Does anybody know of any scenarios that are more balanced than the original ones, and that can be downloaded? Any of the official scenarios? User scenarios? I'm thankful for all help.

Everything kind of comes full circle doesn't it. Not long ago I posed this exact question and now I'm finding myself answering in what will likely be the exact way others answered when I asked (which resulted in a bit of frustration on my part) and probobly will on your part.

Ok .. here we go.

uhm... define balanced?

I'm going to work on the assumption that you think like I do and refer to balanced as 'equal chance of winning, assuming equal player skill and understanding of the game without the nescessity for fluff like historical accuraccy'.

The reason its an important distinction to make is that A. historically there are rarely even battles and B. its a rare case when two players of equal skill play the game.

Assuming the above however you aren't likely to find any scenarios that fit the bill. In every single scenario I have ever tried thus far in Tide of Iron (either in the books, fan made or in any of the expansion sets) I have found that adjustments are always nescessary and the adjustments are based on who I'm playing against. Balancing becomes kind of a dynamic thing in which you make adjustments from experiance with the game. I'm at a point now where I can read a scenario and tell you who has the advantage and from that I can look at my own skill level and the skill level of my oponnent and determine what sides would be best played (for either of us) and what adjustments would be needed to make the fight more balanced. Its not always 100% accurate but I find as I get more experiance with the game I hit the mark more often.

That's why if I where to post what I think is a balanced scenario (from my experiance with games I have played with my friends), if you played it you will likely look at and say 'What the hell where you thinking, this isn't balanced at all!' For that reason, while many people will create scenarios claiming they are balanced, if you play them you are likely to have an opinion about why it actually wasn't balanced (and with experiance on how you would fix it) which will ultimatly lead you to posting your version of the 'balanced scenario' and down the line someone will step up and say the same thing about your scenario (aka that its not balanced at all).

Thats a mouthful.

In any case, my advice to you (as was the very good advice I got) was play the game with the 'unbalanced scenarios (if you can call them that)' and see what you think the problem with the scenario was, then make a minor adjustments. Over time as you play games you will learn how to adjust scenarios before you play, but initially that can be quite hard.

Good Luck

Gamer4Life said:

Nicely said.

Your assumption is right, I do find your answer a bit frustrating although not surprising.

To me, a balanced scenario is one where two players at the same skill level will have about the same chance to win while a player with a greater skill level will have a better chance of winning. I can't see any reason why such scenarios couldn't exist.

But because I own the game, when my friends do not, and I'm more interested in it than they are, I will probably always have a higher level of skill and understanding of the game, so I can see the point in learning to balance the scenarios "on the fly" depending on who will be playing. Unforturnatly, I don't have the time to play the game very often, so I suppose learning this will take some time. How many games have you played so far?

Jazzist said:

I believe the general rule of thumb is for the stronger player to take the Germans. You won't know your opponent's skill level until after they've played a few games, so don't worry about adjusting the scenarios before hand. During play, if they are really having a hard time, declare devine intervention and let them bring on some reinforcements.

Jazzist said:

I have played about 25 times now not counting test and scenario try out games with myself (which I sometimes do to see how a scenario plays or how certain mechanics not used that often play out).

If your looking for 'balanced scenarios', I can tell you that probobly of all the scenarios I have seen in the game, the ones in the designer series are probobly the closests your going to get. While there are still a couple in their that are blatently historically accurrate (hence striaght up unfair), most of them are pretty good and require adjustments only if the skill levels between the opponnents is really off.

Try the introductory scenario contest finalists. All were exceptional and match or exceed the TOI base game scenarios. Many are up for download. I'll see if I can pull a list together this week, but I do not have permission to post them.

Are they avaliable for download in the fan-made scenario database?

About 5 clicks away: app.fantasyflightgames.com/tideofiron_scenarios.html

longagoigo said:

I know how to find the database. Which of these 50+ scenarios are among the "introductory scenario finalists" that 7times is referring to?

Jazzist said:

Good, that's a start. How about scrolling? I found this: Ormel Farm v 2.0 (Introductory Scenario Competition Finalist)

I'd say that has a good chance of being "among the "introductory scenario finalists" that 7times is referring to".

How about building your own scenario with your friend? Have one of you build the board and the other one build the 2 armies. Then the other player gets to choose which side of the board/army they want. That should give you some balance, unless one of you is better than the other, which would keep things unbalanced.

Maybe I'm just interpreting you the wrong way, but it seems you have a poor attitude toward me.

As for creating scenarios, I'm very interested in that but I want some more playing experience before trying.

Is there no edit button on this forum? Your suggestion to the balanced scenario is probably good as far as balance goes, but I think I want a bit more interesting scenarios than that.

Another perspective on the issue of balance can be found in comparing a game like Chess to the game of Go. It would appear that Chess is balanced, as both players start out with the same pieces and setup. However, the better, more experienced player will always win, so it isn't really balanced. Even with two beginners, the more clever one will catch on faster and the game is still unbalanced. In Go, however, there is a handicapping system that is built into the game and the player ranking system. Between players of unequal skill the board will start with some of the weaker player's pieces already in play. The board, of course, will look unbalanced to the untrained eye, but it is balanced for the 2 specific players. As they grow in expereince at different rates, there is a built in adjustment to the handicap based on win/loss ratios, so games remain balance. For two players of unknown skill, however, neither chess nor Go will give a balance game, just like the scenarios in TOI. The scenarios in TOI are not about balance, but about specific situations where one side may be in deeper........trouble than the other. As in real life, you've got to play the hand you're dealt.

You should have just as much fun building a scenario, as you will playing it out and then adjusting it. It really doesn't take any special skill. And it should be more than interesting enough, and you'll be learning something (by doing).

Easy, killers. The introductory scenario contest finalists are as follows:

Assault on Singling by Aljoscha C. Nett

Crossroads at Lucca by Chris Montgomery

Medal of Honor by Kyle Hawes

Ormel Farm by Bryan Pravel

Chris', Kyle's, and Bryan's are available on the scenario download page. I do have a copy of Aljoscha's and can send it out to those interested. Of course, there is Blood on the Mountain as well (shameless plug). Enjoy! They are all well worth a few plays (at least).

Would you mind emailing me (or posting somewhere) the Assault on Singling scenario by Aljoscha C. Nett? I've poked around the web and don't see it anywhere.

Thank you!

James

I would personally recommend those scenarios in which I have been able to win regardless of the side. These include "Silence the guns" and "Road to ruin" - I think these are very well-balanced and even when two unexperienced players sit at the table, they should have a lot of fun with these.

However, I think some players are very quick to judge ToI scenarios, especially prior to getting to know the game well (including my humble self ). For example, when I first played the "Crossroads" scenario about a year ago, I thought it was just impossible for the germans to win. But hey, some time has passed, I've improved my tactics and gave the scenario another go. An guess what - I won as the germans, although it was quite difficult and overall a close call. I destroyed or heavily damaged all the shermans, and my opponent had to rely on just the infantry for the final assault, which I managed to keep at bay with my machineguns, mortars, and the remaining tanks (a tiger and a panzer IV). However, it was only possible thanks to a very determined forward defense (trucks + anti tank guys for the first objective), and then a gradual withdrawal until the end of the game (which slowed my opponent's advance and allowed me to take out all his armor)

In my opinion, "unbalanced" scenarios are great for introducing new people to the game, and refining Your tactics at the same time. Give Your opponent the "easy" side, and take the "hard" one yourself. Give them advice, or even suggest the optimal ways of utilizing their units. It will give you a tough challenge, but at the same time they'll have a good opportunity to familiarize themselves with the game. You, on the other hand, will have a very tough challenge in spite of playing against a newbie.