http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1502-D-D-NEXT-Release-Dates !

D&D 5th ed will cost $150 (each book $50..no dice..no intro scenario). Beginner boxed set will cover a couple low levels, but contains no "skills" mechanic. It is $20.

How does that compare to what we got all those years ago?

I still feel that $100 is well priced for the core set. While I feel that the contents of the core set should have been different than what was packaged, I think that the price point was well established. Career cards should have been printed in the book and Character sheets should have been expanded slightly to accommodate the necessary information. This would have freed up room for more caster cards, which should have been evenly distributed across all the Orders/ Gods, limited to Rank 1 spells. Adventurer's Toolkit could have expanded to Rank 2 and Winds of Magic/ Signs of Faith to 3. Rules for Mutations should have been included in the core book, even if the cards weren't in the set, allowing them to publish the deck with Winds of Magic.

While I really enjoy the core set, I purchased it a few years after release, when all of these supplements were available. I can only imagine the frustration it caused when players opened their boxes and were overwhelmed with the spectacle, but disappointed with the substance.

Also, thanks for the update on D&D 5E. I've had my head in the ground for a long time. I really get the feeling that the quality of the Beginner's Box will make or break the fan's perception of the edition as a whole. Here's hoping they don't screw it up because I've got a lot of D&D friends who are really excited and I don't want to hear them cry about it

I think the core set was a pretty solid release at a good price point for what it contained, especially given that the adventurer's kit was right on its tail.

4e D&D shot itself in the foot by releasing a book that didn't contain the races and classes that players expected from previous edition. It looks like 5e is trying to cover more bases, and is fitting the material in by increasing the price-point. Frankly, I don't think that's going to work.

Even after purchasing the entire WFRP 3e line I don't have as much invested as a local, buddy GM of mine has in his D&D 4E suite. Given what's in the box $100 for the WFRP Core Box was a great value, and unless you're simply one of our resident haters I think you'd be hard pressed at this point to provide a decent argument to the contrary.

I recently purchased the new Mindjammer (Fate) game. It ran me about $50 but it's an entire game in a 500 page hardcover. Do I think the D&D 5 PHB will offer as much bang for the buck? Doubtful. I don't expect them to combine player and GM info the way Pathfinder or FATE does. I do expect them to string the whole thing along through a series of additional books like they've always done...and, erm...kinda how FFG is handling their Star Wars line to a degree. Not a complaint, really, just a recognition of the reality there.

I may pick up the D&D 5 PHB, but it will be for $30 through an online store. Honestly, though, I'm still in decision paralysis. I'd like to add a d20 system to my collection but I'm stuck between Pathfinder, 13th Age, and D&D 5. The internet is no help whatsoever with this decision so I'm hoping to get some playtime in on each this summer and make a decision.

Even after purchasing the entire WFRP 3e line I don't have as much invested as a local, buddy GM of mine has in his D&D 4E suite. Given what's in the box $100 for the WFRP Core Box was a great value, and unless you're simply one of our resident haters I think you'd be hard pressed at this point to provide a decent argument to the contrary.

I recently purchased the new Mindjammer (Fate) game. It ran me about $50 but it's an entire game in a 500 page hardcover. Do I think the D&D 5 PHB will offer as much bang for the buck? Doubtful. I don't expect them to combine player and GM info the way Pathfinder or FATE does. I do expect them to string the whole thing along through a series of additional books like they've always done...and, erm...kinda how FFG is handling their Star Wars line to a degree. Not a complaint, really, just a recognition of the reality there.

I may pick up the D&D 5 PHB, but it will be for $30 through an online store. Honestly, though, I'm still in decision paralysis. I'd like to add a d20 system to my collection but I'm stuck between Pathfinder, 13th Age, and D&D 5. The internet is no help whatsoever with this decision so I'm hoping to get some playtime in on each this summer and make a decision.

I'm not a resident hater but I completely disagree with you.

I do think WFRP3 is the best version of WFRP yet... however, you're comparing over priced game vs over priced game.

Realistically the $100 Core only got you a "sample" of WFRP.

The scam was the fact that all the basic rules weren't even in one place, spread across products that weren't really supplements but more of a necessity. They really milked us for things that should've been basic inclusions and didn't even include enough dice - then stopped selling the dice lol.

Call me old fashioned but I miss the days where the core rulebook had (well, you guessed it) all the rules and basic classes in it and the expansions were for various campaign settings, fluff and rarer/specialised careers.

I never said it was a complete experience, nor was that the question JH posed as I understood it Is the Core Box a good value for the money? I think it is compared to my other experiences and investments. If you would like to disagree with my personal experience or investment that has absolutely nothing to do with your wallet that's your option I suppose You've been on me like Nurgle to snotling poop since our first conversation so I won't take it personally.

Is it a complete experience? Of course not. This same situation is why I've sunk hundreds of dollars into other systems attempting to get a fully playable, "complete" system. Occasionally we get something like 13th Age, Mindjammer, or to an extent Pathfinder which is completely solid within the context of a single release. Hey, that's fantastic. I prefer that as well. Bang for buck though I was not disappointed with what the Core box offered, even though I was dissapointed with what it didn't offer. I've certainly paid a lot more for a lot less. For the completionist I fear the Star Wars line is going to be a massive investment comparatively, and that will be for modules that repeat much of the same information. Talk about "scam". The illusion of "3 separate games" isn't working on anyone with a cerebral cortex. Even as a big FFG fan I'm not blind to certain practices that are a bit far fetched from a consumer angle. At a bare minimum Signs of Faith and Winds of Change should have been in Core. I can at least agree with you there. Cheers.

Given what's in the box $100 for the WFRP Core Box was a great value, and unless you're simply one of our resident haters I think you'd be hard pressed at this point to provide a decent argument to the contrary.

As Twodogz said, you can love the system but hate the way FFG produced and marketed it. Calling people who did not like the boxed set "haters" is entirely judgemental, inaccurate and childish. Unfortunately I know of far too many people who did not even try 3rd edition because of the price of the Core set.

Still it seems from what we can see from SW that FFG have partially learnt their lesson from 3rd Edition. In fact it could be inferred from the what FFG have done with Star Wars that even they now think that the WFRP Core set was overpriced and badly marketed for the WFRP community.

At this point you guys are simply putting words in my mouth and being equally indifferent, as well as suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect, so I'm going to not participate further. If you'll look closely though, you should see that we actually are in agreement about a great many things, even though we don't see eye to eye on the franchise as a whole. I'll leave you to it, whatever that is. Farewell.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1502-D-D-NEXT-Release-Dates !

D&D 5th ed will cost $150 (each book $50..no dice..no intro scenario). Beginner boxed set will cover a couple low levels, but contains no "skills" mechanic. It is $20.

How does that compare to what we got all those years ago?

Given what I've seen of this charming community I'm hesitant to answer in great detail. I suppose I'll say that $50 for a PHB seems a bit high in my opinion. I'll reserve judgement for post GenCon.

unless you're simply one of our resident haters I think you'd be hard pressed at this point to provide a decent argument to the contrary

Pretty strong words.

If you would like to disagree with my personal experience or investment that has absolutely nothing to do with your wallet that's your option I suppose

You weren't previously talking about your wallet, you were accusing people who didn't agree with your opinion of the product of being a "resident hater".

You've been on me like Nurgle to snotling poop since our first conversation so I won't take it personally.

It's not my intention for it to seem personal mate. TBH I don't actually look at the names of posters lol, so I guarantee you it is completely impersonal. I just disagree with your strong words.

Is it a complete experience? Of course not.

I never said complete, I said basic.

Basic, as in the inclusion of:

- the Colleges and Cults (as you also point out)

- the Halfling race

- Careers like Bounty Hunter or Pistolier

- small things like Mutation, Disease, Insanity and Severe Critical Wounds rules

- Social rules

- Mount rules

The list goes on and on. I'd classify these as Core Rules that were stretched across many supplements. The game is great but the Core was light so they could absolutely milk us.

I've certainly paid a lot more for a lot less

Not really a great point - "it's not the worst".

For the completionist I fear the Star Wars line is going to be a massive investment comparatively, and that will be for modules that repeat much of the same information. Talk about "scam". The illusion of "3 separate games" isn't working on anyone with a cerebral cortex. Even as a big FFG fan I'm not blind to certain practices that are a bit far fetched from a consumer angle.

You're absolutely right, blatant gouging - again.

Occasionally we get something like 13th Age, Mindjammer, or to an extent Pathfinder which is completely solid within the context of a single release. Hey, that's fantastic. I prefer that as well.

The list of games runs much deeper than this.

unless you're simply one of our resident haters I think you'd be hard pressed at this point to provide a decent argument to the contrary.

I think WFRP3 is great fun. I'm not a resident hater and I think $100 for 30% of a game isn't great value.

At this point you guys are simply putting words in my mouth and being equally indifferent, as well as suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect, so I'm going to not participate further. If you'll look closely though, you should see that we actually are in agreement about a great many things, even though we don't see eye to eye on the franchise as a whole. I'll leave you to it, whatever that is. Farewell.

I understood you clearly and did not find you offensive in the least. You at least answered Emirikol's question. At face value the Core Box from 5 years ago is a good investment compared to the new Wizards PBH which traditionally is also an "incomplete" game. Yes, both are pricey and don't represent the whole picture, but at least one gave you some dice and a GM booklet. Pretty simple stuff.

At this point you guys are simply putting words in my mouth and being equally indifferent, as well as suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect, so I'm going to not participate further. If you'll look closely though, you should see that we actually are in agreement about a great many things, even though we don't see eye to eye on the franchise as a whole. I'll leave you to it, whatever that is. Farewell.

I understood you clearly and did not find you offensive in the least. You at least answered Emirikol's question. At face value the Core Box from 5 years ago is a good investment compared to the new Wizards PBH which traditionally is also an "incomplete" game. Yes, both are pricey and don't represent the whole picture, but at least one gave you some dice and a GM booklet. Pretty simple stuff.

That's all I'm saying. If folks choose to be sensitive about curt language that's their deal. They can put me on ignore, I care not. Whatevs. White blocks, man. White blocks.

At this point you guys are simply putting words in my mouth and being equally indifferent, as well as suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect, so I'm going to not participate further. If you'll look closely though, you should see that we actually are in agreement about a great many things, even though we don't see eye to eye on the franchise as a whole. I'll leave you to it, whatever that is. Farewell.

They're your words, quoted.

You've been on me like Nurgle to snotling poop since our first conversation so I won't take it personally.

It's not my intention for it to seem personal mate. TBH I don't actually look at the names of posters lol, so I guarantee you it is completely impersonal. I just disagree with your strong words.

You seem to take everything personally if someone doesn't agree with you. You realise forums are for discussion and sometimes people will have opinions that may not align with yours and that's ok right?

I noticed you're "that guy" from THIS thread. The one who called people trolls for discussing if WFRP3 is a dead line or not (despite FFG releasing no real content for a very long time) and how to improve it for WFRP4.

A lot of us really love and enjoy the game ... but .. (and I need you to stay focused here Shiny), FFG dropped the ball and hung us all out to dry by burying the line. It is possible to love the game and not love FFG.

Not all of us will blindly follow FFG like a Fan Boy.

nice community.

Good times.

Well, aren't we all lively I think we all have lots of diverse opinions that are currently frustrated with FFG putting WFRP into license hell.

Love the flipping tables...reminds me of my last game of Samurai Swords. We've got one player who, when he doesn't get to push the easy/win button all of the time, he flips the table/boardgame/throws dice or whatever.

This whole conversation is like this:

I hope I make it long enough to get lectured and verbally abused. I like a good toss, links to old threads, JH and Keeop GM guides, and long walks on the beach.

For the Emperor.

I hope I make it long enough to get lectured and verbally abused. I like a good toss, links to old threads, JH and Keeop GM guides, and long walks on the beach.

For the Emperor.

I'll abuse you, but I refuse to call you Shiny.

I'd abuse you, but my restraining order prevents me from coming within 100 feet. You'll have to settle for a good cat-call

Meeeeeoooooowwwww.

I'm beginning to think that the word "catcall" is starting to lose it's meaning.

I'm Keeop. I love all editions of Warhammer Fantasy, shake my head constantly at FFG whilst giving them my money, and am generally misunderstood by Europe as a whole. Not fit for mass consumption, comprehension, or general rabble rousing. Now, off you pop.

I'm beginning to think that the word "catcall" is starting to lose it's meaning.

On a serious note, I've learned a lot about this game from both Keeop and Emirikol. Keep up the good work lads. A few of us seriously appreciate the work you've done. Pretty much the only reason I come back here. I neeeed all of your knowledges. All of it.

The way I figure it, no matter which edition you play, the game rules are essentially complete and convertable to any other edition. The only thing that matters now is scenarios and background. There's absolutely no reason why fans can't step up and keep doing that kind of stuff (especially scenarios..and hence why i sponsor the scenario contest every year now).

The availability of the PDFs has made it pretty easy for anyone to get the game now as well.

I also feel that it's firmly in the hands of the fans now. We've been left to our own devices in a lot of areas and it's mostly paid off in spades. Liber Fanatica and the Reckless Dice podcast alone are enough to get you inspired and bringing a great game to the table. Beneath the frustration and obvious lack of reading comprehension there is a great group of folks here making it happen for the people, and that's an awesome thing.

One for me....

One for my homies....

And one for TwoDogz...