"These" bans being the lastest two batches,

• Chester's
• Olcadan's
• Lord of the Makai
• Chun Li
• Forethought
• Rejection
• Bitter Rivals
• Fei Long's Forward Kick
• Juni's Spiral Arrow
• (I feel like I'm forgetting one here)
• "Feline Spike"
• "Tiger Fury"

These were all done in the interest of the block 3 metagame, no? And with all of them rotated out of Standard anyway, I figure an examination in terms of Legacy is warranted.

Chester's seems like just another one of the guys, and gets graped by The Curse Broken just like the rest. Maybe it's a little too good... but worse comes to worse, Bringing the Master to His Knees -> Infiltrating takes care of any problems :b

lolcodan's I dunno. Deals with Emptiness, or just makes Void mirrors funny. I don't think it would be TOO unhealthy for the meta to have it back -- after all, there's already Lost Memories, Impetuous, Start Over and Infiltrating.

LotM again I'm unsure. Whereabouts Unknown is even more powerful momentum generation, Hero of Southtown is usually better recursion (except when Spinta is involved)... but neither has a 6, nor 4 symbols, nor a +1M block

Chun Li definitely needs to stay out. Leaping Commando Kick.

Forethought, in Legacy, is not uniquely powerful. Dark Hado and Vega's Mask blow it out of the water, Psycho Power matches it (although with a momentum cost instead of 2 foundations, and 5 diff). Does it make hard locks too easy? Perhaps

Rejection can stay gone too; ditto Juni's Spiral Arrow. They just make control too easy.

FLFK hardly seems degenerate when Tira's Reverse Waterfall can't be blocked, Ukyo can T1 nuke your hand and your life total, Ibuki blows your board, Adon throws 30 dmg 8th Bills, lalalalala...

Tiger Fury should be allowed back in for sure (if you're going to play a hard lock, it's more efficient to use a card that does something a la Shadow Banishment; if you're not hard locking, you're going to be playing a deck too fast for Tiger Fury to work for you. Right? ).

Feline Spike, I'm leaning towards "leave it banned" -- Kunai/Power Up -> Spike just seems too easy, even with Absurd to put it in check. Unlike Tiger Fury, you could throw this in anything -- imagine playing against Tycho, winning the roll and going first, and he drops a Power Up, some Emptiness and general Void control nastiness. You play a beefy move to try to put him in the danger zone, he Tychoblocks, then puts a Feline Spike down.

Please feel free to discuss any/all of them, suggest other cards that should be banned (hopefully with some playtesting for evidence?), share your thoughts on the legacy metagame, get derailed into a multi-page rulings argument, or whatever

Bitter Rivals and Olcadans needs to stay out. The rest I can maybe deal with.

Myself and Scott Gaines were going to work on a banned list for legacy at sometime in the future and submit it to James

I tested this a while ago - Promo K' with Hop/Dark Hado/Anti K'/Forethought/Spirit of Athens/YWNE is way, WAY too easy to hardlock people. I had opponents hardlocked by turn 3 pretty reliably, to the point where some decks couldn't even pass 0 difficulty cards anymore.

Most of the other bans should stay gone, but a few like Tiger Fury's errata should be discarded...

Personally I don't think erratas should be considered as a "ban" or changed for a different format, outside of that I kinda have to agree, the answers and everything kinda balanace it all out.

I think Olcadans, Bitter Rivals, Chun-Li, LotM, Juni's, and Feline Spike should stay banned/erratta'd. The others might be all right (with some testing, of course).

* Chester's- sure it can come back for legacy, after yoga mastery is around in legacy.
* Olcadan's- not a chance, olcadamn can stay banned.
* Lord of the Makai- it could come back
* Chun Li- far far too overpowered in standard, legacy= far worse.
* Forethought- with all the other turn ending control hack, it stays banned.
* Rejection- can stay banned
* Bitter Rivals- can stay banned.
* Fei Long's Forward Kick- either way its not like there's fewer degenerate loops already in legacy
* Juni's Spiral Arrow- can stay banned.
* "Feline Spike"- must stay "felicia multiple:2"
* "Tiger Fury"- "can stay sagat only".

Lord of the makai and Chesters are fine to come back the rest need to remain banned, also we were talking about Kunai being banned because it causes way too many loops and stupid combos

I don't think there really NEEDS to be a separate ban list for legacy. I had fun playing aginst stupid Kunai combos, I think legacy should stay the way it is right now. First turn kills, degenerate combos, what have you.

However, whatever cards are banned can stay banned even in legacy.

...banning Emptiness wouldn't hurt.

My vote (if I had one) would be for Legacy, if it had a banned list at all, to be separate from the one for Standard. Legacy tends to be at a higher power level than Standard, and some people like playing that kind of game. Also, cards that were excessively strong in Standard may only be par for the course, or worse, in a format where all previously printed cards were available. For example, when I got into UFS, I was watching people win on turn 2 playing Mai / Ibis Minuat / Agohani Geri / Shinobi Tradition. And I'm sure that's not even the most ridiculous thing available in Legacy. Point being that, in the face of things like that, the cards which were recently banned are not even necessarily a step up.