Some vanilla Descent questions

By Khellendros, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

As you might have gathered from a previous post, I'm new to Descent, but me (and my gaming group) are quickly growing addicted to it.
I think we got the hang of most of the rules now (after playing a few games with wrongly interpreted rulings, or just faulty judgement), I've found some answer here on the boards and in the FAQ/Errata, but I still have a few questions.

1. In the first Quest (killing the Giant Narthak), in Area 3, there's a pile of rubble of 3x1. Is it possible that that pile is misplaced? Logically, I think it should've been one more square to the left (west), so it allows the spider to actually move around (otherwise it's just trapped there, waiting to be killed), and it would also prevent diagonal passage past the rubble into the corridor where the sorcerer is located, when the heroes arrive from the south (Area 1).

2. Can a Razorwing (or any flying figure for that matter) occupy the same space as a friendly figure (another monster) for purposes of attacking an enemy, afterwards moving off that spot, landing (and ending movement/turn) in a legal, empty spot? It says in the rules that figure can't attack from spaces occupied by other figures, but does the same rule apply for flying figures? Since they can fly across obstacles and enemies, I wondered if perhaps this was a possibility?

3. The hero Steelhorns' special ability is that he can make an attack when he uses a Run action and moves in a straight line. My question was what exactly is understood by "a straight line". Is that only the typical straight horizontal, vertical and diagonal line? Or does that follow the same rulings as Line of Sight for determining what a "straight line" is (basically, if there's a straight uninterrupted Line of Sight to the target, he can charge it) ? We assumed the latter in our game, since otherwise the opportunities in which Steelhorn's ability could be used seemed rather slim, especially with some dungeon layouts.

Khellendros said:

As you might have gathered from a previous post, I'm new to Descent, but me (and my gaming group) are quickly growing addicted to it.
I think we got the hang of most of the rules now (after playing a few games with wrongly interpreted rulings, or just faulty judgement), I've found some answer here on the boards and in the FAQ/Errata, but I still have a few questions.

1. In the first Quest (killing the Giant Narthak), in Area 3, there's a pile of rubble of 3x1. Is it possible that that pile is misplaced? Logically, I think it should've been one more square to the left (west), so it allows the spider to actually move around (otherwise it's just trapped there, waiting to be killed), and it would also prevent diagonal passage past the rubble into the corridor where the sorcerer is located, when the heroes arrive from the south (Area 1).

2. Can a Razorwing (or any flying figure for that matter) occupy the same space as a friendly figure (another monster) for purposes of attacking an enemy, afterwards moving off that spot, landing (and ending movement/turn) in a legal, empty spot? It says in the rules that figure can't attack from spaces occupied by other figures, but does the same rule apply for flying figures? Since they can fly across obstacles and enemies, I wondered if perhaps this was a possibility?

3. The hero Steelhorns' special ability is that he can make an attack when he uses a Run action and moves in a straight line. My question was what exactly is understood by "a straight line". Is that only the typical straight horizontal, vertical and diagonal line? Or does that follow the same rulings as Line of Sight for determining what a "straight line" is (basically, if there's a straight uninterrupted Line of Sight to the target, he can charge it) ? We assumed the latter in our game, since otherwise the opportunities in which Steelhorn's ability could be used seemed rather slim, especially with some dungeon layouts.

1) Nope, its where it should be. That spider is more or less just S.O.L.

2) To the best of my knowledge the same rule apply for flying figures so you can't attack from the same space as another figure.

3) We've always played it as straight line, so N/S/E/W directions and also the diagonals but you have to move space to space. We do not play it that you can just call LOS a straight line and do it. We could however be wrong.

Big Remy said:

Khellendros said:

As you might have gathered from a previous post, I'm new to Descent, but me (and my gaming group) are quickly growing addicted to it.
I think we got the hang of most of the rules now (after playing a few games with wrongly interpreted rulings, or just faulty judgement), I've found some answer here on the boards and in the FAQ/Errata, but I still have a few questions.

1. In the first Quest (killing the Giant Narthak), in Area 3, there's a pile of rubble of 3x1. Is it possible that that pile is misplaced? Logically, I think it should've been one more square to the left (west), so it allows the spider to actually move around (otherwise it's just trapped there, waiting to be killed), and it would also prevent diagonal passage past the rubble into the corridor where the sorcerer is located, when the heroes arrive from the south (Area 1).

2. Can a Razorwing (or any flying figure for that matter) occupy the same space as a friendly figure (another monster) for purposes of attacking an enemy, afterwards moving off that spot, landing (and ending movement/turn) in a legal, empty spot? It says in the rules that figure can't attack from spaces occupied by other figures, but does the same rule apply for flying figures? Since they can fly across obstacles and enemies, I wondered if perhaps this was a possibility?

3. The hero Steelhorns' special ability is that he can make an attack when he uses a Run action and moves in a straight line. My question was what exactly is understood by "a straight line". Is that only the typical straight horizontal, vertical and diagonal line? Or does that follow the same rulings as Line of Sight for determining what a "straight line" is (basically, if there's a straight uninterrupted Line of Sight to the target, he can charge it) ? We assumed the latter in our game, since otherwise the opportunities in which Steelhorn's ability could be used seemed rather slim, especially with some dungeon layouts.

1) Nope, its where it should be. That spider is more or less just S.O.L.

2) To the best of my knowledge the same rule apply for flying figures so you can't attack from the same space as another figure.

3) We've always played it as straight line, so N/S/E/W directions and also the diagonals but you have to move space to space. We do not play it that you can just call LOS a straight line and do it. We could however be wrong.

Movement is ALWAYS square to square.

Steelhorns can move in a straight line on the diagonal bust must continue moving squard to square on the diagonal.

Forward, Back, Left, Right, Diagonal.... just no deviation allowed.

Khellendros said:

3. The hero Steelhorns' special ability is that he can make an attack when he uses a Run action and moves in a straight line. My question was what exactly is understood by "a straight line". Is that only the typical straight horizontal, vertical and diagonal line? Or does that follow the same rulings as Line of Sight for determining what a "straight line" is (basically, if there's a straight uninterrupted Line of Sight to the target, he can charge it) ? We assumed the latter in our game, since otherwise the opportunities in which Steelhorn's ability could be used seemed rather slim, especially with some dungeon layouts.

A straight line is a straight line, no matter if it is horizontal, vertical or any way diagonal; Checking LOS also is done in a straight line, and there for if you have LOS to a target, you can use his ability if you have LOS to the target.

Imho, if they really only wanted Steelhorn to attack horizontal, vertical or exactly diagonal (for example tracing squares like: up - left - up - left - up - left) they should/would have mentioned it.
It now "just" states a straight line, and that is how we play it. Also, i agree that if you wouldn't do it like this, Steelhorn's ability would be much, much less usefull!

Movement in Descent is done by moving from square to square, unlike line of sight which is determined by an imaginary line that runs from the center of the starting tile and the target tile. This means that a figure can only move horizontal, vertical, or diagonal, otherwise he is going to "break" the straight move when he has to change tile lines. Example:

OXO

OXO

OXO

OXO

...is a straight line.

XOO

XOO

OXO

OXO

OOX

OOX

is not a straight movement as the figure breaks his straight move in rows 3 and 5. Yes, you can draw a straight LOS from the top left to the bottom right, but characters DO NOT move along that line. They move by tile.

SamVimes said:

Movement in Descent is done by moving from square to square, unlike line of sight which is determined by an imaginary line that runs from the center of the starting tile and the target tile. This means that a figure can only move horizontal, vertical, or diagonal, otherwise he is going to "break" the straight move when he has to change tile lines. Example:

OXO

OXO

OXO

OXO

...is a straight line.

XOO

XOO

OXO

OXO

OOX

OOX

is not a straight movement as the figure breaks his straight move in rows 3 and 5. Yes, you can draw a straight LOS from the top left to the bottom right, but characters DO NOT move along that line. They move by tile.

+1

And yes, Steelhorn's special is pretty weak. OTOH he is only worth 3CT. Try giving him a reach weapon because that will greatly increase the utility of his special.

His ability is not that bad, as the attack itself doesn't have to accur in a straightline.

Today I've played my first Descent game as the overlord. A really nice and fun game. gran_risa.gif Anyway, some questions rose during play, I post them here not to create a new thread. Thanks for any reply. happy.gif

1. Do armors that don't allow to equip runes also don't allow to equip magic staffs? They both offer magic attack, so I was wondering if this is the case or if staffs are "special" in this sense, allowing armored characters to use magic.

2. With how many heroes is the game more balanced (in JiTD)? I ask this because I noticed that monster scaling is more of a joke than anything else. gran_risa.gif Monsters simply acquire a wound for every hero after the first, and this surely isn't proportional with the benefit a new hero brings to the party. So, I was wondering which is the best number of heroes to play a fairly balanced game. Today we have played with three heroes and, luck aside (like Astarra rolling a "X" with 13 out of 18 attacks lengua.gif ), I found the game fairly balanced, but a single game isn't enough to judge.

3. The hero player wants to know if the orc Bogran serves some purpose or not. lengua.gif He is very frail (as the overlord, I managed to kill him two times during the first turns), and his skill is somewhat difficult to use, especially when there are lots of monsters in a room (he only managed to use it after doors were opened). We also noticed that "jack-of-all trades" or anyway "multiclassed" heroes, with combat dice split between multiple traits, tend to be weaker than heroes with three dice in a single trait, since they tend to use the type of attack they have two dice in and ignore the other, so effectively behaving like a singleclassed character with lower skill. Is this "true" or does the inferior proficiency with more weapons types bring some benefit?

Idarroc said:

Today I've played my first Descent game as the overlord. A really nice and fun game. gran_risa.gif Anyway, some questions rose during play, I post them here not to create a new thread. Thanks for any reply. happy.gif

1. Do armors that don't allow to equip runes also don't allow to equip magic staffs? They both offer magic attack, so I was wondering if this is the case or if staffs are "special" in this sense, allowing armored characters to use magic.

2. With how many heroes is the game more balanced (in JiTD)? I ask this because I noticed that monster scaling is more of a joke than anything else. gran_risa.gif Monsters simply acquire a wound for every hero after the first, and this surely isn't proportional with the benefit a new hero brings to the party. So, I was wondering which is the best number of heroes to play a fairly balanced game. Today we have played with three heroes and, luck aside (like Astarra rolling a "X" with 13 out of 18 attacks lengua.gif ), I found the game fairly balanced, but a single game isn't enough to judge.

3. The hero player wants to know if the orc Bogran serves some purpose or not. lengua.gif He is very frail (as the overlord, I managed to kill him two times during the first turns), and his skill is somewhat difficult to use, especially when there are lots of monsters in a room (he only managed to use it after doors were opened). We also noticed that "jack-of-all trades" or anyway "multiclassed" heroes, with combat dice split between multiple traits, tend to be weaker than heroes with three dice in a single trait, since they tend to use the type of attack they have two dice in and ignore the other, so effectively behaving like a singleclassed character with lower skill. Is this "true" or does the inferior proficiency with more weapons types bring some benefit?

1) Well a staff isn't a rune, so no they don't block it happy.gif

2) The game was designed for 4 Heroes, regardless of what the rulebook might imply. 3 Heroes is okay, but 2 is not even worth it. If you don't have four players for the heroes, have people run multiple heroes each.

3) Depends on the hero really. Bogran is good if you stick with his ranged attacks with a Guard for hitting monsters coming around a corner. But there are a few "multiclassed" heroes who you would be crazy to call inferior. Ronan of the Wild who has 1M/2R split I think is awesome. Nanok of the Blade, from Well of Darkness has a 2M/1Magic split and is the arguably one half of the two best tanks in the game (Tahlia is the other, from Altar of Despair.) But yes, there are some that just flat out stink,like I've never found Lyssa useful. On the flipside, Battle Mage Jaes is pretty hefty.

Thank you! Next time we will try playing with four heroes, hoping to find enough space on the table to put all extra cards and tokens. lengua.gif

Regarding heroes, I noticed that some multiclass are really nice when considering the stats in the upper part of the sheet and the special ability, still they have their dice and skill splitted. I was wondering if this "splitting" gives them some advantage over the obvious disadvantage of having less skill in a single field, since as we played today the only multiclass, Bogran, played a specific role in the party with a full mage and warrior already there, and so his flexibility resulted fairly unuseful...

If you are playing with four heroes, the multi heroes tend to not be good (with exceptions of course). I've found when you play with less, that the multi's can become useful as they can help cover the bases so to speak of melee, ranged, and magic.

Khellendros said:

1. In the first Quest (killing the Giant Narthak), in Area 3, there's a pile of rubble of 3x1. Is it possible that that pile is misplaced? Logically, I think it should've been one more square to the left (west), so it allows the spider to actually move around (otherwise it's just trapped there, waiting to be killed), and it would also prevent diagonal passage past the rubble into the corridor where the sorcerer is located, when the heroes arrive from the south (Area 1).

IIRC, there is room for the spider to move around this rubble. It doesn't look like it because of the imposing corners, but you can move the spider - square by square - legally without ever forcing any part of its base to leave the map and still get through that diagonal section. We've always played that spiders (and other large monsters) can get through there as printed.

I think that spider can easily get into the corridor to area 2, but still cannot go into the corridor to area 1. I guess it all depends from where heroes come from. lengua.gif In any case, the party still have to go past the rubble, and that spider can simply ambush them by hiding in the left corridor and attacking them when they show up.

Idarroc said:

I think that spider can easily get into the corridor to area 2, but still cannot go into the corridor to area 1. I guess it all depends from where heroes come from. lengua.gif In any case, the party still have to go past the rubble, and that spider can simply ambush them by hiding in the left corridor and attacking them when they show up.

Oh yes, sorry. I didn't realize we were talking specifically about getting into Area 1. In that case the spider cannot fit around the second diagonal, so it'd have to walk around the long way, assuming Area 2 is revealed.