I mentioned this in a few other threads but wanted to bring it front and center again. Of all the things that most of the folks are hating about Warhammer, I'm finding to be pretty cool. The one thing that continues to bug me is the tone that we're seeing so far, namely the high fantasy/heroic aspect of it.

I don't play Warhammer, never have. But what always interested me about WFRP was the impression of a relatlive grounded (albeit very darkly humorous) fantasy with, well, almost anti-heroes as the protagonist. Maybe this impression is just very far off from what WFRP is though.

Whatever the correctness of my assumptions, the current tone I'm feeling is nothing like that. I mentioned the art before, it all screams super-powered high fantasy to me. All of the careers that Jay mentioned, barring the RatCatcher in an expansion, all sound as if they're catering to folks that like their fantasy High: TrollSlayers, Bright Wizards, War Somethings, and Sword Dancers I think. These are all just power trips. I'm not knocking the style, its just that its very different from what I enjoy and what I had always imagined WFRP to be.

Even in the product description you find, "As a hero, you will take up weapon, spell, or prayer and do your best to combat the might of enemies terrifying to behold." Take up weapon, spell, or prayer? It sounds like I'm about to start Gauntlet. I guess its just that sound of very strong niche protection with lots of cool powers that is just not doing it for me. Bright Wizard...needs food...badly! Having a bunch of elves isn't helping either but I can get past that.

Like I said, I actually really like what I've seen of the actual design of the RPG so far. The tone however, more than anything else, seems more deserving of the, "Boardgame!!!! MMO!!!!", accusation. That's why it appears more like a powertrip video game to me. In this day and age with so little time, I'll be looking to lean pretty heavily on published adventures and such. But I just can't get into that style any more.

I think that I'll have to wait until I see a list of what careers will be available before I pass judgement.

But yeah, I'm definitely getting a vibe of a higher level of heroic adventure with this one instead of the classic: bunch of peasants knee deep in human excrement searching for chaos cultists in the sewers while one of their friends is stuck at the inn dying of syphilis.

Donbaloo I'm right there in the flavor boat with you. Something about Coke2 just doesn't taste quite right. Maybe it's the new label system. It's just hard to divorce my concept of starting off labelled in a s--ty career, being mostly penniless. And if you managed by some cruel joke of the laughing gods to achieve enough power to be called a Troll Slayer...well you earned it (that and the additional landslide of excrement for your forward progress).

Somehow it seems like cheapening the struggle if you start off as a Troll Slayer (even if powerwise you are just a mostly nude dwarf with too much bear grease in his hair).

Having to release an expansion booklet to describe a basic career adequately (Rat Catcher) seems bas ackwards no? "We'll give you War Dancers, Sword Masters, Troll Slayers and Bright Wizards...oh Dock Worker? Yeah that's coming out Q4 2010"

I am quite curious to see concrete examples of more of the meat behind the new setting changes before stepping up or stepping aside.

Callidon said:

Being able to attain higher levels of skill has never bothered me in WFRP. In fact I started writing a Higher Fantasy supplement mostly aimed at the D&D expatriates, trying to deal with some of the common complaints. I have yet to finish but part one can be downloaded from here: rapidshare.com/files/265237046/Higher_Fantasy_Supplement_Part_1.pdf . I think that it is fine to have higher fantasy elements as a possibility in WFRP I just think that starting at low fantasy is important to the settting.

Here here.

I think that's the major worry of just about every "nay-sayer" here.

Where's the bleedin' nasty gone.

If they make a resurrection spell I'm gonna stab someone.

I think you are worrying over nothing. From the sounds of it, Wardancers and Sword Masters will be advanced careers. You won't be starting off as them. I think someone mentioned that there was an Apprentice Wizard career - trust me, you won't be wiping out any armies as an apprentice. Trollslayer has always been a starting career.

Your PCs will be heroes, but this is warhammer heroism. This has always been a game about heroes - the earlier editions said the same thing. But being a hero sucks. It's never like it is in the tales. Real heroes wade through the filth of a sewer while trying to escape the clutches of a dozen idiot cultists. Real heroes trek through rain and mud of the Drakwald for days, searching for the lost tomb of a long dead hero, only to find a barrow mound with a few bronze trinkets and a rather irate undead resident. Real heroes get beaten up by the watch who want to steal the crappy pay from their last job. Real heroes suffer through pain, terror and humiliation before ending up dead, insane or mutated.

Callidon said:

I can't get through the rest of this post until I personally thank you for the above sentence. Terrible, terrible day... that made it much better. I don't normally LOL, but I LOLed.