So in the short time I decided to get into Tekken 6, I realized I want to main Jin. So hey, I figured, use him in UFS too! Here you can discuss all matter of Jin strategy, tactics, combos, builds, etc.

For those that don't know:

*Jin Kazama*
3/6 +0 mid block
Chaos, Death, Fire
6 hs, 28 vit.
F commit: Your control checks get +x for the rest of the turn, where x is the number of character cards in your staging area. (According to James, this is always checking, so if you commit him with 2, but make a check with 1, the check get's +1).
E, discard 1 character: Your attacks get +2 damage for the rest of the turn.

Now there's plenty of ways to abuse these abilities on all 3 symbols I think!

On chaos, the you can go with the curse of the ancient mariner combo! I believe Jin raises the cc of the combo E, combined with Chasing after the power and other cards that can mod it, throw a powerful 5 or so attack out!
Fire/Chaos can use Fury of the Ancients or the Execution Rites combo. These make more use of his E, though the F is always useful with a combo! Ascending Zephyr and Wonderworld Comics are good sources of momentum gen. Both of these share 2 symbols with him, gogo Path!
Fire has Dragon's Flame. Strong!
Death/Fire can do Knightbreaker combo, also very strong. Again if it wasn't obvious, this shares 2 symbols with him. So does Midnight Launcher!
Death can do you Minuette Dance. Devastating with his E, 28 damage if you got one character. Brood them out for 32! Death isn't exactly a momentum gen symbol though.

Chaos/Death through Kazuya's support it seems like will get more character card support. For one a card was spoiled from the pack, for an E and a discard, takes back a character from the discard.

Right now, I'm playing him off death with the Knightbreaker combo for the finish. I like Death's foundation base, and they have surprising amount of speed boosts thanks to Tira.

Protoaddict made what looks to be a promising fire build here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=27&efcid=5&efidt=185299

Also, going 2nd once (I do not endorse this in UFS, lost the dice roll), I needed, and checked, a 7 !

Discuss.

I have to say that, even without seeing his support, I am very interested in running Jin. Here are some interesting combos/advantages that I have seen in the works so far:

• +1(min) to all his checks for a turn. This is huge in a meta that benefits from attacking as soon as possible. If your deck is min 3 without Jin, it becomes min 4 with him. Sure, going second does have some fairly strong suits against it, but if going second also means I play out my hand, turn 1, attacks included, I'm fine with that.
• Obvious use with Chaos and Cervantes Tech. Sure he make some of Cerv's recheck stuff not work, but that is fine. I'd rather use Cerv tech to boost my checks and get out attacks. Also very solid Algol tech (Body of Souls, Maliki) and Zi Mei tech (Communing, any attack). I have yet to see the need for any Zhou Daiyu tech, but who knows.
• Fire. And Death. And look, Nightmare stuff. I am also looking at Feast of Souls, All Life is Prey, and Heir to the Storm combo. Push a check with Feast, and use ALIP to boost your attacks damage. Then blow up whatever you committed for the cost for more damage off Heir to the Storm. Super Aggro.
• ????????????????TEKKEN???????????????. Purple Elephant. We have no idea what is in the set (most of us, at least), and there can be any number of powerful cards on the way.

Assuming Tekken offers a bit in the way of momentum generation, this is probably some of the cards that will be in my Jin deck:

Shadow Flare, Wild Storm, Wheel Kick, First Rite, Curse of the Ancient Mariner

All Life is Prey, Heir to the Storm, Communing with the Ancients, Body of Souls, For the Money*, The Hunt is On*

Maybe throw in some Sailor's Rest or Drossel for added support.

-Tinman

Spoiled Tekken Cards:

For the Money
2/5 +3M, All Chaos Fire
R: Before you make a control check to play an attack, that check gets +2. Your opponent may commit 2 foundations to cancel this effect and destroy this foundation.

The Hunt is On
2/5 Chaos Death Evil
E Commit, discard 1 card: Take 1 character card from your discard pile and add it to your hand.

BTW, does anyone know about Jin's release date? I know FFG is doing promos differently this time 'round, but I didn't see/know of a schedule for the releases.

-Tinman

DaiAndOh said:

I don't understand the wording of the bolded sentence. The way I'm reading it is that if you use his ability and have 2 characters out, and then make the check to play a 3rd then your check gets an additional +1 to make it +3 for the rest of the turn. However this ruling, assuming that this is what you are saying, doesn't make much sense as the 3rd character hasn't and will not enter your staging area until after you have cleared your card pool.

No, you're reading it wrong, let me try to explain better.

It refers to discarding characters. You form with 2 Jin's, cool? Play an attack, the check gets +2. But you want some sweet damage on your string of attacks, so you discard a Jin attached. You then play another attack, but since there is 1 Jin in the staging area, the check gets +1, not +2.

DaiAndOh said:

wait wait wait...."E, Discard 1 character" IMO means from your hand (see definition of "discard")"

But i have not seen Jin...does it explicitly state "discard a character card attached to this card"or something similar?

Someone didn't check my thread with all the new promoy-goodness >_>

DaiAndOh said:

does this mean that Jaguar Revolver will now change it's speed/damage every time your momentum changes {it was ruled at one point, that X is set when the ability/card was played} so why does Jin's form constantly look for changes?

I'd like to know this too, not only because I built Jin but because I've been playing cards as 'X is set when the ability is played' ever since Sophitia** came out.

Tinman said:

This doesn't make sense. You didn't commit anything for any of those cards, beyond committing Your Life is Dinner for its ability.

The commit for All Life is Prey is what I am referencing. I'd be committing foundations for its cost on every attack, and at the same time I can blow those foundations up for Heir. Additonally, I would probably be running things like Communing With the Ancients and Body of Souls, which would be committed before the enhance step. They could also serve as fodder.

-Tinman

...never mind.

I've been misreading it the entire time xD

DaiAndOh said:

Jin's Float does not decrease when stacked chars are discarded for his E, The effect goes into play after cost, and then operates independantly from it's source, as all effects do.

It's been ruled a bazillion times in the past that anything that has a Variable of X is set when used and does not constantly recheck. It was a GIANT discussion on these boards for the longest time, and I agreed with the nay sayersfor a long time and I remember this because we lost the rules fight. X is set when used. Period. You have 4 Jins in play and you use his effect, you get +4 for the rest of the turn no matter how many Jin's you lose as the game progresses.

DaiAndOh said:

If I recall correctly, failed2k and Proto are right on this.

I believe (and Antigoth can comment more fully) that was supposed to be one of the changes in the new Advance Game Rules that simplified bookkeeping and gameflow. It didn't actually make it into the AGR 2.0. The closest thing is:

"8.1.8 If a card played from hand has a value of X, that value is defined when the card is announced. If the value that defined X changes after the card is announced, X will remain as initially announced, until another ability modifies that number."

So if a card value is defined (as with Jaguar Revolver) it does NOT fluctuate thereafter (in the JR case, when your momentum fluctuates).

While there is nothing in the AGR to mirror this rule for variables within abilities, I believe Antigoth has ruled that variables in abilities work the same way (they do not fluctuate once the ability first takes effect), and a rule saying as much is forthcoming in the next iteration of the AGR.

And if James doesn't know this (not saying he does or doesn't, but IF), then James is designing the game without really knowing its rules. This is entirely possible. Dave Freeman's designed Sets 0 through 4 without knowing the rules of UFS, and one could argue that he never really learned them (or fully fleshed them out). But it is definitely problematic. Another possibility is that he knows the rules, but the rest of us are playing by different rules; just as possible, but equally problematic.

MegaGeese said:

then anything with a value of X will constantly check. so I could play void nova with 5 momentum, before using the multiple, reduce the "multiple:X {5}" to 0 with solitary assassin, because X is always checking, it becomes "multiple: x {10}" use a second assassin reduce to 0 again void nova is now "multiple:X{20}" because its always checking. same sort of situation as with Jin. oh and rejection would be useless against jaguar revolver since revolver's "x" damage will always be checking the momentum... but this is going off of an assumption that any value of X checks itself constantly, which under current rules {as far as I can remember} they stay fixed to what they were when they were played

ARMed_PIrate said:

The differnece is bolded.

And I'll thank you (not YOU, but you know) to keep in mind that I'm quoting what SOMEONE ELSE SAID. Don't get it twisted - I absolutely agree, this is stupid. But I'm simply pointing out that it's been pointed out in the OP.

So thanks for hijacking my thread guys, take it to the rules forum kthx

Jin is freakin' nasty, I was losing to Dragon's Flame combos (from Temujin) all day today... and Jin can guarantee them on a T1 drop of Communing - Foundation - Foundation, if he runs 0 2ccs. Or hell, Commung+the Temujin card, your next Combo doesn't have progressive difficulty. Mark of the Beast - Midnight Launcher - Dragon Flame, roll straight 3s doesn't matter, eat 26dmg. Sure, it takes some decent draws (maybe I'll do the math later...), but I was eating them T2/T3 consistently (probably just my opponent and his godly luck :b) You could run every mid weapon in the format, and 20 high attacks, and still have 100% success rate on checks as long as you draw Communing and 2x other grey cards opening hand. Nasty...

But definitely my favorite part about him is how he pumps checks for foundations, too. Hehehehe Stand Off

Jin's certainly going to be top tier.

The important thing to remember is that his E stacks, which I think is going to give him the most edge. Unnatural Grace is going to give Jin his greatest edge, as Jin competes with James Hata**, Astrid, and Ragnar for best aggro character.

I just hope Jin doesn't become the new Cody. Although I think he'll be easier to obtain once promos ship out, people were losing limbs to get their playset at GenCon.

Also, I think I might have discovered the truth behind Jin's F.

OP was saying that Hata was saying (I think) that the variable X changes depending on how many Jins you have. The argument is that X is set when the ability is used.

I think I get it.

The F says the phrase "for the rest of this turn." As such, if you form with 4 Jins, it'll be +4 FOR THE REST OF THIS TURN. If it changed due to how many Jins were on him, then it would likely be a static worded "During your turn, your control checks get +X where X equals the number of characters in your staging area", implying X can change with the number of characters.

I've been looking into some of Jin* 's options, attack line-up wise. So far, I have found the following about all three of his symbols:

Fire: Some serious Combo stacking options. Knight Breaker , Dragon's Flame , even 1-2-3 Rites. Some of the key control cards offer a lot as well, Pommel Smash to deal with, well, whatever would get in the way, and Zi Mei's Wheel Kick for indescriminate Stunning. Of course, if you are attacking early game, as you should be, Stunning and commiting might not be as important as pure damage, ie LawnChair. Fire can hold its own, hitting hard and fast, with little to stop it. Allowing for an infinite wallet, offers the most powerful line up, Pre-Tekken(PT).

Chaos: Black horse and my personal favorite. Heralded as lower tier at the release of SCIV and SW, Chaos offers a smaller attack base, but some powerful attack chaining. Jin* , Wild Storm , Communing with the Ancients all allow for constant pressure. Not to mention Shadow Flare , a LawnChair like attack, (with, I know, a 2 check) that can damage your opponents checks , without the stipulation to have an attack in the card pool. I personally want to drop 2 of these T2 and see what happens. At 5 Difficulty, 4H7, and with abilities to boot, this attack offers some power that Jin* can take advantage of. In addition, Chaos can take advantage of the 1-2-3 Rites, and some of the card draw that Algol offers. Chaos is also a viable attack line up choice, but loses out on some of the pure damage that Fire can put out, PT.

Death: Bit of an overlap here, as most of the Fire power (heh) comes off of Nightmare, who also has Death. We also throw (heh) into the mix some Rashotep attacks, mostly Throws, and some Single Combos. Tira and Zhou make an appearence, but their support would be better used in a deck with consistant draw power, rather than pure damage. Though a couple of Lowdown Neb s after a Knightbreaker combo could seal the deal fairly well. Ragnar also offers a few attacks, but seeing as how Rashotep offers just as many Throws, the Ragnar support is mostly grey at this point. Death, excluding the Kightbreaker combo, takes more buildup than the other symbols, needing some more damage pumps to make up for the lack of chaining or raw power.

Wrap-up: Competatively, I would say that Fire, or a well done Chaos deck would be the route to go. Going Death means a bit more of a gamble, as the setup opens you to some harsh starting turns. Tekken offers blah blah blah new stuff blah blah blah future of the game blah blah wait and see .

I am still looking into the foundation base, though I figure that is a bit more wide open, as duel symboling foundations is fairly common. I expect the standard to be a Nightmare/Temujin/Zi Mei combo off Fire, with some Cervantes and Algol support in the mix. Draw power meets Fire power. (see, I did it again)

-Tinman

*COUGH*

Whoops, sorry, did I miss something?

*not my original idea*

Going 2nd

Jin F

Unnatural Grace
Mid Attack with 5 diff or less
Midnight Launcher
Knight Breaker

utilize Body of Souls off Chaos to tutor cards and repeat.

I LOVE this card and I'm really excited about making a Jin deck as soon as Tekken 6 comes out. I managed to snag 3 Jins at Worlds, and I started to make a deck, but I decided to wait to finish it until Tekken comes out because of the early rotation.

I'm not sure what symbols I'm going to run, but Fury of the Ancients is definately going in there. Not sure if I'll run the Execution Rites though.

Interestingly enough, one of the "Jin" support cards card from the set (Mishima Zaibatsu Leader) only has chaos, similiar to the bloodline....

But I still <3 Death Jin! Death has control and aggro, as well as sought after speed boosts.

I'm thinking The Hunt is on, Rivalry Between Sisters, and the foundation that you can discard a char for +4 will make it in my deck....