When a effect replaces the kill effect, when does it happen in the framework?

1. The effect that kills the Character starts.

2. The replacement effect changes it (as a save / cancel "response" even not being a response)

or

1. The effect that kills the Character starts.

2. Save /cancel responses

3. The effect that kills the Character is resolved.

4. Passive Effects starts --> replacement effect changes it.

Can Joffrey get 1 Power because the "death" of Aeron? (Becuse of the replace effect that makes Aeron not being killed)

* Joffrey Baratheon
Response: After a Lord or Lady character is killed, Joffrey Baratheon claims 1 power. (Limit 3 times per round.)

* Aeron Damphair
Lord. Ironborn.
If Aeron Damphair would be killed, instead search your deck for a non-unique Holy character with cost 3 or lower, put it into play, shuffle your deck, and put Aeron Damphair on the bottom of your deck.

(3.21) Replacement Effects
Replacement effects are passive effects that change a part of the framework of the game. Some of them apply to a card's destination as it reaches a moribund state. Others change the way in which game events (such as the effect of a challenge's claim, or the drawing of a card) are handled.

Thanks

Masi said:

Replacement effects are more like constant effects. They don't "activate" or "resolve" in order to do what they do. Rather, as the definition indicates, they change the actual framework itself so that things happen differently from "normal."

Essentially, what a replacement effect does is change the instructions for what to do when something happens. Usually, when a character dies, it goes to the dead pile. But when Aeron dies, you search your deck for a Holy character, put it into play, then put Aeron on the bottom of the deck. It's not that he doesn't die; it's that what you do when he dies is different from what you would normally do. So his effect doesn't really replace the kill, it replaces what you do with the card when it is killed. In that regard, his ability "happens" when he comes into play, delivering the "different than normal" instructions for what to do when this card is killed compared to any other character card.

So there is technically nothing to resolve after the kill effect is initiated. You just have a different set of instructions for how to handle the card when the kill effect resolves.

As for the Response question, keep in mind that whether a character is killed or discarded has nothing to do with where it ends up once it leaves play. A character is killed if the effect that made it leave play is a "kill" effect, whether the card ends up in the dead pile or not. The fact that Aeron's replacement effect puts him on the bottom of your deck does not change the fact that a kill effect knocked him out of play. So since it was a kill effect that resolved, you could have saved him and anyone can still Respond to the character being killed, even though when the card physically leaves play, it does not go to the dead pile.

Here's another way to look at it. When a Targ player uses the Deathbound event "Forever Burning," it ends up in the dead pile. (When events are played, the usually go to the discard pile, but Deathbound says that the card goes to the dead pile instead of the discard pile. This makes Deathbound a replacement effect) Since the event went to the dead pile, was it "killed," or was it "played?" Can I stand my Fairweather Follwers (assuming it is Summer) after "killing" the event? Hopefully, this is a little easier to see that no matter where the event ends up, you still played it. You didn't "kill" it just because it ends up in the dead pile. So passives and Responses still see an event card played.

Hence, the short answers are: Replacement effects do not "happen" within the framework because they change the framework itself. And even though the framework is changed, the usual definitions (kill, discard, etc.) still apply for passives, Responses, etc.

~ Sort of like when you kill or discard an opponent (or return him to his owner's hand) ... he's rather too big to be placed in any pile. It's usually ruled that killed opponents go to the morgue and discarded opponents go to New Jersey. (As for returned to owner's hand... It's too graphic to explain what happens on these boards).