Man, MJ, I think you need to figure out a way to put this game behind you. You have discussed it a lot, and I think the ramifications are a lot less severe than you seem to think they are. You ran into a matchup that due to a strange interaction made you lose in a particularly annoying way. I get that it's upsetting, but it doesn't mean the game is broken. Spending so much energy on the only game you lost during Store Championship season is unbecoming. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see you promoting partial points so heavily before you lost that game.

Well, it was only the second tournament that I had played in, so MoV had never been a concern before. I did note after the first tournament (that I won) Fat Han in a timed match seemed really strong and probably helped me win.

In this case it's mostly dragging on because people are continuing to offer tactical advice on how I could have win the match at time, essentially without losing a ship. Which is tactically impossible. But you're right it doesn't really matter that much.

My more recent analysis has to do with MoV advantage in untimed matches, which is another interesting discussion but tangentially related to the one here. In an attempt to re-rail the discussion, I would suggest that Fat Ships still get a strong MoV benefit in timed matches. In theory the advantage of something like a dual IG88 build should be around 20 points, and that's what I am seeing in my games: about a 30 point MoV advantage in games that I win, with my opponents only getting about 10 points more MoV (than partial points) when they win.

For thematic and strategic reasons, I share a lot of the concerns that phil0 raised, and I think some of the issues are solvable with just awarding half points on, say, large ships 50 points or more? (or 45 or 40, depends on where the problems seem to be). This puts them on par with ~20-30 point fighters in MOV, and while it arguably still leaves cheap swarmers at a disadvantage, those are at least usually pretty efficient, and do have a different set of advantages.

Do you propose an accompanying rule change for IG88A or any of the regenerating droids (I guess that's IG88A also) because they would so dramatically affect how partial points were scored? Corran/R2D2 seems like a huge winner if partial points become a thing. He's good now, but he's probably auto-include in a ton of competitive rebel lists with patial points.

I just get tired of seeing list after list of big, turreted ships in the top. We know that they get an advantage in events due to them giving all or nothing. Why not do something to add some variety into the game?

For thematic and strategic reasons, I share a lot of the concerns that phil0 raised, and I think some of the issues are solvable with just awarding half points on, say, large ships 50 points or more? (or 45 or 40, depends on where the problems seem to be). This puts them on par with ~20-30 point fighters in MOV, and while it arguably still leaves cheap swarmers at a disadvantage, those are at least usually pretty efficient, and do have a different set of advantages.

Half points would be better than no points, but it doesn't fix the problem. It just "moves the goalpost" and makes the timed victory conditions rear its ugly head at different point breakdowns instead. For example, using my game as an example, a 62 point Fat Han still has an advantage over a 60 point Fat Han. Once both get below half it's the same issue all over again. I guess in this case I would have won with 8HP (no points score for him) vs 1HP, but you don't always see games end in such a landslide.

And Fat ships would still get a pretty healthy advantage, even if it's not as extreme as it is now. If that 60 point Fat Han ends every game at 1-6 health (which is typical), then it can still be regularly leaving 20+ MoV on the table for the opponent.

Good point. I gave this one some thought, and have personally settled on a "wait and see" approach. I think most of the fears of tactical issues arising from partial MoV are generally overblown, but still good to be thinking about.

What I'm really curious about is if the Swarm will be making a comeback at all in Regionals with 75 minute rounds. Or at least not being extinct like it was in wave 5.

I went to a couple stores this year that just running regular MOV was confusing for them, add in partial points and forget it.

For thematic and strategic reasons, I share a lot of the concerns that phil0 raised, and I think some of the issues are solvable with just awarding half points on, say, large ships 50 points or more? (or 45 or 40, depends on where the problems seem to be). This puts them on par with ~20-30 point fighters in MOV, and while it arguably still leaves cheap swarmers at a disadvantage, those are at least usually pretty efficient, and do have a different set of advantages.

Half points would be better than no points, but it doesn't fix the problem. It just "moves the goalpost" and makes the timed victory conditions rear its ugly head at different point breakdowns instead. For example, using my game as an example, a 62 point Fat Han still has an advantage over a 60 point Fat Han. Once both get below half it's the same issue all over again. I guess in this case I would have won with 8HP (no points score for him) vs 1HP, but you don't always see games end in such a landslide.

And Fat ships would still get a pretty healthy advantage, even if it's not as extreme as it is now. If that 60 point Fat Han ends every game at 1-6 health (which is typical), then it can still be regularly leaving 20+ MoV on the table for the opponent.

My main goal is to address the extreme cases (and only the extreme cases), of which your experience is a good example, 6 live TIE fighters vs 1 hp Fat Han is another. I prefer to focus on extreme cases, because the game generally seems to be working pretty well. I don't think most people feel cheated if the opponent wins having 3 Blues at 3 Hull each. You know in that case your opponent did something really right or you did something really wrong to facilitate that outcome, and wouldn't feel entitled to 2/3rds of the opponent's remaining live points. It's the 1-2 HP big ships that feel lousy, because it required a lot of work with nothing to show for it.

There's this whole calculus of trading damage for opportunity that makes this game really fun that I think is gone if any damage is worth something for your opponent, even damage that shouldn't really matter. This is an extreme example, but say you've got Soontir Fel against a couple Bandits. Under full partial points, it's arguably better for Soontir to run away because he might get shot and lose a hull point, which is worth the same as a Bandit he might kill in the process. I don't want to play a game that rewards that kind of behavior. All or nothing for most ships encourages aggressiveness to finish off weakened ships. That makes for faster and more fun games. Conversely, the Han Solo and friends losing their last hit point should be more significant than "meh, 7 points".

Thematically, and even tournament play is a thematic game, there needs to be something important about just surviving.

Well, for one thing I think I would make a rule tweak with partial points that if you totally wipe the opposing squad, you are guaranteed a full victory (5 points) and a minimum of +12MoV, to encourage games to finish. So even if you have a 1HP TIE Fighter, if you are the only one left on the table you still get the full win.

Bear in mind that the wave 5 meta store championship winners were about half 2-ship lists. Maybe that will go down naturally a little now that ACD Phantoms got a slight nerf, and all Fat Turrets are weaker vs autothrusters. But I'm not quite holding my breath yet.

Phantoms are still as strong as ever

Often, the simplest solution is the best solution. With partial points, the end game will still come down to figuring out when to run away in certain matchups. It will just require more mental math on the part of players in-game.

It would turn into one HP lost being absolutely devasting for a small base, elite ship. The same problems would exist, they're just shifting slightly.

Being a high-school Math teacher, I'm all for having things being mathematically consistent (having a well-balanced game), but I feel like some people want to take that idea to the extreme, which just makes the game more fiddly, and less elegant.

Often, the simplest solution is the best solution. With partial points, the end game will still come down to figuring out when to run away in certain matchups. It will just require more mental math on the part of players in-game.

It would turn into one HP lost being absolutely devasting for a small base, elite ship. The same problems would exist, they're just shifting slightly.

Being a high-school Math teacher, I'm all for having things being mathematically consistent (having a well-balanced game), but I feel like some people want to take that idea to the extreme, which just makes the game more fiddly, and less elegant.

A good math problem for your students would be to calculate the expected MoV difference between current scoring and partial points for a "Fat Turret" or dual IG88 list facing off against a swarm-type list. Make some assumptions about how often games go to time, distribution of HP left, and turn the crank.

Often, the simplest solution is the best solution. With partial points, the end game will still come down to figuring out when to run away in certain matchups. It will just require more mental math on the part of players in-game.

It would turn into one HP lost being absolutely devasting for a small base, elite ship. The same problems would exist, they're just shifting slightly.

Being a high-school Math teacher, I'm all for having things being mathematically consistent (having a well-balanced game), but I feel like some people want to take that idea to the extreme, which just makes the game more fiddly, and less elegant.

A good math problem for your students would be to calculate the expected MoV difference between current scoring and partial points for a "Fat Turret" or dual IG88 list facing off against a swarm-type list. Make some assumptions about how often games go to time, distribution of HP left, and turn the crank.

It would be great for kids familiar with the game. Unfortunately, it would take days just to get them familiar with all the required background knowledge of the game.

If the problem doesn't mean anything to them, then neither will the solution.

If the problem doesn't mean anything to them, then neither will the solution.

This is why I made a question about velociraptors when I was teaching a class a few years ago.

How much backup battery supply you need to keep the electric raptor fences charged for several hours is a very important life lesson.