredibly deep and satisfying experience

you throw in turrets, though, then it's an awesome game for one player and a dice rolling simulator for the opponent

Now Armada has a lot of my hopes riding on it, and it's impossible to tell whether or not it'll disappoint at this early as hell stage of the game. Then again, Wave 2 has been spoiled and the YT-1300 in it (insofar as we can see) is nowhere near as stupid or as impact as the one in X-wing, so I think we're on the right track.

Now we just gotta hope they never release a ship with the same dice armaments in every arc, the stats of a Victory, and the movement & command of a corvette.

I do like playing X-wing for fun, but I do believe this game took some lessons from the previous game and refined the mechanics. So far even with just the core set, I can say I have had more fun playing Armada.

From a game mechanics standpoint I think Armada is much more refined. Removing the defense dice makes the game more streamlined, less erratic, and provides interesting tactical choices for the player. Making the attack dice more consistent and having tons of abilities to reroll or swap faces makes luck much less prevalent.

I also agree that the meta has become unappealing in XWM. In my mind, X-Wing is a dogfighting game... flying tanks with turrets doesn't seem like dogfighting to me. I will still probably collect one of each ship when they go on sale, because I am a Star Wars junkie, but I imagine anytime in the future that I am playing XWM, I'll be thinking about Armada.

I agree, X wing meta feels too large and only allows for a few strategies. The number of x wing ships has almost reached a max, and judging by the overflowing x wing card storage I have, too many upgrade cards exist. In my opinion, Armada is a fresh start with refined mechanics.

X-Wing has serious flaws. Ordnance is superfluous and the game would be better without primary turrets and the phantom. But it has not Armada's clumsy I go - You go mechanism which tends to encourage a stupid exchange of game pieces and I like the way you can bluff in X-Wing.

The objectives are certainly an advantage of Armada, giving both tactical depth and variety. It may be less prone to gimmicky combinations, but that is a bit early to judge.

I'd play both.

Armada is really starting to catch on in my environs, and it looks like we're really building community around it. For me, that is what makes Armada more enticing to me. X-Wing (which I love) is already entrenched and has a large following (which is good). That means that Armada is largely unexplored, and we're essentially all equals in its discovery.

Of course, that has nothing to do with the inherent games. In terms of the games, I trust that Armada has the benefit of coming after X-Wing, and its creators can have learned from X-Wing. I also hope that it will be less tournamenty. I don't mind tournaments, but I would prefer for the game to come alive a little more and tell more of a story.

...reduced impact of dice (my namesake is absent)

From a game mechanics standpoint I think Armada is much more refined. Removing the defense dice makes the game more streamlined, less erratic, and provides interesting tactical choices for the player.

I'm not sure I follow these arguments. While I have also fallen victim to the fickle greens, I don't let my judgement be clouded by outlier results. On the whole, the more dice you roll, the less erratic their impact. It is the paradoxical truth.

They are two very different games. They might both be Star Wars 'ship' based combat, but that's where the similarity ends. Armada might be a bit more polished but X-Wing remains a great game.

That said, I prefer Armada by a long shot - it fits my play style a lot more and scratches an itch that X-Wing doesn't quite reach. I'll still play X-Wing but not as much. I know several X-Wing players who feel the opposite though so it really comes down to personal preference.

...reduced impact of dice (my namesake is absent)

From a game mechanics standpoint I think Armada is much more refined. Removing the defense dice makes the game more streamlined, less erratic, and provides interesting tactical choices for the player.

I'm not sure I follow these arguments. While I have also fallen victim to the fickle greens, I don't let my judgement be clouded by outlier results. On the whole, the more dice you roll, the less erratic their impact. It is the paradoxical truth.

The more dice you roll, the less erratic their impact is true, but over time. On an individual roll, or pair of (attack,defense) rolls, more dice is more random. There are less dice rolls overall in Armada, and the dice have more consistent output (less blanks). This all suits my personal taste better - I like some randomness, but not too much

The defense tokens I think are simply a better game mechanic than defense dice. Deciding which tokens to use and whether it is worth it to discard one can be a difficult decision and makes much more interesting game play than just rolling more dice to see what you get.

Another benefit is that it also makes for more interesting ship balancing. In X-Wing a ship can have (0-3) base defense dice. In Armada ships have a similar number of tokens, but there are 4 or 5 types to choose from (so far).

At this very minute, I think you have to say X-Wing is "better," based solely on how many options there are in it. Not including the epic ships, X-Wing has 21 ships available, each with several pilot options. There are literally dozens, I suspect probably even over 100 by now, of upgrade options.

With only the core set out, Armada has three ships and two fighters, each with two versions. There are relatively few upgrade cards (we literally have no choice on commanders, Imperials always run Tarkin and Rebels always run Dodonna). But as soon as Wave 1 hits, we'll have a lot more variety. Two new ships, six new fighters, all with two versions, plus a new version of each of the existing fighters, and lots of new upgrades. And Wave 2 will be another big leap forward. And Armada can continue to do a lot with each wave for a while now. I don't know what X-Wing can do for any more "big" waves now that we have the scum faction. Maybe historical factions: Clone Wars-era Republic and CIS, etc., but I don't think FFG wants to go into those other eras, or maybe their license doesn't cover them. Anyway, my point is that Armada is currently way behind but will be able to make up a lot of ground quickly.

Personally, I'm more interested in Armada. I love the Star Wars capital ships, I like objective-based scoring, I like cutting back on some of the guessing games introduced by X-Wing's maneuver dials. And did I mention capital ships? Star destroyers, corvettes, frigates, cruisers!

At this very minute, I think you have to say X-Wing is "better," based solely on how many options there are in it. Not including the epic ships, X-Wing has 21 ships available, each with several pilot options. There are literally dozens, I suspect probably even over 100 by now, of upgrade options.

With only the core set out, Armada has three ships and two fighters, each with two versions. There are relatively few upgrade cards (we literally have no choice on commanders, Imperials always run Tarkin and Rebels always run Dodonna). But as soon as Wave 1 hits, we'll have a lot more variety. Two new ships, six new fighters, all with two versions, plus a new version of each of the existing fighters, and lots of new upgrades. And Wave 2 will be another big leap forward. And Armada can continue to do a lot with each wave for a while now. I don't know what X-Wing can do for any more "big" waves now that we have the scum faction. Maybe historical factions: Clone Wars-era Republic and CIS, etc., but I don't think FFG wants to go into those other eras, or maybe their license doesn't cover them. Anyway, my point is that Armada is currently way behind but will be able to make up a lot of ground quickly.

Personally, I'm more interested in Armada. I love the Star Wars capital ships, I like objective-based scoring, I like cutting back on some of the guessing games introduced by X-Wing's maneuver dials. And did I mention capital ships? Star destroyers, corvettes, frigates, cruisers!

Oh my!

Armada is new and as a result it is riding the "excitement wave". Only time will tell if continues to shine.

Both games are good, I doubt one is superior to the other. It all comes down to what you as a player prefer.

When SW VII comes out it will be interesting to see what fighters and Capital ships will be introduced. Then we will see if FFG will add them to their games.

I love the Tactical depth of Armada more than the fly by the seat of your pants and hope your bluff or dice don't turn on you feel like X-Wing. That being said that is the difference between dog fighting and commanding a fleet and I think FFG has done a great job with both games in capturing the feel of those battles.

I feel X-Wing will still be the more competitive of the two and attract more players for its more easy to play rules. I like to think of it like playing Poker, lots of luck and bluffing.

Armada is the more slow down (not actually slowing down game play but the feel is more slower paced) and think about your next several moves. There is less guess work as to weather you can get a shot at your opponent and it is more about managing the reasources and pieces you have. I think of it like Chess.

So it comes down to personal choice, do you like the fast pace could loss at an second feel of Poker or do you like the slower more thoughful pace of Chess. In America Poker is more popular but Chess is still the king of a thinking man's game.

I love the Tactical depth of Armada more than the fly by the seat of your pants and hope your bluff or dice don't turn on you feel like X-Wing. That being said that is the difference between dog fighting and commanding a fleet and I think FFG has done a great job with both games in capturing the feel of those battles.

I feel X-Wing will still be the more competitive of the two and attract more players for its more easy to play rules. I like to think of it like playing Poker, lots of luck and bluffing.

Armada is the more slow down (not actually slowing down game play but the feel is more slower paced) and think about your next several moves. There is less guess work as to weather you can get a shot at your opponent and it is more about managing the reasources and pieces you have. I think of it like Chess.

So it comes down to personal choice, do you like the fast pace could loss at an second feel of Poker or do you like the slower more thoughful pace of Chess. In America Poker is more popular but Chess is still the king of a thinking man's game.

Well said Beatty.

I have both! I spend my money over them both No regrets!

At this very minute, I think you have to say X-Wing is "better," based solely on how many options there are in it. Not including the epic ships, X-Wing has 21 ships available, each with several pilot options. There are literally dozens, I suspect probably even over 100 by now, of upgrade options.

With only the core set out, Armada has three ships and two fighters, each with two versions. There are relatively few upgrade cards (we literally have no choice on commanders, Imperials always run Tarkin and Rebels always run Dodonna). But as soon as Wave 1 hits, we'll have a lot more variety. Two new ships, six new fighters, all with two versions, plus a new version of each of the existing fighters, and lots of new upgrades. And Wave 2 will be another big leap forward. And Armada can continue to do a lot with each wave for a while now. I don't know what X-Wing can do for any more "big" waves now that we have the scum faction. Maybe historical factions: Clone Wars-era Republic and CIS, etc., but I don't think FFG wants to go into those other eras, or maybe their license doesn't cover them. Anyway, my point is that Armada is currently way behind but will be able to make up a lot of ground quickly.

Personally, I'm more interested in Armada. I love the Star Wars capital ships, I like objective-based scoring, I like cutting back on some of the guessing games introduced by X-Wing's maneuver dials. And did I mention capital ships? Star destroyers, corvettes, frigates, cruisers!

You may have to say that it is better but I do not. I truly like X-Wing but am getting over whelmed at the constant never ending upgrades that change, modify, buff or break ships with each new wave. For us at least it does not fit the category of casual game any longer. though it may for some. We are not afraid of complexity or strategy but the advantage you see in the total options we have found difficult trying to remember the best builds or best auto-includes or even decent synergies.

Don't get me wrong X-Wing is still fun but my wife has clearly said deck/squad building isn't her thing. The irony is that I like the variety of ships and possible flow on things but get lost in remembering what goes best with what; it can be daunting. We've solved part of the problem with keeping a list of pre-built squads and we're hopping FFG published a missing/scenario book with suggested squads.

Oddly enough this the one of the things that's held us back from Armada.

The community seems more accepting of other opinions over here than in the X-Wing forum. This game definitely doesn't seem like you lose in set-up, unlike X-Wing. It's got that going for it. Hopefully it won't be super Pro-Tournament Only over here after a time either. This guys broke no dissenting opinion from what I can see.

to be fair, the phantom errata removed much of the "oh well, I guess i'm done" feeling when you forgot to bring some specific counters.

all that's left is the fat turrets ironically keeping my generic phantoms from seeing playtime

Yeah. There's definitely some lists or set up that are just.....blah.

I really hope that doesn't happen with Armada. I may actually want to play events for the cards.

Yeah. There's definitely some lists or set up that are just.....blah.

I really hope that doesn't happen with Armada. I may actually want to play events for the cards.

only time will tell

but I think they learned from their horrible implementation of turrets

Both ships and squadrons have 360 degrees of fire, but the distance and the arcs used actually matter

atm, it's hard to gauge how powerful something will be from stats alone. The Mon Cal, for example, looks absolutely terrifying with Victory-sized broadsides, but what isn't immediately obvious is that there's no way they can stack the side arcs on the same target unless a silly opponent gives him that objective that lets the 2nd player's ship fire twice out of the same arc (but then the mon cal would be worth double if destroyed...).

Yeah. There's definitely some lists or set up that are just.....blah.

I really hope that doesn't happen with Armada. I may actually want to play events for the cards.

only time will tell

but I think they learned from their horrible implementation of turrets

Both ships and squadrons have 360 degrees of fire, but the distance and the arcs used actually matter

atm, it's hard to gauge how powerful something will be from stats alone. The Mon Cal, for example, looks absolutely terrifying with Victory-sized broadsides, but what isn't immediately obvious is that there's no way they can stack the side arcs on the same target unless a silly opponent gives him that objective that lets the 2nd player's ship fire twice out of the same arc (but then the mon cal would be worth double if destroyed...).

There's an upgrade card for that, but the second salvo must be fired at a different target.

Gunnery teams on an MC80 with Ackbar as your commander? Yes! Especially if the rest of your fleet are other side-shooters like the Assault Frigates!

Ever since Armada hit I haven't thought of X-Wing. We had a tournament just recently to debut scum but I didn't even think about attending. I feel bad, given that I've given so much love and attention to X-Wing in the past couple of months, but Scum doesn't interest me as much as driving Star Destroyers do.

If the X-Wing waves aren't majority scum, and give us some decent Imperial ships, I might jump back on the bandwagon (especially if said ships are either the Avenger or Assault Gunboat). But if it's something stupid like the TIE Oppressor or TIE Interdictor, I think I can put it off for a while.

I prefer Armada, but I've always liked the big ships and I'm getting in on the ground floor versus not doing that on X-Wing.

I prefer Armada, but I've always liked the big ships and I'm getting in on the ground floor versus not doing that on X-Wing.

I love X-wing, the dog fighting and the small fighters. I love seeing the falcon on the table, the turret not so much. That said, Armada is scratching an Itch that X-wing just doesn't. I like having to plan my moves out, that range/distance has different attack dice and well I just like every thing.....oh oh oh I love the damage deck in Armada. Armada and X-wing together, to me, is Star Wars; I need the large ships fighting it out but I also need the dog fighting

As others have said whats better is hard to say. But for me I am not going to sell off my X-wing stuff but also do not plan to buy anymore. As for Armada can not wait for wave one, and two.

There is a plain and simple answer to this(IMO)

If you're an old school wargamer or naval battle fan, Armada BY FAR. It's outstanding for a fleet feel.

If you're a fan of dog fighting and quick action, X-Wing.

Again only my opinions.